Do the Wings trade for a defender?

[lomekian]

It happens, I know I come across regularly like a dick when I don't mean to. I probably made too many assumptions about your intent.

And while I agree that some folks are probably a little more... overboard, in what they think will ultimately help the team, I do try to view it all in the lens of posters ultimately wanting the team to succeed and do well. That said, it is an IBB, and people are going to be a bit over the top, at times. A proverbial timeout corner (in terms of not responding when you don't think it'll be productive) is probably the best way to go in that case. Cheers.

You are, of course correct. I just see some posters on here who need to remember that we all support the same team, even if we disagree. There are a handful I won't respond to, because its just not worth it. I only comment on the posts by those who have given the impression of being able to deal with disagreement without turning into massive keyboard warriors. I also just think its healthy for a fanbase to have people who accentuate the positives!

I am lucky enough that most teams I support in most sports have been proportionately more successful with me as a fan than not, and I'd rather support a team that aims for success, even with limited results than discards the best part of a decade in the promise of jam tomorrow. For most people, that tomorrow never comes if you abandon the things that brought you success previously. Of course, Holland's lack of trading and over-loyalty to the mediocre can and should also be seen as a deviation from the successful model.

I also like to see the best in people who have shown positives before. My stance is wait for people to actually fail before you label them a failure. The owners think the streak is worth something significant. So do I. Right now, its not very sexy. If the cap system remains a 20+ year streak will seem very very sexy indeed in retrospect.

 

[obey86]

In each team's last 3 playoff appearances, they played in the following number of total games:

Boston 41
Philadelphia 24
Ottawa 23
Detroit 17

To each his own, but I'm not sure what metrics you're basing things on to claim that other teams wouldn't be any more competitive.

Nice selective cherry picking of stats, using last 3 "appearances" lol.

To show how silly the cherry picking is, Detroit would be 1st on this list if they had MISSED the playoffs for the past 5 seasons.

 

[lomekian]

All good points. There are some that I read that it just blows my mind that someone who is ostensibly a fan of a team would be so vehement in wanting the team to fail. And would want signings to blow up in management's faces to "make them pay for being stupid". I want Frans Nielsen to come here and be awesome. I hope Vanek pots 40. I don't want to be able to say "I told you so, that was a bad idea".

Couldn't agree more. I didn't like the Richard's or Weiss signings or even the likes of Uwe Krupp going back a while. But I sure as hell wanted to proved wrong. As I was with Freddy Oluason.

I found watching the team last year hard work (even harder when the games start past midnight at my local time), and the team looked the most lost in my 26 years of being a wings fan. But I don't want Blashill canned. He's earned his shot at his dream job, and hopefully will prove that he can adjust his AHL approach to this level, though I have some doubts.

At the end of the day, there are always different measures of short term success and different ways to achieve each measure. I am happy my team is trying the less obvious approach. It is of course, harder, but if the streak reaches 40 years with 2 or 3 more cup wins, Holland will be a hero.

I always get irritated by people who assume their viewpoint is the only valid one, to the point of wanting other approaches to fail. Particularly in an environment where none of us can influence the approach or the outcome and no-one with any influence even knows we exist!

So then we need the help.

Of all the signings, the Vanek one makes the most sense to me. If I was going to make a list of what our top 6 is missing, Vanek would check most of the boxes.

Agreed. He has some size and can finish. The wings miss so many gilt-edged chances that if enough fall to Vanek he could pot 20-30. Last year was his worst ever season i the NHL and Only 2 wings players had better shooting %'s. His career shooting % is better than anyone to suit up for the wings since our all star roster nearly 15 years ago.

Our shooting % bar Dats, AA and 1 season each of Nike and Tats has been awful for a long time and our shots to attempts ratio is poor league wise.

If Detroit doesn't make it, I don't care who the matchup is. There is no team that we battle with for that spot that I'm interested in seeing.

Given similar odds, I want the Wings in the playoffs rather than having to watch Boston, Philly, or Ottawa. The good, entertaining matchups are higher up on the board.

Indeed. If its the Wings I can get involved no matter how poor the games. If its not the wings I'm only watching if its high level stuff or a serious rivalry

In each team's last 3 playoff appearances, they played in the following number of total games:

Boston 41
Philadelphia 24
Ottawa 23
Detroit 17

To each his own, but I'm not sure what metrics you're basing things on to claim that other teams wouldn't be any more competitive.

Ah! but ours have at least been consecutive. I'm really not that excited about comparing to Ottowa, Philly and Boston 3,4 or even 5 year ago with totally different rosters.

I'd much rather be poor in the playoffs than miss them by a handful of points.

 

[TheOtherOne]

In each team's last 3 playoff appearances, they played in the following number of total games:

Boston 41
Philadelphia 24
Ottawa 23
Detroit 17

To each his own, but I'm not sure what metrics you're basing things on to claim that other teams wouldn't be any more competitive.

