Speculation: Do the Avs trade a top-4 defenceman for a forward?

[Pokecheque]

What does this have to do with EJ's play last season? Nothing.

Actually it has a LOT to do with it--EJ was objectively terrible during the regular season. He stepped it up in the playoffs but IMO a lot of the difference was that he was holding himself back and trying to play a more cerebral game to to avoid injury. And he doesn't really have the type of hockey sense to do that sort of thing. Come playoff time he went all-out again and it worked (for the most part).

It also didn't help either EJ or Sammy that both logged a lot of minutes with Jack Johnson.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Actually it has a LOT to do with it--EJ was objectively terrible during the regular season. He stepped it up in the playoffs but IMO a lot of the difference was that he was holding himself back and trying to play a more cerebral game to to avoid injury. And he doesn't really have the type of hockey sense to do that sort of thing. Come playoff time he went all-out again and it worked (for the most part).

It also didn't help either EJ or Sammy that both logged a lot of minutes with Jack Johnson.

Objectively terrible? No, your opinion is subjective. And you provide a strong counter argument to yourself by pointing out that he played with JMFJ a bunch. He had also missed a lot of time last season and at his age working his way back into game shape, physically and mentally, takes time. I would not change the arc of progression of his season one iota.

 

[Pokecheque]

Objectively terrible? No, your opinion is subjective. And you provide a strong counter argument to yourself by pointing out that he played with JMFJ a bunch. He had also missed a lot of time last season and at his age working his way back into game shape, physically and mentally, takes time. I would not change the arc of progression of his season one iota.

Okay, that's fine, but you appear to be getting all over Sammy for things that have plagued EJ for years now.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Yeah, this is not personal, trading EJ just makes more sense. You don't want to sell valuable asset at low price like Girard. EJs value is what it is.. low for six million.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Okay, that's fine, but you appear to be getting all over Sammy for things that have plagued EJ for years now.

My real concern with Sammy is that he struggles in the playoffs when the play is rougher, the refs even more useless, and his size becomes a limiting factor.

 

[Pokecheque]

My real concern with Sammy is that he struggles in the playoffs when the play is rougher, the refs even more useless, and his size becomes a limiting factor.

I think his "struggles" get wildly taken out of context by this fanbase. He was playing quite well in this year's playoffs before a cheap shot (and it was a cheap shot) took him out. That's more bad luck than anything else. His struggles in the previous postseason could be more chalked up to him playing hurt (for some reason the goddamned Sharks always seem to injure a key player for Colorado right before the end of the season every year like it's some kind of tradition) and having to cover for Nemeth and Graves, who were definitely the worst two defensemen in the playoffs last season.

 

[Hasbro]

What does this have to do with EJ's play last season? Nothing.

Makes him still a risky proposition THIS season.

I think his "struggles" get wildly taken out of context by this fanbase. He was playing quite well in this year's playoffs before a cheap shot (and it was a cheap shot) took him out. That's more bad luck than anything else. His struggles in the previous postseason could be more chalked up to him playing hurt (for some reason the goddamned Sharks always seem to injure a key player for Colorado right before the end of the season every year like it's some kind of tradition) and having to cover for Nemeth and Graves, who were definitely the worst two defensemen in the playoffs last season.

Two games versus them in April this year!

 

[Pokecheque]

Two games versus them in April this year!

Wonderful!

 

[TatteredTornNFrayed]

It wouldn't shock me if there was a trade soon. But I could see them starting the season with the current group, and keep an eye to see if Byram continues to have no recurrence of health issues, how G recovers from injury, if Manson continues to acclimate, etc. so they don't move a guy and then wish they had instead dealt a different one.

 

[shadow1]

It wouldn't shock me if there was a trade soon. But I could see them starting the season with the current group, and keep an eye to see if Byram continues to have no recurrence of health issues, how G recovers from injury, if Manson continues to acclimate, etc. so they don't move a guy and then wish they had instead dealt a different one.

We can't forget Colorado went into last season with a big hole on the 2nd line. That was due to losing Saad to free agency, and to a lesser extent Donskoi to expansion.

Newhook seemed to be the defecto replacement, but he was demoted to the AHL to start the season.

