Speculation: Do we even still trade Kessel & Phaneuf if we win the McDavid lottery?

[Babcocks Marner]

If you have a rotten locker room environment, you must remove the rotten attitudes.

Anyone who has played hockey knows that sometimes, just a single bad apple can bring down the whole locker room.

IMO, Kessel is a rotten apple. You listen to what past coaches, GMs, and former teammates have to say about him, and it's not pleasant.

People can try to defend him all they want. I am going with the people that ACTUALLY know him, and played with him, over fan boys on HF.

 

[CerebralDevil]

If you have a rotten locker room environment, you must remove the rotten attitudes.

Anyone who has played hockey knows that sometimes, just a single bad apple can bring down the whole locker room.

IMO, Kessel is a rotten apple. You listen to what past coaches, GMs, and former teammates have to say about him, and it's not pleasant.

People can try to defend him all they want. I am going with the people that ACTUALLY know him, and played with him, over fan boys on HF.

I don't know where you got that info from but that is very inaccurate. Kessel hasnt been talked about as a rotten apple or a miserable team mate, cause if that was the case he definately wouldn't be selected to represent the U.S. in any international hockey. Don't get me wrong I do believe he needs a change of scenery but to say there is plenty of unpleasant comments about him by hockey people isn't true. There has been lots of very positive talk about his character, and his will to win. I think his posture and look when it comes to being in the limelight makes him a easy target for negative talk. Let's not start saying things about players here when we don't know exactly what's going on in the locker room, unless you are in there.

 

[Menzinger]

I think Kessel should be traded, but if McDavid is so weak-willed than an introvert like Kessel could be a major negative influence on him (for the record I don't think there is any actual evidence that shows Kessel has bad "character" -whatever that really means anyways) the leafs shouldn't draft him even if they get the chance.

 

[Hunters Rule]

Trade Phaneuf for sure no matter what you get however if we get low balled on Kessel we keep and play him with Mcdavid at training camp and if the chemistry between the two evolves we ride it out till next years deadline and then trade him for cash dump ++++ high picks.

 

[Preisst*]

I think some people feel that McDavid would be a good influence and role model on Kessel and help develop Phil into a better more rounded NHLer.

When Kessel sees McDavid hit, backcheck, block shots, fight and workout hard in the gym in the offseason and the way he carries himself with the media that the positive influence will rub off on Phil and he follows Connor's lead to becoming a complete player.

We need McDavid to develop Kessel not the other way around. People that see Kessel as a bad role model are not seeing things the same way.

The very fact that some ppull think this way is a testament.

I'd rather we just get rid of Kessel, I just don't want to retain any salary cuz the thought of paying him any money not to skate around doing nothing is infuriating, though I do acknowledge it may be the only way we can dump him.

 

[SpartanRock]

We should keep K&P regardless. They are the tanking experts and we need good draft picks the next two years. It's also good in the likely event that Leaf fans and media don't know **** and they are good players who would get traded for nothing.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I don't know where you got that info from but that is very inaccurate. Kessel hasnt been talked about as a rotten apple or a miserable team mate, cause if that was the case he definately wouldn't be selected to represent the U.S. in any international hockey. Don't get me wrong I do believe he needs a change of scenery but to say there is plenty of unpleasant comments about him by hockey people isn't true. There has been lots of very positive talk about his character, and his will to win. I think his posture and look when it comes to being in the limelight makes him a easy target for negative talk. Let's not start saying things about players here when we don't know exactly what's going on in the locker room, unless you are in there.

I am not doing your research for you. EVERY hockey fan that follows the Leafs closely knows this. From Julien, Carlyle, Chiarelli, Ward, O'neill, etc.

Like I said, YOU and I are the ones not in the room, I will take those guys words, not a HF fan Kessel boy.

Here one link that I can find with ease. Arron Wards comments. He played with Kessel for 2.5 years, EVERYDAY in the dressing room together.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/ward-you-can-t-win-with-kessel-as-your-top-player-1.177228

 

[Mansfield]

No, they should both be traded. Not because they're bad apples, or locker room cancers, or "low character players"; because they're both at the end of their prime and going to decline.

 

[Mansfield]

I am not doing your research for you. EVERY hockey fan that follows the Leafs closely knows this. From Julien, Carlyle, Chiarelli, Ward, O'neill, etc.

