Do we buy-out Richards and make a play for Stastny?

[Hunter Gathers]

Source to confirm this?

Love how no one saw this.

Was discussed on here before. We saw it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

2016's class is even better.

How many of those guys ever actually make it to FA. Banking on signing some one who may never become a free agent is a complete gamble. Remember how many people were using the mantra "I would rather wait and sign Kovalchuk as a FA".

 

[silverfish]

Management disagrees with you. They called up Miller who is a natural C when Zucc was hurt, however they had Jesper Fast, who is a natural RW, also playing very well in Hartford. So why didn't they call up Fast who would fill the position naturally over J.T. Miller? Something all of us who watch the 'Pack thought they should do, by the way.

AV himself:



http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ra...nce-by-slotting-jt-miller-with-derick-brassar



Back in October:



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ngers-offense-article-1.1486505#ixzz2vgyYXL00

If you're are going to make claims like that, they probably shouldn't contradict what the actual team has to say about him.

Is this post serious?

Where did I "claim" that Jesper Fast would have been a better option over Miller for a call up? No where.

Where did I "claim" that JT Miller didn't deserve to be called up when Zucc went down? No where.

And I did not "claim" that JT Miller has been a detriment offensively to this team. I proved it. With stats. He has six ****ing points in 28 games, and his preferred linemates struggle when he is in the lineup, nor does he contribute to their offense. This despite 72% combined offensive and neutral zone starting faceoffs. Riddle me that, or choose to keep ignoring it.

Jesus ****. This board sometimes.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Everyone arguing me right now is just putting words in my mouth that I did not say, and completely ignoring fact based points that I am making. I don't understand how you debate people if this is how you go about it. FFS.

 

[Ail]

Is this post serious?

Where did I "claim" that Jesper Fast would have been a better option over Miller for a call up? No where.

You didn't, and I also never said you did. I posed the question if J.T. Miller is such a detriment to the offense, why did they call him up, over Jesper Fast, a natural RW who is playing well on both sides of the puck in Hartford? Why did they choose Miller?

Where did I "claim" that JT Miller didn't deserve to be called up when Zucc went down? No where.

Does it matter? If he is a detriment to the offense, why did they call him up to replace an offensive player?

And I did not "claim" that JT Miller has been a detriment offensively to this team. I proved it. With stats. He has six ****ing points in 28 games, and his preferred linemates struggle when he is in the lineup, nor does he contribute to their offense. This despite 72% combined offensive and neutral zone starting faceoffs. Riddle me that, or choose to keep ignoring it.

Proof in your mind. Again, management disagrees or they would have called up Fast instead.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't, learn to read.

 

[silverfish]

You didn't, and I also never said you did. I posed the question if J.T. Miller is such a detriment to the offense, why did they call him up, over Jesper Fast, a natural RW who is playing well on both sides of the puck in Hartford? Why did they choose Miller?

Does it matter? If he is a detriment to the offense, why did they call him up to replace an offensive player?

Proof in your mind. Again, management disagrees or they would have called up Fast instead.

I didn't, learn to read.

Proof in my mind!?! Come on, dude.

Also, I love how you say "learn to read" when you quote a fact-based argument from me, and say it's "proof in my mind". I love this place.

Here's a fun statistic...

Miller's ice time charts clock in at playing with Pouliot 47% of the time, and Brassard 40.9% of the time.

Miller has 6 points in 28 games this season.

In the 28 games Miller has played for the Rangers this season:

Brassard: 5 goals, 8 assists (23 points in the other 36 games)
Pouliot: 8 goals, 4 assists (1 scratch) (12 points in the other 35 games).

Miller had an assist on 2 Brassard goals, and Pouliot had an assist on 1 Miller goal. So of those combined 25 points that Brass and Pouliot put up in games that Miller played in, despite being his most heavily used line-mates, Miller has contributed a goal or assist on just 3 of those 25 points.

(Can you guys tell how slow of a day it is at work for me? )

And you did put words in my mouth, because you pick-pocketed a different argument, and made it seem like you were rebutting a point I made, when I never did.

