Speculation: Do we even still trade Kessel & Phaneuf if we win the McDavid lottery?

[yubbers]

Resistance is futile

 

[ACC1224]

Yes.

As a matter of fact, winning the lottery makes trading Kessel and Phaneuf even more vital.

I don't want McDavid following Kessel's ****** work ethic.

So you basically want to turn McDavid into a lazy unmotivated player?

If we got McDavid I would keep Kessel. Phaneuf needs to go though. Guy is a POS and an overrated ****** defenseman too. Actually no I take it back. Trade Kessel too. Guy is just a floater and would be a cancer for McDavid. He is immature too and not a leader. Shannahan knows what he must do.

I don't get how people think playing with Kessel will make every player lazy and unmotivated. Normal people aren't so weak-willed as to have someone else's laziness corrupt them, and McDavid is more mentally tough than most people.

It's a question that's been asked before and even though some strongly believe it to be true, they never provide an answer. Perhaps they know 1st hand about McDavids weak character? Surprised we've never heard of it before.

 

[Preisst*]

No matter what happens $95Mill Phil needs to go. If anything getting McDavid might make it easier to dump him, as it is now I think we're going to have a problem finding a willing partner to take him. Getting McDavid makes it easier to dump him for his true worth and not the inflated price I'm sure we'll try to negotiate.

I'm not as concerned about disposing of Phaneuf cuz the real problem is the other one.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Kessel isnt 22 years old anymore. If he were going to change his game, he would have done it by now. Julien, Wilson, and Carlyle have all made direct/indirect comments about how they couldnt get him to play a committed team style of game, and when Horachek tried, Kessel got all pouty and started to float worse than ever.

He had a reputation as a one-dimensional lazy floater before he was drafted, while in Boston, and during his entire tenure here. I dont see why we should expect change from him at this point.

Lets just move on from him and form a new core that are willing to support each other in all aspects of the game.

It's a question that's been asked before and even though some strongly believe it to be true, they never provide an answer. Perhaps they know 1st hand about McDavids weak character? Surprised we've never heard of it before.

Read the first quoted post and maybe stick with the real issue. There's an "answer".

 

[ACC1224]

Read the first quoted post. There's an "answer".

Can you highlight it, I don't see any reference to McDavid?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Kessel isnt 22 years old anymore. If he were going to change his game, he would have done it by now. Julien, Wilson, and Carlyle have all made direct/indirect comments about how they couldnt get him to play a committed team style of game, and when Horachek tried, Kessel got all pouty and started to float worse than ever.

He had a reputation as a one-dimensional lazy floater before he was drafted, while in Boston, and during his entire tenure here. I dont see why we should expect change from him at this point.

Lets just move on from him and form a new core that are willing to support each other in all aspects of the game.

It's a question that's been asked before and even though some strongly believe it to be true, they never provide an answer. Perhaps they know 1st hand about McDavids weak character? Surprised we've never heard of it before.

Read the first quoted post and maybe stick with the real issue. There's an "answer".

Can you highlight it, I don't see any reference to McDavid?

Nothing to do with McDavid, but you already knew that. One is the "issue", the other is a "tangent".

 

[Mess]

It's a question that's been asked before and even though some strongly believe it to be true, they never provide an answer. Perhaps they know 1st hand about McDavids weak character? Surprised we've never heard of it before.

If you take a good apple and a rotten apple and stick them together in the same bag.

Over time, what do you think you're going have 2 good apples or 2 bad apples?

This has nothing to do with McDavid's character, this is all about who you surround him with during his crucial development as reports are nothing but glowing and positive that the kid is a good apple. People who want Kessel gone are concerned of the rotten apple effect on Connor over time.

Scorched earth initiative is all about removing the rotten apples.

 

[AcerComputer]

No matter what happens $95Mill Phil needs to go. If anything getting McDavid might make it easier to dump him, as it is now I think we're going to have a problem finding a willing partner to take him. Getting McDavid makes it easier to dump him for his true worth and not the inflated price I'm sure we'll try to negotiate.

I'm not as concerned about disposing of Phaneuf cuz the real problem is the other one.

We would have to get fair-to-good value back for Kessel. I would be happy with a Bjugstad + 1st (11th OA) for Kessel type deal.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

We would have to get fair-to-good value back for Kessel. I would be happy with a Bjugstad + 1st (11th OA) for Kessel type deal.

Sure you'd be happy, but cannot see the Panthers making this deal. They'd be better off with Bjugstad & the 1st.

 

[KapG]

We would have to get fair-to-good value back for Kessel. I would be happy with a Bjugstad + 1st (11th OA) for Kessel type deal.

Im sure everyone would be happy with that. Question is, does he fetch that? I wouldn't trade that for kessel after watching him the last few seasons.

 

[ACC1224]

If you take a good apple and a rotten apple and stick them together in the same bag.

Over time, what do you think you're going have 2 good apples or 2 bad apples?

This has nothing to do with McDavid's character, this is all about who you surround him with during his crucial development as reports are nothing but glowing and positive that the kid is a good apple. People who want Kessel gone are concerned of the rotten apple effect on Connor over time.

Scorched earth initiative is all about removing the rotten apples.

These aren't apples, they're people. Unless you think all Apples are different it's completely irrelevant.

 

[ACC1224]

Nothing to do with McDavid, but you already knew that. One is the "issue", the other is a "tangent".

ok?

 

[yubbers]

The other apple goes rotten eventually from micro organisms and the chemical reaction within the apple once plucked.

