Speculation: Do the Habs have the toughest defense in the league?

[BatVader]

Not even the toughest D in the Division.
In the League??? Hell No

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Not even the toughest D in the Division.
In the League??? Hell No

Check post #118. It's pretty clear that the team is up there...

 

[HuGo Sham]

it's definitely a big tough D...

weber and beaulieu can fight

weber, emelin and pateryn are all big hitters...

 

[BatVader]

Check post #118. It's pretty clear that the team is up there...

Really!
You referenced your own post?
LOL. I'm guessing then that you consider yourself some kind of guru or expert?
Can you please post the credentials by which you claim this ability.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Really!
You referenced your own post?
LOL. I'm guessing then that you consider yourself some kind of guru or expert?
Can you please post the credentials by which you claim this ability.

...


I referenced my own post because I actually took the time to do RESEARCH, instead of talking out of my ass. But yes that discredits my entire post because I'm the one who brought it up. My post was not based on facts but purely my opinion.

 

[Mrb1p]

When you're softest players are Markov and Petry on the back-end, you're in for a good year.

Petry can dish a lot of hits and he's strong, same for Markov, who also doesn't take **** in front of the net.

 

[get25]

Really!
You referenced your own post?
LOL. I'm guessing then that you consider yourself some kind of guru or expert?
Can you please post the credentials by which you claim this ability.

These are numbers. Does not need credentials.
Pretty tough to contradict.

But your statement needs backup. You seem to pretend to be the expert or guru in this case ready to contradict numbers.

You want to discredit them, please go ahead and prove your point.
Because you basically said we are far from being the toughest in the Atlantic.
Can you prove this in any matter?

Feel free to use his numbers as a base.
He already did the job of compiling them for us.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Check post #118. It's pretty clear that the team is up there...

I'm sorry but post 118 wasn't all that convincing. Number of hits doesn't necessarily indicate toughness, it's more a reflection of playing without the puck. And it's not surprising that we're always near the top in blocked shots and hits. Therrien's system has led us to playing without the puck more often than not.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I'm sorry but post 118 wasn't all that convincing. Number of hits doesn't necessarily indicate toughness, it's more a reflection of playing without the puck. And it's not surprising that we're always near the top in blocked shots and hits. Therrien's system has led us to playing without the puck more often than not.

You raise a good point but I think there are far too many variables to attribute lower #s for hits because of having the puck less. If it was so simple, how come players like Barberio/Gilbert have had comparable hits/per game ratio with us than when they were with Tampa or Florida?

Your argument makes sense for teams like NJ (#1 in Fenwick Against) but you also have a team like Calgary, who based on my list, barely hit at all, that sits at 19th for Fenwick Against.

It's not because that you spend less time in your zone or without the puck that it doesn't mean your players can't throw hits. Otherwise, how would teams like the Kings, Winnipeg & Anaheim who are both top 5 for FA have some many players that hit? At the end of the day I think it comes down to a) the player himself: it's rare that a player will reinvent his game or become physical all of a sudden. b) The coach and his system: teams like NJ, CAR, CHI and DET have never really had any 'hitters' and their coaches don't encourage their players to hit either.

I think at this point, although it's very subjective to begin with, the numbers on NHL.com is probably the best way to determine if we have the most physical D.

NOTE: my knowledge is pretty limited in advanced stats, so I have no idea if FA was the right stat to measure time without the puck, etc. If there was a better stat, my bad.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You raise a good point but I think there are far too many variables to attribute lower #s for hits because of having the puck less. If it was so simple, how come players like Barberio/Gilbert have had comparable hits/per game ratio with us than when they were with Tampa or Florida?

Your argument makes sense for teams like NJ (#1 in Fenwick Against) but you also have a team like Calgary, who based on my list, barely hit at all, that sits at 19th for Fenwick Against.

It's not because that you spend less time in your zone or without the puck that it doesn't mean your players can't throw hits. Otherwise, how would teams like the Kings, Winnipeg & Anaheim who are both top 5 for FA have some many players that hit? At the end of the day I think it comes down to a) the player himself: it's rare that a player will reinvent his game or become physical all of a sudden. b) The coach and his system: teams like NJ, CAR, CHI and DET have never really had any 'hitters' and their coaches don't encourage their players to hit either.

I think at this point, although it's very subjective to begin with, the numbers on NHL.com is probably the best way to determine if we have the most physical D.