Just because Miller is the best option for a call up in terms of offense, doesn't mean that he is actually a good call up. He has not shown any consistency in terms of offense at the NHL level. He has 6 points in 28 NHL games this season. His preferred linemates struggle offensively when he is in the lineup. When his preferred linemates do put up points when JT is in the lineup, JT does not contribute to those points.

He is a detriment to the offense currently.

 

[Ail]

Did you, or did you not post:

I've shown that Miller, today, is in fact a detriment to this team offensively when he is in the lineup. It's there.

To which I replied that management does not seem to agree with. How is that pick pocketing? You can disagree with that, and say that they only called him up because he was the best available option, (also not the case, since if he was not going to help the offense at all they would have chosen Fast instead) but don't say I'm misrepresenting what you said.

Again, why would they say they want to call-up someone who can fill an offensive roll without shuffling the lines, and then call-up a guy that has been a "detriment" to their offense during his tenure with the Rangers? You can point to those stats and say what you want about him, but it doesn't match-up with what the team is saying and doing. I sincerely doubt the coach or his line-mates see him as a "detriment" to their offense.

 

[silverfish]

Did you, or did you not post:

To which I replied that management does not seem to agree with. How is that pick pocketing? You can disagree with that, and say that they only called him up because he was the best available option, (also not the case, since if he was not going to help the offense at all they would have chosen Fast instead) but don't say I'm misrepresenting what you said.

Again, why would they say they want to call-up someone who can fill an offensive roll without shuffling the lines, and then call-up a guy that has been a "detriment" to their offense during his tenure with the Rangers? You can point to those stats and say what you want about him, but it doesn't match-up with what the team is saying and doing. I sincerely doubt the coach or his line-mates see him as a "detriment" to their offense.

"Did you, or did you not post" and then you quote me. That's like the equivalent of asking someone if they're awake. Thank you for talking down to me like I'm an 11 year old.

But you are misrepresenting what I said. Because I am not disagreeing that Miller is the best option available in terms of depth offense for the Rangers. That in itself is a GIANT problem that the team has. They did not call up Fast, because Miller is the better option. Not a good option, but the better option.

Miller has gotten chances this season, and the facts show that he is not producing. And not only is he not producing, but his linemates produce less with him, than without him. This, I feel, is not debatable as I am the only one bringing facts to the table in this debate. You brought quotes by management and the coaching staff, which I appreciate, but I also agree with. And will again say, that the fact that JT Miller is in fact the Rangers best depth-offensive call up right now is in itself a HUGE problem.

If you can show me stats and facts, not quotes, that Miller helps the New York Rangers offense, I'm open to listening. What I see is a player with 6 points in 28 games and a negative relative corsi rating despite 72% faceoff starts outside the defensive zone.

Everyone is ****ting on Dorsett these days, but ya know what? DD recorded 9 points in 24 games with Columbus last season. By that margin, and the respect being given to JT, I think Dorsett should be a full-time third-liner, too.

 

[Thesensation19*]

So silly to assume Stastny is ripe for the taking...

We should buy out Richards regardless of whose available. If this is the only time we can buy him out through amnesty than we better do it simply because hes not worth that cap hit for the next couple of years.

Statsny may not even be available. There talks to resign him in Colorado lately.

 

[Leonardo87]

So silly to assume Stastny is ripe for the taking...

We should buy out Richards regardless of whose available. If this is the only time we can buy him out through amnesty than we better do it simply because hes not worth that cap hit for the next couple of years.

Statsny may not even be available. There talks to resign him in Colorado lately.

As I said before, why does it have to be an Elite Center? We have 6 Centers now, why not go after any Elite forward in general, they don't have to be a center. Vanek might be available for the right price unless he has his heart set on Minnesota.

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

So silly to assume Stastny is ripe for the taking...

We should buy out Richards regardless of whose available. If this is the only time we can buy him out through amnesty than we better do it simply because hes not worth that cap hit for the next couple of years.

Statsny may not even be available. There talks to resign him in Colorado lately.

