Speculation: Do the Habs have the toughest defense in the league?

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
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i think its cyclical and always looking at what worked last time is akin to the tsa only banning things that they catch.

This is an important point. Chasing trends is a poor strategy, whether in the stock-market or on an NHL roster. Pittsburgh didn't ape Chicago, who wasn't like LA, who didn't copy Boston, who wasn't like Detroit or New Jersey. Those teams won by exploiting what they had, not by trying to imitate the last guy.

Montreal lost some puck-movement on the back-end, but they gained physical presence with Weber and feistiness with Shaw and Radulov. All this newfound physicality is karma for how desperately we wanted to shed the 'smurf' label. And who knows... it just may work for us.
 

Wats

Error 520
Mar 8, 2006
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All this newfound physicality is karma for how desperately we wanted to shed the 'smurf' label. And who knows... it just may work for us.

Smurf label is based around having guys like Desharnais playing a lot of minutes up front.

This isnt even the most physical Habs team in last decade. See Rivet/ Souray/Komisarek
 
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tinyzombies

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
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Montreal, QC, Canada
Like the habs D and I don't get why everyone is worried about PMD. Sure we lost a great one in PK but its not like none of our other D can skate with the puck.

All our D have some mobility and size. None of our D are under 6 Ft and Markov and Barberio are essentially 200 lbs. It might not be the fastest D but it is mobile.

None of these guys compare to PK Subban I am not saying they can replace PK. The team will have to play differently now and its up to the coach and the players to adapt. I just think its a very well rounded D with size, strength and mobility up and down the lineup.

Hold it, hold it - what??
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
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Smurf label is based around having guys like Desharnais playing a lot of minutes up front.

This isnt even the most physical Habs team in last decade. See Rivet/ Souray/Komisarek

Our defence a few years ago included Kaberle, Diaz, Yannick Weber, Gorges, and Campoli. Our defence today could eat our previous defence as a snack.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
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This is an important point. Chasing trends is a poor strategy, whether in the stock-market or on an NHL roster. Pittsburgh didn't ape Chicago, who wasn't like LA, who didn't copy Boston, who wasn't like Detroit or New Jersey. Those teams won by exploiting what they had, not by trying to imitate the last guy.

Montreal lost some puck-movement on the back-end, but they gained physical presence with Weber and feistiness with Shaw and Radulov. All this newfound physicality is karma for how desperately we wanted to shed the 'smurf' label. And who knows... it just may work for us.

hey it's your biggest fan boy here! lol

I was thinking about posting the same thing. Remember when we went full smurf in 2010 because the league was supposed to be trending to speed? Besides the kind of flukey ECF appearance that really didn't work too well for us.

I've seen it first hand that this team in the last few years just plays better when we've got some toughness in there.

Surely people know how trends work. They're very mercurial.

That being said that doesn't mean we just go against the current for kicks but I don't think we're doing that. We have PMDs. We just drafted a really really good one.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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Hold it, hold it - what??

The coach and the players need to play differently because PK is not on the ice anymore. Adapt means adjust. Coach needs to adjust game plan, players need to adjust game plan. I thought that was pretty simple and easy to understand.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
11,560
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This is a joke right? Habs with toughest D?? Good God

I don't think we do but you add Weber to your D corps you're gonna be a helluva lot tougher. Definitely not as far off as you make it sound.

Emelin and Pateryn are pretty bruising themselves.

Petry's physical but more so in a work man like way. Hardly intimidating.

NB can be at times but he's more scrappy.

Definitely the toughest D we've had in awhile.
 

Never

Can you hear me now?
Sep 16, 2009
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The coach and the players need to play differently because PK is not on the ice anymore. Adapt means adjust. Coach needs to adjust game plan, players need to adjust game plan. I thought that was pretty simple and easy to understand.

He's pointing out that Therrien and adapt don't belong in the same sentence, which is true.
 

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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He's pointing out that Therrien and adapt don't belong in the same sentence, which is true.

We will see, he has done it in the playoffs and the beginning of last year before Price got injured and the team began to collapse.
 

sandysan

Registered User
Dec 7, 2011
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I don't think we do but you add Weber to your D corps you're gonna be a helluva lot tougher. Definitely not as far off as you make it sound.

Emelin and Pateryn are pretty bruising themselves.

Petry's physical but more so in a work man like way. Hardly intimidating.

NB can be at times but he's more scrappy.