In the Maple Laffs' last 3 playoff appearances, they played 27 games.

In the Blue Jackets' last 3 playoff appearances, they played... infinity games? Sorry I'm not sure how that one works.

 

[Dotter]

There really isn't any other kind of businessman.

And I'm getting the feeling that the new generation of Illitch don't have the same priorities as Mike.

I would say it might also be personal for Mike and Co. to keep the streak alive. He is the owner of the "Hot n Ready" which means he has a clear understanding on the 21st century mindset; instant gratification.

Folks today have no patience, they want it "NOW! NOW! NOW!". And Mike and Co. (as millionaires who built their business model on this) know for sure.

*Some* fans expect to go to a hockey rink any given year and see their team walk away with a Stanley Cup and anything less is unacceptable.... so burn it down! "NOW! NOW! NOW!".

That's not how it works. Not in the salary cap era. I think the general consensus is it takes 8 to 10 years to completely rebuild. So even if Mike & Co. instruct Ken Holland to deviate from their plan and "go in full tank mode", they'll actually be worse off for it. As it could take 10 years to right the ship, and even then there is no guarantees. Wings right now have the pieces to make the playoffs. I think it was last year they were a bounce away from beating the eventual ECF champs and a few years before that were a bounce away from beating the eventual SC champs.

I'm with Mike & Co.,, make the playoffs and see what happens. Atleast keep the streak alive. I am proud to witness the streak in my lifetime and I want nothing more than to see it continue.

I want no part of the instant gratification group. Don't put me on the "burn It Down" list.

 

[jkutswings]

In the Maple Laffs' last 3 playoff appearances, they played 27 games.

In the Blue Jackets' last 3 playoff appearances, they played... infinity games? Sorry I'm not sure how that one works.

The point is that the Wings are very good at being an easy exit, because they just don't have the horses. "Get in, and anything can happen" simply isn't true for this roster.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

All good points. There are some that I read that it just blows my mind that someone who is ostensibly a fan of a team would be so vehement in wanting the team to fail. And would want signings to blow up in management's faces to "make them pay for being stupid". I want Frans Nielsen to come here and be awesome. I hope Vanek pots 40. I don't want to be able to say "I told you so, that was a bad idea".

i dont think their is anything wrong at this point with hoping some of hollands moves blow up in his face or that we dont make the playoffs this year

none of those people who want that dont want to see the team succeed, what i would say is this.. they want to see the team succeed more than most BUT long term and not just tokens of one year success which is really the direction the club at the moment seems to be leaning(for one reason or another)

sometimes in sports as in life you need to fall down before you cant get yourself standing back up straight and its not a bad thing when that happens

 

[Classicnamesup]

Some have gotten to the point where the team completely collapsing into itself is the only way to see them move forward. This treading water has not provided anything but a degrading on ice product and a slowly slipping margin on the playoff streak

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I would say it might also be personal for Mike and Co. to keep the streak alive. He is the owner of the "Hot n Ready" which means he has a clear understanding on the 21st century mindset; instant gratification.

Folks today have no patience, they want it "NOW! NOW! NOW!". And Mike and Co. (as millionaires who built their business model on this) know for sure.

*Some* fans expect to go to a hockey rink any given year and see their team walk away with a Stanley Cup and anything less is unacceptable.... so burn it down! "NOW! NOW! NOW!".

That's not how it works. Not in the salary cap era. I think the general consensus is it takes 8 to 10 years to completely rebuild. So even if Mike & Co. instruct Ken Holland to deviate from their plan and "go in full tank mode", they'll actually be worse off for it. As it could take 10 years to right the ship, and even then there is no guarantees. Wings right now have the pieces to make the playoffs. I think it was last year they were a bounce away from beating the eventual ECF champs and a few years before that were a bounce away from beating the eventual SC champs.

I'm with Mike & Co.,, make the playoffs and see what happens. Atleast keep the streak alive. I am proud to witness the streak in my lifetime and I want nothing more than to see it continue.

I want no part of the instant gratification group. Don't put me on the "burn It Down" list.

All of that mediocrity blends together over time, doesn't it.

 

[jkutswings]

Are we now handing out participation awards for ALMOST beating somebody in the playoffs? Wow, looks like Holland was right. Winning is boring...ALMOST winning is where the real excitement is at.

 

[Frank8]

Are we now handing out participation awards for ALMOST beating somebody in the playoffs? Wow, looks like Holland was right. Winning is boring...ALMOST winning is where the real excitement is at.

I've been trying in vain to get this point across on the Sens board. Deaf ears. The Sens are a highly competitive team with a rockstar coach, held back only by injuries, apparently...

 

[Ezekial]

The point is that the Wings are very good at being an easy exit, because they just don't have the horses. "Get in, and anything can happen" simply isn't true for this roster.