Yes, buy Richards out regardless.

I'm on board with the Vanek idea, too. Though as posted earlier it would create an issue w/ reg. Pouliot or even Hagelin.

 

[eco's bones]

So silly to assume Stastny is ripe for the taking...

We should buy out Richards regardless of whose available. If this is the only time we can buy him out through amnesty than we better do it simply because hes not worth that cap hit for the next couple of years.

Statsny may not even be available. There talks to resign him in Colorado lately.

Very true. And even if he is available he just might sign with someone else.

 

[TheTakedown]

As I said before, why does it have to be an Elite Center? We have 6 Centers now, why not go after any Elite forward in general, they don't have to be a center. Vanek might be available for the right price unless he has his heart set on Minnesota.

Yes, buy Richards out regardless.

I'm on board with the Vanek idea, too. Though as posted earlier it would create an issue w/ reg. Pouliot or even Hagelin.

I like this thinking... we have an OK centerman 1/2 punch in Stepan/Brassard... Moving Miller to 3rd line Center duties gives us OK depth...

Not Great, but OK depth... which is fine, as long as wingers can pull the weight.

Nash (who I think needs to be traded personally)
Zucc
Kreider
Hagelin
Pouliot
MSL

That's GREAT winger depth. Now say we replace Hagelin/Pouliot with Vanek, maybe send one of them somewhere for an additional 2C/3C piece (something like Grabovski, or Derek Roy), or maybe even to recoup some of the draft picks we lost in the MSL trade...

Best case scenario, you can trade for Kesler, which changes things up a bit.

Not too bad of a lineup w/o Kesler

Vanek-Stepan-MSL
Kreider-*2C Acquried in Trade*-Nash
Hagelin/Pouliot-Brassard-Zucc
Carcillo-Boyle-Moore

W/Kesler

Vanek-Kesler-Nash
Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin/Pouliot-Brassard-Zucc
Carcillo-Boyle-Moore

Again, not great down the middle, but that is some awesome Winger Depth... I'm still upset about building around Nash. I understand he's a complementary player, but beyond the bits and pieces of defense he provides, as well as half of his goals being either goals we score in a blowout, or goals that simply don't matter much, I think he's a waste of a player/roster spot. I'd personally be OK with hanging onto $2.5M of his Salary, shipping him out for a decent roster player and 2 picks.

 

[Trxjw]

I'm not so sure that's "great" winger depth when the 3 best wingers all play the same position. It would be nice to have some balance.

Vanek is a great goal scorer, but he provides nothing else. He'll also be another $7M+ contract on the books. The Rangers need to suck it up and make a trade, IMO. You can't make trades like the MSL deal, which are clearly "win now" moves, and then make all of your valuable prospects untouchable.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm not so sure that's "great" winger depth when the 3 best wingers all play the same position. It would be nice to have some balance.

Vanek is a great goal scorer, but he provides nothing else. He'll also be another $7M+ contract on the books. The Rangers need to suck it up and make a trade, IMO. You can't make trades like the MSL deal, which are clearly "win now" moves, and then make all of your valuable prospects untouchable.

Agreed.

Everyone was so proud that they kept all the prospects in the MSL trade. Why? Shouldn't the organization be evaluating these prospects and have a pretty good idea if they have a future with the organization?

Take a guy like McIlrath. Can the team still sell him as an emerging former top 10 pick in a package for a center?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Agreed.

Everyone was so proud that they kept all the prospects in the MSL trade. Why? Shouldn't the organization be evaluating these prospects and have a pretty good idea if they have a future with the organization?

Take a guy like McIlrath. Can the team still sell him as an emerging former top 10 pick in a package for a center?

I would be very open to that.

 

[Leonardo87]

Since the St. Louis trade, I don't think Richards has even one point, and even if he goes on a tear the last 15 games, his numbers are still going to be around the mid-50's which is good if you get paid around 5 million a year and are a 2nd liner, but he makes closer to 7 Million is suppose to be our 1C, and the Rangers have that for another 6 years after this one.