NOTE: my knowledge is pretty limited in advanced stats, so I have no idea if FA was the right stat to measure time without the puck, etc. If there was a better stat, my bad.

I'd agree that Emelin can smash people and so can Weber. I'm just saying that number of hits isn't necessarily an indication of "being tough."

Look at Emelin for example. One of the hardest hitters in the league, but he doesn't fight. What does "toughness" mean? I'd say Nick Lidstrom for example was tough to play against but in a completely different way.

 

[Kriss E]

Check post #118. It's pretty clear that the team is up there...

To be fair, ''toughness'' has nothing to do with hitting in my book.
If I were to ask you who's tougher to play against, Lucic or Crosby....who'd you say?

That's what I consider ''toughness''. Letting your skills do the talking. Not how many hits you have.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I'd agree that Emelin can smash people and so can Weber. I'm just saying that number of hits isn't necessarily an indication of "being tough."

Look at Emelin for example. One of the hardest hitters in the league, but he doesn't fight. What does "toughness" mean? I'd say Nick Lidstrom for example was tough to play against but in a completely different way.

To be fair, ''toughness'' has nothing to do with hitting in my book.
If I were to ask you who's tougher to play against, Lucic or Crosby....who'd you say?

That's what I consider ''toughness''. Letting your skills do the talking. Not how many hits you have.

I agree with you guys, it comes down to a matter of opinion on the whole 'tough' term. The examples you used are different in their own way. I'm sure Krejci/Marchand/Crosby could say Plekanec is tough to play against. But at this point, I think I've made it pretty evident that what I'm trying to argue is that our defense is our most physical when I refer to them as the toughest.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree with you guys, it comes down to a matter of opinion on the whole 'tough' term. The examples you used are different in their own way. I'm sure Krejci/Marchand/Crosby could say Plekanec is tough to play against. But at this point, I think I've made it pretty evident that what I'm trying to argue is that our defense is our most physical when I refer to them as the toughest.

Emelin and Weber are plenty physical, I give you that. Toughest in the league? I don't think so but we do have some crunch on the backend now that we haven't had for a while. Not that Subban was soft (he threw some great hits too) but Weber's scary in that regard. And I do look forward to him launching guys from our crease. That's going to be fun to watch.

 

[sandviper]

We are certainly tougher. I'll always be a PK fan, but I have no doubt Shea is meaner and tougher than PK when it comes to crease control and general nasty-ness around the net. Toughest in the league though? I would still lean towards SJ as a D-core whole and maybe Chicago.

As a team though, I feel we are a lot tougher than last year based on the additions of Weber and Shaw for sure. If we send out a line of Shaw - Pleks - Gallagher, we're going to be a very hated team.

 

[JohnLennon]

I disagree with those of you who don't think toughness has any impact on the game, or is not a benefit to the team. Toughness can go a long way for your team in a grueling, seven-game series during the playoffs. It makes the team harder to play against.

I'd rather a tough, more physical defense corps if all other things remained equal, so it's obviously a plus.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I disagree with those of you who don't think toughness has any impact on the game, or is not a benefit to the team. Toughness can go a long way for your team in a grueling, seven-game series during the playoffs. It makes the team harder to play against.

I'd rather a tough, more physical defense corps if all other things remained equal, so it's obviously a plus.

Yep, imagine our defense when we had the likes of Diaz, Kaberle, Campoli, Gorges, etc. against the Isles' fourth line of the last few years.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

We are tougher to play against in our own end, to start the season.......let's see where it goes...

The Habs weren't good in their own end in 2015-16. I was disappointed in Markov, Emelin, Subban, and Beaulieu.

 

[Et le But]

I disagree with those of you who don't think toughness has any impact on the game, or is not a benefit to the team. Toughness can go a long way for your team in a grueling, seven-game series during the playoffs. It makes the team harder to play against.

I'd rather a tough, more physical defense corps if all other things remained equal, so it's obviously a plus.

Not being pinned in your own zone can also go a long way.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

The Habs weren't good in their own end in 2015-16. I was disappointed in Markov, Emelin, Subban, and Beaulieu.

I thought Emelin was very good in the second half of the season, he was playing more physical and wasn't making as many mistakes. I agree with the rest though.

 

[sandysan]

it's definitely a big tough D...

weber and beaulieu can fight

weber, emelin and pateryn are all big hitters...