Definitely the toughest D we've had in awhile.

see this is what I was alluding to. We have been so butter soft the people are convinced that players like petry are physical. He's not.

And I'm not a big fan of emelins but I can appreciate what he brings, once every 2-3 games he goes out and throws a big hit. when he does he's about 50/50 to deliver it. But in front of the net, he's a kitten. Pateryn IS big and is likely the one guy outside of weber who I might consider to be above average physically in front of the net ( one of his few redeeming qualities). ALL of the other D are simply soft. no one fears riding the paint with guys like barberio, markov, petry and beaulieu on their backs.

so i appreciate the increase in relative toughness on out back end, but let's not think that this path is done. tougher, yes. Toughest ? no.
 

Hackett

BAKAMAN
Mar 4, 2002
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After Weber there are no D that intimidate the opposition.

I would be surprised if the opposition is not aware when Emeline is on the ice. Maybe not intimidated, but very aware of their surroundings.

Pateryn might become a guy like that too. He's shown flashes of it.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,093
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Orleans
Our defence a few years ago included Kaberle, Diaz, Yannick Weber, Gorges, and Campoli. Our defence today could eat our previous defence as a snack.

You forget Spacek and St-Pierre......plus yannick Weber was a 4th liner :sarcasm:

After Weber there are no D that intimidate the opposition.

Emelin is a top 3 hitting defenseman in the league....they're intimidated alright, but mainly crossing that blue line.

Ask Statsny how he feels about Emelin!
 
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Le Barron de HF

Justin make me proud
Mar 12, 2008
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REFERENCE FOR LINE-UPS: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2104107

Note: I put in bold tough defenders (players with around 150+ hits or who are notorious for their body checks).

ANAHEIM:

FOWLER (43 hits in 69 GP)
BIEKSA (152 hits in 71 GP)
LINDHOLM (68 hits in 80 GP)
DESPRES (67 hits in 32 GP)
MANSON (158 hits in 71 GP)
VATANEN (75 hits in 71 GP)

ARIZONA:

OEL (154 hits in 75 GP)
STONE (137 hits in 75 GP)
GOLIGOSKI (100 hits in 82 GP)
MURPHY (175 hits in 78 GP)
CONNAUTON (100 hits in 65 GP)
MICHALEK (84 hits in 70 GP)

BOSTON:

CHARA (134 hits in 80 GP)
C. MILLER (45 hits in 42 GP)
KRUG (61 hits in 81 GP)
MCQUAID (142 hits in 64 GP)
LILES (81 hits in 81 GP)
K. MILLER (164 hits in 74 GP)

BUFFALO:

KULIKOV (122 hits in 74 GP)
RISTOLAINEN (139 hits in 82 GP)
MCCABE (114 hits in 77 GP)
BOGOSIAN (86 hits in 64 GP)
GORGES (143 hits in 77 GP)
FRANSON (61 hits in 59 GP)

CALGARY:

GIORDANO (65 hits in 82 GP)
BRODIE (15 hits in 70 GP)
JOKIPAKKA (69 hits in 58 hits)
HAMILTON (78 hits in 82 GP)
WOTHERSPOON (14 hits in 11 GP)
WIDEMAN (37 hits in 51 GP)

CAROLINA:

SLAVIN (41 hits in 63 GP)
FAULK (109 hits in 64 GP)
HANIFIN (67 hits in 79 GP)
HAINSEY (85 hits in 81 GP)
PESCE (30 hits in 69 GP)
MURPHY (25 hits in 35 GP)

CHICAGO:

KEITH (16 hits in 67 GP)
HJALMARSSON (32 hits in 81 GP)
CAMPBELL (27 hits in 82 GP)
SEABROOK (121 hits in 81 GP)
KEMPNY (46 PIM in KHL, doesn't seem like a real physical guy based on quick research)
VAN RIEMSDYK (44 hits in 82 GP)

COLORADO:

BEAUCHEMIN (78 hits in 82 GP)
JOHNSON (126 hits in 73 GP)
BIGRAS (17 hits in 31 GP)
BARRIE (37 hits in 78 GP)
ZADOROV (53 hits in 22 GP)
TYUTIN (128 hits in 61 GP)

COLUMBUS:

MURRAY (51 hits in 81 GP)
JONES (86 hits in 81 GP)
JOHNSON (98 hits in 60 GP)
SAVARD (122 hits in 65 GP)
WERENSKI
PROUT (139 hits in 64 GP)