McDavid is screwed

 

[therealkoho]

Since the new year:

6 goals in 44 GP. League "leader" in +/-.

He quit on the team. It was so obvious to anyone watching the games that he and the rest of our so-called leadership packed it in big time down the stretch. You would literally have to be blind to have not noticed. Either that, or you assert that Kessel is actually that awful.

the team quit on the team

 

[Mess]

These aren't apples, they're people. Unless you think all Apples are different it's completely irrelevant.

Perhaps you've heard of good and bad role models in life influencing others around them?. How about my kid is a good person just got mixed up in a bad crowd?.

Player development among their draft picks in Toronto have been very poor because its crucial for player development who you have as vets around your young players to learn from and mentor them.

We are entering a new era in Toronto focusing on drafting and developing your own NHL talent internally so who you surround McDavid with is mission critical to that plan.

You seem to be too focused on McDavid's character which isn't a concern and not seeing the forest for the trees around him as to why clear cutting is the best plan here for HIS future development.

 

[Trapper]

Kessel is in his prime, the Leafs aren't. Not even close.
Whoever we draft this year is already 10 years younger than Kessel.
Shanny will stick with the plan, it either involves Kessel or it doesn't. Chances are whatever we get for Kessel will be here when we approach our prime and that could be 5+ years. Those returns will be trending upwards.

 

[BudMaster17]

If we win McD there is even more emphasis on trading as much deadwood on this team as possible for picks and prospects. Plain and simple. Reasoning is two fold.

1. Remove the lazy, losing, zero heart culture asap when you pick up a franchise guy like McD.
2. We need to surround him with age appropriate core to be in a position 5 years from now to have all these guys beginning their prime years together.

Also by removing contracts we can go out and sign 1-2 year veteran leadership stop gaps and trade them at the deadline for more picks/prospects a là Santa and Winnik. These guys will be hired mercenaries to come in, work hard, show leadership and fight for their next contract. Bringing with them and installing the mentally that nothing is given, but earned.

Enough of these floaters disgracing the sweater, tainting the culture and destroying the fan base.
Enough of the over hyped, pre Madonna, heartless era of this teams core.
Enough with spinning our tires, taking a step forward only to take to back and extinguishing the light of hope at the end of a decade long dark tunnel
Enough damn it. It ends tonight with McDavid. It ends this summer with gutting of these soulless, pityfull fools. It ends Game one next year when the passion that unites us all trickles its way onto the ice and into the locker room.

Go Leafs Go

 

[Mess]

The "Detroit Model" which is often referenced as the ideal plan is based on young players being surrounded with the right mentor's and role models.

Waves of future drafted and developed young Wings players continue to fuel the NHL team because Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the positive role models that all these young kids are looking up to and learning from and trying to emulate.

Now do you want Kessel as the role model how to become professionals on and off the ice and how to carry themselves with the media and diet, nutrition and fitness training and learn what it takes to win in the NHL.

The Leafs need to surround McDavid (or any future prospects) with the right kind of personnel to build a winning team in the future as positive role models.

 

[colchar]

If you take a good apple and a rotten apple and stick them together in the same bag.

Over time, what do you think you're going have 2 good apples or 2 bad apples?

This has nothing to do with McDavid's character, this is all about who you surround him with during his crucial development as reports are nothing but glowing and positive that the kid is a good apple. People who want Kessel gone are concerned of the rotten apple effect on Connor over time.

Scorched earth initiative is all about removing the rotten apples.

Exactly!

 

[ACC1224]

Perhaps you've heard of good and bad role models in life influencing others around them?. How about my kid is a good person just got mixed up in a bad crowd?.

Player development among their draft picks in Toronto have been very poor because its crucial for player development who you have as vets around your young players to learn from and mentor them.

We are entering a new era in Toronto focusing on drafting and developing your own NHL talent internally so who you surround McDavid with is mission critical to that plan.

You seem to be too focused on McDavid's character which isn't a concern and not seeing the forest for the trees around him as to why clear cutting is the best plan here for HIS future development.

I'm not concerned with McDavids character at all. I think he is strong enough to overcome the Jonestown like environment Kessel has created.

 

[Stand Witness]

I think the only thing that might change is the potential returns for Kessel and Phaneuf. Still go with the youth movement but maybe we try and pry young roster players as the main piece in return instead of top prospects and 1st round picks.

Other than that, one player can't change the plan. The core has major flaws and McDavid won't change it.

 

[Preisst*]

These aren't apples, they're people. Unless you think all Apples are different it's completely irrelevant.

The good apple/bad apple, rotten apples in a barrel is used as an analogy towards ppull.

Surely you aren't that naive not to grasp that, or are you? I'm sure you are not being obtuse, so help me to understand why it's completely irrelevant.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

You trade Phaneuf no matter the changes in the off-season. Lose the anchor before he regresses further

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's funny that you want an 18 year old to make a couple of guys that are 10+ years older than him better. That shows right there how sub par Kessel and Phaneuf are.

No it shows how good Mcdavid is

 

[Mess]

It's funny that you want an 18 year old to make a couple of guys that are 10+ years older than him better. That shows right there how sub par Kessel and Phaneuf are.

I think some people feel that McDavid would be a good influence and role model on Kessel and help develop Phil into a better more rounded NHLer.

When Kessel sees McDavid hit, backcheck, block shots, fight and workout hard in the gym in the offseason and the way he carries himself with the media that the positive influence will rub off on Phil and he follows Connor's lead to becoming a complete player.

We need McDavid to develop Kessel not the other way around. People that see Kessel as a bad role model are not seeing things the same way.