Like I said, YOU and I are the ones not in the room, I will take those guys words, not a HF fan Kessel boy.

Here one link that I can find with ease. Arron Wards comments. He played with Kessel for 2.5 years, EVERYDAY in the dressing room together.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/ward-you-can-t-win-with-kessel-as-your-top-player-1.177228

David Poile:

“I love Phil as a player. Who wouldn’t want to have what he produces offensively? I’ve read all the things about him being uncoachable, and from my experience, that is not the case. In terms of him having issues getting along with teammates, playing his role and performing for his coach, absolutely not.â€

http://thehockeywriters.com/are-the-nashville-predators-looking-into-phil-kessel/

News flash: every star player on an under-performing team has their character and ability question...until they start winning. Phil Kessel is not the problem with the leafs.

 

[gauseka15]

Rumor has it the panthers really want Kessel, i bet itll happen on draft - it would be a perfect splash for the draft hosts, and oh their wingers suck.

 

[Hunters Rule]

No, they should both be traded. Not because they're bad apples, or locker room cancers, or "low character players"; because they're both at the end of their prime and going to decline.

Well if we are looking at just players to trade in their prime Crosby is two months younger than Kessel and Ovi and Malkin are two years older than Phil...... Dion is 30 and yes he should go for his own good and ours...

 

[Babcocks Marner]

David Poile:



http://thehockeywriters.com/are-the-nashville-predators-looking-into-phil-kessel/

News flash: every star player on an under-performing team has their character and ability question...until they start winning. Phil Kessel is not the problem with the leafs.

Poile? You mean the guy who has NOTHING to do with Kessel and just made a common blanket statement about they guy. Not like he is going to say he is a POS.

You have to say something nice while saying there is no way we are trading for Kessel.
Funny how he says all that, and then gives up the first for Franson and Santo, 2 months later.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Poile? You mean the guy who has NOTHING to do with Kessel and just made a common blanket statement about they guy. Not like he is going to say he is a POS.

You have to say something nice while saying there is no way we are trading for Kessel.
Funny how he says all that, and then gives up the first for Franson and Santo, 2 months later.

According to LeBrun there is alot Kessel lovers around the league but that its difficult to move big contracts, and if Toronto retained then there would be alot of demand.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

According to LeBrun there is alot Kessel lovers around the league but that its difficult to move big contracts, and if Toronto retained then there would be alot of demand.

Kessel is a great player, I do not think they will need to retain, just a cap dump to balance it out. The thought of retaining on Kessel or Phaneuf is not a great idea, it's just too long IMO. 2-4 year cap dump should be good enough.

Phil needs to go to a team where he isn't THE STAR, just a star on the team. Our Media hounds do not help. I think if he goes to Flordia, he puts up 80 points, 30+goals.

His value is too great NOT too trade in a re-build. He is our best shot at a 1st rounder and/or a great prospect. Even if Phil is still great at 32, I don't think he would be a huge help to the Leafs.

I really don't like Kessel, but I can't argue how good he is. He is worth a hefty return IMO.

 

[CerebralDevil]

Kessel is a great player, I do not think they will need to retain, just a cap dump to balance it out. The thought of retaining on Kessel or Phaneuf is not a great idea, it's just too long IMO. 2-4 year cap dump should be good enough.

Phil needs to go to a team where he isn't THE STAR, just a star on the team. Our Media hounds do not help. I think if he goes to Flordia, he puts up 80 points, 30+goals.

His value is too great NOT too trade in a re-build. He is our best shot at a 1st rounder and/or a great prospect. Even if Phil is still great at 32, I don't think he would be a huge help to the Leafs.

I really don't like Kessel, but I can't argue how good he is. He is worth a hefty return IMO.

I think you are angry with the season and want to blame Kessel. I get your frustration, but going after his character and calling him a rotten apple when he isn't is just out of anger. I want him traded as well for reliable strong talent, but I'm not going to bash a guy when it was a handful of players that did nothing this year. Kessel is what he is a sniper who plays fast along the sides and he scores, asking him to be a PF or a defensive player when he isn't, ain't gonna happen. I'm sure most of us would be singing the same song if the leafs had Ovechkin last year with his horrendous play, but he turned it around a had a Hart trophy candidate season. Kessel has been playing with a very good third line centre and hasn't had that true centre he needs to play. For all he has done realistically, it's been pretty impressive considering. Trading him, Lupul, Bozak, Reimer, Phaneuf, is a must in order to change the environment in the Leafs organization.