I still don't understand your initial reasoning.

Nothing's an easier out than missing the playoffs.

 

[Dotter]

Are we now handing out participation awards for ALMOST beating somebody in the playoffs? Wow, looks like Holland was right. Winning is boring...ALMOST winning is where the real excitement is at.

It's more exciting than watching your team pick 14th overall. I'd rather watch an extra 2 weeks of hockey (playoff hockey) and draft Dylan Larkin.

But to each of their own....

 

[Vatican Roulette]

i dont think their is anything wrong at this point with hoping some of hollands moves blow up in his face or that we dont make the playoffs this year

none of those people who want that dont want to see the team succeed, what i would say is this.. they want to see the team succeed more than most BUT long term and not just tokens of one year success which is really the direction the club at the moment seems to be leaning(for one reason or another)

sometimes in sports as in life you need to fall down before you cant get yourself standing back up straight and its not a bad thing when that happens

Agreed.

I want to contend, I want young phenoms and a team that grows together.

Long term this team isn't building anything.

 

[DanZ]

Detroit has to make a trade now, right? Assuming they resign Mrazek?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Detroit has to make a trade now, right? Assuming they resign Mrazek?

They can do an LTIR dance at the start of the season ala Philly and Boston.

Theoretically the offer for Fowler at this point would probably be Tatar+Smith or Nyquist something small because the salaries will have to work now though.

 

[jkutswings]

It's more exciting than watching your team pick 14th overall. I'd rather watch an extra 2 weeks of hockey (playoff hockey) and draft Dylan Larkin.

But to each of their own....

Right, because there's no chance whatsoever that they could draft even better players (on average) with higher picks. Picking out the one skater drafted in the last decade that shows real promise isn't exactly the whole picture.

And if that Tampa series was entertaining to you, to reach their own.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Detroit has to make a trade now, right? Assuming they resign Mrazek?

Not really Mrazek probably signs a two year bridge deal around $4.5 million per or 2 years $9 million most likely. Holland will be given a 2nd buy out window because they've two arbitrary players in DeKeyser and Mrazek. So Holland could chose to buyout Howard though i doubt it happens So yeah in the instance some one has to be moved or a couple players will need to be moved.

 

[Bench]

The cap crunch really stings because if a great defender becomes available via trade, the Wings are out of the running because they can't fit him. No team trading a high money defender is going to want cap dumps back.

Even the Fowler trade, the lowest paid good defender we could hope to find, now makes no sense for the Ducks, if they are getting equal salary in return.

 

[Winger98]

The cap crunch really stings because if a great defender becomes available via trade, the Wings are out of the running because they can't fit him. No team trading a high money defender is going to want cap dumps back.

Even the Fowler trade, the lowest paid good defender we could hope to find, now makes no sense for the Ducks, if they are getting equal salary in return.

eh, depends how much they want help up front. I'd dangle Nyquist and Sheahan in front of them, maybe with a pick, and see if we could get Fowler and Nattinen back.

 

[Frk It]

The cap crunch really stings because if a great defender becomes available via trade, the Wings are out of the running because they can't fit him. No team trading a high money defender is going to want cap dumps back.

Even the Fowler trade, the lowest paid good defender we could hope to find, now makes no sense for the Ducks, if they are getting equal salary in return.

Dude, you're making me sad.

 

[Bench]

eh, depends how much they want help up front. I'd dangle Nyquist and Sheahan in front of them, maybe with a pick, and see if we could get Fowler and Nattinen back.

And does that sound like a Holland trade? Two roster players in the top 9 being shipped out.

Dude, you're making me sad.

I made myself sad. I don't see any solutions that wouldn't involve a massive surprise change in behavior from Holland. Before the cap crunch the Fowler deal seemed doable. Now? Not so much.

 

[Winger98]

And does that sound like a Holland trade? Two roster players in the top 9 being shipped out.

sadly, no. This roster just doesn't excite me. We needed help on the backend and didn't get it. We had no reason to sign a bunch of vets and we did anyway. And our cap situation is a mess that's going to require a bunch of theatrics just to ice a roster to start the season. And we're a bubble team. A capped out bubble team.

 

[Bench]

sadly, no. This roster just doesn't excite me. We needed help on the backend and didn't get it. We had no reason to sign a bunch of vets and we did anyway. And our cap situation is a mess that's going to require a bunch of theatrics just to ice a roster to start the season. And we're a bubble team. A capped out bubble team.

To compound your pessimism, I also think most of the long-term contracts represent their peak today. As in, the roster we have now is as good as it will get in the next 4ish years.

And as you pointed out, our peak is a bubble team. Ouch. Hopefully we are dead wrong, because I agree, it's not an exciting product to cheer for.

 

[Spitfire11]

Detroit has to make a trade now, right? Assuming they resign Mrazek?

Nahhh, waivers will sort it out.