 

[Bluenote13]

Calgary, Dallas, Edmonton, and a few others would line up to take a shot at MCI. I don't think that's changed, but the window is gonna close eventually.

I know it's weird coming from me but, I like the restraint they've had with the kid. But I'm still not thrilled with the overall stubbornness to make deals while the irons hot. Not sure if this is the right time cause I don't know who/what was being offered. This team could use the size and skill up the middle (and other areas upfront).

As far as Brad Richards goes, I hope they know when to fold'em.

 

[Trxjw]

Agreed.

Everyone was so proud that they kept all the prospects in the MSL trade. Why? Shouldn't the organization be evaluating these prospects and have a pretty good idea if they have a future with the organization?

Take a guy like McIlrath. Can the team still sell him as an emerging former top 10 pick in a package for a center?

It might have to happen that way. McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Moore and Klein are all but guaranteed to be here next season. Retain Stralman, or sign a guy like Niskanen, and there's really nowhere for McIlrath to fit. Now, they could hang onto him and hope he continues to climb, and eventually pushes someone out of the lineup, but that's not going to help them next year as much as a scoring center or scoring winger would.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

And I did not "claim" that JT Miller has been a detriment offensively to this team. I proved it. With stats. He has six ****ing points in 28 games, and his preferred linemates struggle when he is in the lineup, nor does he contribute to their offense. This despite 72% combined offensive and neutral zone starting faceoffs. Riddle me that, or choose to keep ignoring it.

Playing 28 games with streaky forwards like Poo and Brassard isn't a large enough sample to accurately label Miller as anything yet. You know damn well he's going to produce more than that over a full year, especially if he has linemates that compliment his game. You're trying to run with stats that don't represent anything.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Agreed.

Everyone was so proud that they kept all the prospects in the MSL trade. Why? Shouldn't the organization be evaluating these prospects and have a pretty good idea if they have a future with the organization?

Take a guy like McIlrath. Can the team still sell him as an emerging former top 10 pick in a package for a center?

The really crazy thing is, IMO, the two biggest needs this team has—a #1 center and a puck-moving defenseman—are seemingly the hardest to find and two things the Rangers have been looking for for the better part of a decade.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The really crazy thing is, IMO, the two biggest needs this team has—a #1 center and a puck-moving defenseman—are seemingly the hardest to find and two things the Rangers have been looking for for the better part of a decade.

IMO these 2 components need to be here before this team moves forward in any tangible way.

I don't think the franchise has been creative or diligent enough in addressing these critical needs.

 

[Thesensation19*]

Wouldnt mind trading Nash. Dont see him moving anywhere though.
Trade Nash to Detroit since Babcock loves him so much lol.

However, I bet Babcock would win a Stanley Cup with him.

I wouldnt mind getting Stastny for like 6.85, 4 years. Im hesitant to give him more than 3/4. 6.6 he makes now and he hasnt earned anything more than 6.85 due to inconsistent play in this contract

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Wouldnt mind trading Nash. Dont see him moving anywhere though.
Trade Nash to Detroit since Babcock loves him so much lol.

However, I bet Babcock would win a Stanley Cup with him.

I wouldnt mind getting Stastny for like 6.85, 4 years. Im hesitant to give him more than 3/4. 6.6 he makes now and he hasnt earned anything more than 6.85 due to inconsistent play in this contract

Sather went down the path of blowing up his only conference finals team in pursuit of Nash. I doubt he gives up on him this early.

....although anything can happen

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Wouldnt mind trading Nash. Dont see him moving anywhere though.
Trade Nash to Detroit since Babcock loves him so much lol.

However, I bet Babcock would win a Stanley Cup with him.

I wouldnt mind getting Stastny for like 6.85, 4 years. Im hesitant to give him more than 3/4. 6.6 he makes now and he hasnt earned anything more than 6.85 due to inconsistent play in this contract

Trade Nash for Nyquist, Tatar and a 1st

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Richards can pull two Game 7 guarantee hat tricks. He's getting bought out. End of story.