DALLAS:

HAMHUIS (64 hits in 58 GP)
KLINGBERG (44 hits in 76 GP)
ODUYA (73 hits in 82 GP)
JOHNS (55 hits in 14 GP)
OLEKSIAK (54 hits in 19 GP)
BENN (90 hits in 64 GP)

DETROIT:

DEKEYSER (88 hits in 78 GP)
GREEN (106 hits in 74 GP)
KRONWALL (93 hits in 64 GP)
SMITH (94 hits in 63 GP)
ERICSSON (121 hits in 71 GP)
MARCHENKO (47 hits in 66 GP)

EDMONTON:

KLEFBOM (21 hits in 30 GP)
LARSSON (163 hits in 82 GP)
SEKERA (60 hits in 80 GP)
FAYNE (53 hits in 69 GP)
DAVIDSON (74 hits in 51 GP)
NURSE (160 hits in 69 GP)

FLORIDA:

MATHESON
EKBLAD (87 hits in 78 GP)
YANDLE (43 hits in 82 GP)
DEMERS (86 hits in 62 GP)
PYSYK (37 hits in 55 GP)
PETROVIC (157 hits in 66 GP)

LOS ANGELES:

MCNABB (206 hits in 81 GP)
DOUGHTY (125 hits in 82 GP)
MUZZIN (197 hits in 82 GP)
MARTINEZ (164 hits in 78 GP)
SCUDERI (31 hits in 63 GP)
GILBERT (29 hits in 45 GP)

MINNESOTA:

SUTER (69 hits in 82 GP)
SPURGEON (51 hits in 77 GP)
BRODIN (34 hits in 68 GP)
DUMBA (83 hits in 81 GP)
SCANDELLA (66 hits in 73 GP)
REILLY (3 hits in 29 GP)

MONTREAL:

WEBER (169 hits in 78 GP)
BEAULIEU (59 hits in 64 GP)
PETRY (86 hits in 51 GP)
EMELIN (256 hits in 72 GP)
MARKOV (57 hits in 82 GP)
PATERYN (100 hits in 38 GP)

NASHVILLE:

JOSI (59 hits in 81 GP)
SUBBAN (102 hits in 68 GP)
EKHOLM (67 hits in 82 GP)
ELLIS (61 hits 79 GP)
BITETTO (62 hits in 28 GP)
WEBER (49 hits in 45 GP)

NEW JERSEY:

GREENE (73 hits in 82 GP)
SEVERSON (66 hits in 72 GP)
MOORE (93 hits in 73 GP)
LOVEJOY (154 hits in 66 GP)
MERRILL (48 hits in 47 GP)
SANTINI

ISLANDERS:

LEDDY (83 hits in 81 GP)
HAMONIC (148 hits in 72 GP)
DE HAAN (128 hits in 72 GP)
BOYCHUK (149 in 70 GP)
HICKEY (65 hits in 62 GP)
PULOCK (13 hits in 15 GP)

RANGERS:

MCDONAGH (98 hits in 73 GP)
GIRARDI (168 hits in 74 GP)
STAAL (65 hits in 77 GP)
KLEIN (117 hits in 69 GP)
SKJEI (11 hits in 7 GP)
MCILRATH (93 hits in 34 GP)

OTTAWA:

METHOT (124 hits in 69 GP)
KARLSSON (84 hits in 82 GP)
PHANEUF (168 hits in 71 GP)
CECI (70 hits in 75 GP)
WIDEMAN (57 hits in 64 GP)
BOROWIECKI (271 hits in 63 GP)

PHILADELPHIA:

DEL ZOTTO (140 hits in 52 GP)
GOSTISBEHERE (27 hits in 64 GP)
SCHULTZ (85 hits in 81 GP)
STREIT (28 hits in 62 GP)
PROVOROV
GUDAS (304 hits in 76 GP)

PITTSBURGH:

MAATTA (81 hits in 67 GP)
LETANG (135 hits in 71 GP)
DUMOULIN (77 hits in 79 GP)
DALEY (42 hits in 82 GP)
COLE (122 hits in 70 GP)
SCHULTZ (36 hits in 63 GP)

SAN JOSE:

BURNS (101 hits in 82 GP)
VLASIC (47 hits in 67 GP)
MARTIN(54 hits in 78 GP)
BRAUN (95 hits in 80 GP)
DILLON (154 hits in 76 GP)
SCHLEMKO (47 hits in 67 GP)

ST. LOUIS:

BOUWMEESTER (71 hits in 72 GP)
PIETRANGELO (48 hits in 73 GP)
EDMUNDSON (165 hits in 67 GP)
SHATTENKIRK (82 hits in 72 GP)
GUNNARSSON (67 hits in 72 GP)
PARAYKO (102 hits in 79 GP)

TAMPA BAY:

HEDMAN (62 hits in 78 GP)
STRALMAN (99 hits in 73 GP)
KOEKKOEK (6 hits in 9 GP)
COBURN (111 hits in 80 GP)
GARRISON (88 hits in 72 GP)
SUSTR (29 hits in 77 GP)

TORONTO:

MARINCIN (37 hits in 65 GP)
RIELLY (58 hits in 82 GP)
GARDINER (87 hits in 79 GP)
ZAITSEV
HUNWICK (126 hits in 60 GP)
POLAK (303 hits in 79 GP)

VANCOUVER:

EDLER (84 hits in 52 GP)
TANEV (18 hits in 69 GP)
HUTTON (42 hits in 75 GP)
GUDBRANSON (150 hits in 64 GP)
SBISA (71 hits in 41 GP)
TRYAMKIN (31 hits in 13 GP)

WASHINGTON:

ORPIK (125 hits in 41 GP)
CARLSON (46 hits in 56 GP)
ALZNER (135 hits in 82 GP)
NISKANEN (157 hits in 82 GP)
SCHMIDT (69 hits in 72 GP)
ORLOV (121 hits in 82 GP)

WINNIPEG:

TROUBA (144 hits in 81 GP)
BYFUGLIEN (222 hits in 81 GP)
ENSTROM (25 hits in 72 GP)
MYERS (54 hits in 73 GP)
STUART (162 hits in 64 GP)
CHIAROT (130 hits in 70 GP)


For those who were quick to claim I was out to lunch, with these numbers, I'd argue that only Winnipeg & LA have a defense that punishes the other team more than ours.
 

S Bah

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
9,126
566
victoria bc
There is some significance to the makeup of the Habs team (both offence & defence). The character of these players have an impact, that may be best attributed to the ex-NHLer's characters, whom are Bergevin's friends & management associates. This list of Front Office (NHLers whose high character, desire & competitiveness are Elite.) personnel IMHO, reflects upon the types of people that Marc Bergevin has deemed necessary to his team's success & Stanley Cup hopes.

The list ensues;
1) Rick Dudley - Sr. VP Habs - Ex- PWF for Buffalo Sabres, just simply put was their leader and a catalyst to change the team's fortunes, exemplary competitive spirit & PWF.
2)Scott Mellaby - Asst.GM Habs - See above, this PWF & Team Captain was the major inspiration for teams in which he played, as Berge's friend ex-St.Louis Blue, Al MacInnis.
3)Martin Lapointe - Director of Player Development(Habs) - Ex-Detroit Red Wing another PWF/leader with exemplary team play & work ethic, competitor ++.
4)Rob Ramage - Director of Player Development(Habs) - Ex-Hab**SCC - The added edge in the Habs 24th SCC, just another great team player with exemplary work ethic & competitiveness.
The list goes on and on Gerard Gallant PWF/leader, Donald Audette, Shane Churla, Mario Lemieux say no more, JJ Daigneault- career Dman with exemplary work ethic & competitiveness, SCC #24 also. Each person listed has the same 24/7 attitude/ work ethic, & competitive spirit, these same traits are those Bergevin values when drafting Habs players, signing UFA's & FA's, or trading for players. So size not necessarily the 1st trait he looks for, heart, desire to be the best, competitiveness are certainly at or near the 1st trait. This is the type of team, Habs fans should realize we now have, one made to compete for the SCC #25. Toughness could be a definition for all of those people listed, or competitiveness/leaders, this moreso than toughness which many mistake for fighters/goons and no talent bums. Too many fans simplify terms and label players to confuse other fans into respecting players that don't actually play a complete game, instead they want players that just score pretty goals, which is okay in junior hockey, but won't win anything outside of junior hockey, Professional hockey players are like lawyers, they need a complete education or game to play, or take the risk of looking like a rube or rookie!!!...:handclap::handclap::handclap:
 

McGuires Corndog

Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Feb 6, 2008
25,954
13,385
Montreal
you really believe that?