Weber has fought landeskog, cooke and roussell ( none of whom are tough) in the last two seasons. Beaulieu made his name with the fight against paquette and then got killed the next time he dropped them. There is NO DOUBT that Weber is physical in from of the net, but beaulieu ( and markov and petry and emelin) are butter soft in front of the blue ice.

I still say that ( even with emelins hit numbers) we have 2 D who are above average physically, Weber and Pateryn. Weber might be near the top of that list, Pateryn is marginally above it. Everyone else is below it.

And if we do need someone to fight, i'm glad its not torrey mitchell playing sherrif but we probably want to think about the notion of giving the hat and the shield to Weber who is going to be out best D.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

Not even the toughest D in the Division.
In the League??? Hell No

Many on this board just realized we are now SLOWER than last year...Subban gone, Markov a year older...soooooo what do people do....They push we are the toughest D in the League....lolol Toughest in the League will NOT win stanley cup

Pittsburgh made minced meat out of san jose ....Speed vs BIG and slow....

NHL today is SPEED...which subban has....this is not the era of the broad street bullies or the big bad bruins....

MT is a junior compared to his counterparts

 

[sandysan]

Many on this board just realized we are now SLOWER than last year...Subban gone, Markov a year older...soooooo what do people do....They push we are the toughest D in the League....lolol Toughest in the League will NOT win stanley cup

Pittsburgh made minced meat out of san jose ....Speed vs BIG and slow....

NHL today is SPEED...which subban has....this is not the era of the broad street bullies or the big bad bruins....

MT is a junior compared to his counterparts

yeah all that speed sure as heck stopped guys from taking runs at price. You dont have to be tough top to bottom, you dont have to be fast top to bottom. You want to mix it up so that your team is not exploitable. If all of your guys are net clearers you are going to get pinned. If all you have are softie PMD's, the forwards on the other team are going to leverage that to their advantage. sure it would be great to have 6 to 8 d who could skate like the wind and were monsters in the crease but that aint happening on any team.

Even with PK, no one was afraid of going right to the front of the net and if price got in the way, no one is there to make them pay. Weber ( however slow) does this.

plus complaining about it now makes me recall the adage about crying and spilled milk.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

yeah all that speed sure as heck stopped guys from taking runs at price. You dont have to be tough top to bottom, you dont have to be fast top to bottom. You want to mix it up so that your team is not exploitable. If all of your guys are net clearers you are going to get pinned. If all you have are softie PMD's, the forwards on the other team are going to leverage that to their advantage. sure it would be great to have 6 to 8 d who could skate like the wind and were monsters in the crease but that aint happening on any team.

Even with PK, no one was afraid of going right to the front of the net and if price got in the way, no one is there to make them pay. Weber ( however slow) does this.

plus complaining about it now makes me recall the adage about crying and spilled milk.

LOL

you traded away Subban for a net clearer who is 31 ?

A net clearer, is that what we have now? the price was subban ????

Why not have played Tinordi a little more...he came free !!!!

We better have more than a net clearer !!!! the price was high

 

[BIG GIFS]

LOL

you traded away Subban for a net clearer who is 31 ?

A net clearer, is that what we have now? the price was subban ????

Why not have played Tinordi a little more...he came free !!!!

We better have more than a net clearer !!!! the price was high

Have you even seen him play? He's a lot more than this lol.

 

[sandysan]

LOL

you traded away Subban for a net clearer who is 31 ?

A net clearer, is that what we have now? the price was subban ????

Why not have played Tinordi a little more...he came free !!!!

We better have more than a net clearer !!!! the price was high

a net clearer with some bark behind his bite, who plays solid defense and has a cannon of a shot from the point.

If you think that Weber ( who played at the olympics and will play in the world cup) are Tinordi are comparables well let's just use that statement as a measure of your expertise.

long term the deal probably favors nashville, but Weber is no slouch defensively and if we had kept pk, who is going to stop guys from taking runs at our REAL MVP ? Torrie mitchell ? If you don't have a problem leaving price out to dry to fend for himself with guys in front of him. you think people feared pk in front of the net ?

losing a player like PK sucks but we are not getting a back of pucks in return, we are getting a top 10 D player, who is solid defensively, can contribute offesnively is mean and can leverage that meaness. Skills in a defenseman that we havent had since when ?

PK's gone. you might want to come to terms with it because there arent any take backs in the nhl.