 

[Diatomic]

Poile? You mean the guy who has NOTHING to do with Kessel and just made a common blanket statement about they guy. Not like he is going to say he is a POS.

You have to say something nice while saying there is no way we are trading for Kessel.
Funny how he says all that, and then gives up the first for Franson and Santo, 2 months later.

He was team USA's GM and he thought Kessel was fantastic in Sochi and obv they have a further history than that

 

[Babcocks Marner]

He was team USA's GM and he thought Kessel was fantastic in Sochi and obv they have a further history than that

Yea, cause kessel was FANTASTIC! Can't argue that.

 

[CerebralDevil]

Yea, cause kessel was FANTASTIC! Can't argue that.

Lol so when Phil is great, you have no issues?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I think you are angry with the season and want to blame Kessel. I get your frustration, but going after his character and calling him a rotten apple when he isn't is just out of anger. I want him traded as well for reliable strong talent, but I'm not going to bash a guy when it was a handful of players that did nothing this year. Kessel is what he is a sniper who plays fast along the sides and he scores, asking him to be a PF or a defensive player when he isn't, ain't gonna happen. I'm sure most of us would be singing the same song if the leafs had Ovechkin last year with his horrendous play, but he turned it around a had a Hart trophy candidate season. Kessel has been playing with a very good third line centre and hasn't had that true centre he needs to play. For all he has done realistically, it's been pretty impressive considering. Trading him, Lupul, Bozak, Reimer, Phaneuf, is a must in order to change the environment in the Leafs organization.

I do not blame Kessel at all for the Leafs failures. He is just a part of it, like many.

I am not bashing Kessel either. I haven't said anything bad about him personally, just repeated what others have said about him, on record.

But I agree with you mostly, I would be happy to see all of those guys gone. Although I feel Lupul will be the hardest of them all.

As I said, to me, Kessel is the only player with true value for a first rounder. JVR as well, but I seem to change my mind on JVR daily. MR, I would never trade, unless the deal was insanely lob sided in favor of the Leafs.

 

[Pookie]

Phil Kessel is not the problem with the leafs.

… either or, Phil Kessel will be 28 by the time they drop the puck next year. By the time the Leafs need a player of his talent, he'll be about 30-32. Generally speaking, past his prime.

Leafs don't need him. He doesn't need the Leafs. Move on.

/thread

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Lol so when Phil is great, you have no issues?

Did I say that? Nope.

Phil is our highest value player. We are re-building.... He needs to go. Period.

I have always said Phil is a great player, has nothing to do with my thoughts on moving him for a re-build. Like I said, if he is still great at 32, he is not helping the Leafs. Lets have this conversation after we win McDavid, maybe at that point I will re-think it.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

… either or, Phil Kessel will be 28 by the time they drop the puck next year. By the time the Leafs need a player of his talent, he'll be about 30-32. Generally speaking, past his prime.

Leafs don't need him. He doesn't need the Leafs. Move on.

/thread

This. As it stands Kessel is an elite player and I seriously doubt he's a locker room cancer. Unfortunetly he doesn't fit the Leafs timeline. Time to move on.

 

[blueberrie]

Phil Kessel is not the problem with the leafs.

He's not an answer, or a solution. IMO if you're not a solution you are definitely a problem.

 

[Mess]

The percentage of people that want to keep Kessel and Phaneuf is about the same odds of Leafs getting McDavid at around 9.5% for both.

 

[blueberrie]

If the Leafs are committed to building a cohesive locker room with total buy in and commitment it's a no brainer to trade Kessel. He's not a leader, has no intangibles, and has had rumours following him from the draft through his entire NHL career about his work ethic, team-second attitude and flawed on ice play.

Shanny, the new coach and the new GM would keep telling the 18-20 yos to buy in with the team system, be first on the ice and last off, and work on becoming more complete players. Yet they'd have a 28yo seasoned NHL vet be the 64$ million example on how to be an exception to all of those rules.

It's not about "poisoning" their young minds. It's about having forming a new culture that doesn't include taking half-seasons off, being content with losing puck battles, organizing middle fingers towards the fans, or doing the bare-minimum to take the Leafs to the next level.

None of the above changes whether they win the draft lotto or not.