No, not really.

But it has the potential to get ugly. Markov is getting older, Emelin is more of a premium third pairing guy who can step up on the second pair in case of injuries, Petry is injury prone and who know knows what we are getting from Beaulieu.

I'd say the only defenseman I have a lot of confidence in is the one a lot of people don't, and that's Weber.

On the flip side, Markov could play at the same level again (which he probably will), Beaulieu might take the next step, and Petry might not miss any time at all. In this scenario? Our defense looks pretty good.
 

Le Barron de HF

Justin make me proud
Mar 12, 2008
16,296
3,955
Shawinigan
No, not really.

But it has the potential to get ugly. Markov is getting older, Emelin is more of a premium third pairing guy who can step up on the second pair in case of injuries, Petry is injury prone and who know knows what we are getting from Beaulieu.

I'd say the only defenseman I have a lot of confidence in is the one a lot of people don't, and that's Weber.

On the flip side, Markov could play at the same level again (which he probably will), Beaulieu might take the next step, and Petry might not miss any time at all. In this scenario? Our defense looks pretty good.
Where are you getting that Petry is injury prone?
 

montreal

Go Habs Go
Mar 21, 2002
57,633
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No, not really.

But it has the potential to get ugly. Markov is getting older, Emelin is more of a premium third pairing guy who can step up on the second pair in case of injuries, Petry is injury prone and who know knows what we are getting from Beaulieu.

I'd say the only defenseman I have a lot of confidence in is the one a lot of people don't, and that's Weber.

On the flip side, Markov could play at the same level again (which he probably will), Beaulieu might take the next step, and Petry might not miss any time at all. In this scenario? Our defense looks pretty good.

People don't have a lot of confidence in Weber? Really? I haven't been reading the threads much but Weber is one of the top blueliners in the NHL, not sure how anyone couldn't have confidence in him. I'm worried about where his game will be in a couple of years, but that's always very hard to predict.

Before last season Petry in 4 seasons missed 4 games ('14-'15), 2 games ('13-'14), 0 games ('12-'13, lockout year so just 48 games total), and 9 games ('11-'12) so 15 games over 3 years doesn't sound injury prone to me.

Markov is getting older and it's a legit concern but the offense is still there. If you take out that terrible 12 games where he had just 1 pt, the rest of the year he was on pace for 50 pts again. Before the previous season, only twice in his career did he hit the 50 point mark. We need to put him with someone that can cover ground quickly since he's lost a step or two but I'm not worried about him just yet. Of course if his game really takes a hit this year we are in big trouble though.

We have 3 really good blueliners, a solid bottom pairing one in Emelin and a big question mark in Beaulieu and Barberio. But I got to think that if Beaulieu doesn't step up they will be forced to trade for someone good since they clearly seem to be going for it now or so I would think after the Subban trade.
 

get25

Registered User
Oct 17, 2015
1,983
218
REFERENCE FOR LINE-UPS: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2104107

Note: I put in bold tough defenders (players with around 150+ hits or who are notorious for their body checks).
...
LOS ANGELES:

MCNABB (206 hits in 81 GP)
DOUGHTY (125 hits in 82 GP)
MUZZIN (197 hits in 82 GP)
MARTINEZ (164 hits in 78 GP)
SCUDERI (31 hits in 63 GP)
GILBERT (29 hits in 45 GP)

...
MONTREAL:

WEBER (169 hits in 78 GP)
BEAULIEU (59 hits in 64 GP)
PETRY (86 hits in 51 GP)
EMELIN (256 hits in 72 GP)
MARKOV (57 hits in 82 GP)
PATERYN (100 hits in 38 GP)

...

WINNIPEG:

TROUBA (144 hits in 81 GP)
BYFUGLIEN (222 hits in 81 GP)
ENSTROM (25 hits in 72 GP)
MYERS (54 hits in 73 GP)
STUART (162 hits in 64 GP)
CHIAROT (130 hits in 70 GP)


For those who were quick to claim I was out to lunch, with these numbers, I'd argue that only Winnipeg & LA have a defense that punishes the other team more than ours.
Thanks.

Agreed.

If Pateryn keep the same pace and plays 82 games: 216 hits making us only team with two players with over 200 hits.

Also if we do the same with Petry we get 138 hits not far from 150.
 

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