Then Nichushkin got injured on opening night and missed an entire month. The Avalanche's line-up in the rest of October looked like this on an average night:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Burakovsky-Kadri-Compher
Ranta-Jost-O'Connor
Helm-Megna-Kaut (not a typo)

 

[Foppberg]

No, I don't see it. I think you see us do another Lehkonen/Manson midseason trade for a #2C and milk this insane defense for one last run before Girard or someone else is dealt.

 

[Puckstop40]

My real concern with Sammy is that he struggles in the playoffs when the play is rougher, the refs even more useless, and his size becomes a limiting factor.

He looked a lot better these past playoffs and I’ve been one of the most critical posters about him. He played very well with Manson, who is the type of player we said would need to be paired with Girard to cover for his weaknesses.

 

[niwotsblessing]

He looked a lot better these past playoffs and I’ve been one of the most critical posters about him. He played very well with Manson, who is the type of player we said would need to be paired with Girard to cover for his weaknesses.

True, but even Manson with all his toughness could not protect Sammy from a dirty hit which took him out of the playoffs.

 

[flyfysher]

True, but even Manson with all his toughness could not protect Sammy from a dirty hit which took him out of the playoffs.

There are a few of us that felt Girard should have anticipated that play/hit much earlier so as to avoid the hit. I know Poke vehemently feels otherwise so no disrespect is intended. Just a different POV. But you can make the argument that anyone could have been injured and it’s true, there were a lot of injuries and walking wounded after the Avs won..

 

[Bowe Byrum]

Vancouver should have moved JTM at the TDL when his value was at its highest. Now they might just be better off waiting until next season's TDL because the return they'll get now I'm the off-season probably isn't much better than what they'll get at the TDL.

The only thing about a deal this time of year is it brings a lot nore teams in play and not just the contenders.

 

[Gruyeriev]

We can't forget Colorado went into last season with a big hole on the 2nd line. That was due to losing Saad to free agency, and to a lesser extent Donskoi to expansion.

Newhook seemed to be the defecto replacement, but he was demoted to the AHL to start the season.

Then Nichushkin got injured on opening night and missed an entire month. The Avalanche's line-up in the rest of October looked like this on an average night:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Burakovsky-Kadri-Compher
Ranta-Jost-O'Connor
Helm-Megna-Kaut (not a typo)

What was our record for that first 4-6 weeks? I remember Kuemper let in every blocker high shot he faced and the lynch mob wanted him dead.

 

[jfc64]

If the Avs go the budget route instead (of trading Samuel, and goes for a good third line:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Johan Larsson - Compher (Larsson at 3 million a year for two years)
Myers - Newhook - Nichushkin
Cogliano - Helm - O'Connor

 

[Richard88]

If the Avs go the budget route instead (of trading Samuel, and goes for a good third line:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Johan Larsson - Compher (Larsson at 3 million a year for two years)
Myers - Newhook - Nichushkin
Cogliano - Helm - O'Connor

Nichushkin is in the top 6 to stay. If we added Larsson he'd more than likely center the 3rd line between Meyers and Newhook/Compher.

 

[jimmysheva]

Larsson has been rumored to sign for Pittsburgh

 

[Richard88]

Larsson has been rumored to sign for Pittsburgh

It hasn't been confirmed yet. But that might have something to do with Pittsburgh being busy creating caproom first. We'll see

 

[Miri]

God I'm not sure.

A lot of people are going to say Sam Girard should be traded. But today proved again how fantastic his contract is, with free agents like Chiarot ($4.7aav), Gudbranson ($4.0aav), and Leddy ($4.0aav) getting horribly overpaid.

Then flash forward to next summer: EJ's bloated deal will be off the books, and Toews will be a year from free agency. Meanwhile Girard will be 25-years-old with four years left on his great deal.

If I'm GM, I'd explore trading Alex Newhook.

It seems highly questionable as to whether he's a center. And if he's a winger, he's behind Nichushkin (8 yrs), Landeskog (7 yrs), Lehkonen (5 yrs), and Rantanen (3 yrs) in the pecking order.

I don't love the idea of trading a 21-year-old homegrown talent who scored 33 points as a rookie. But he's obviously not a great fit long term playing limited minutes as a third line left wing.

I agree with this, more or less.

Unless we are 100 percent sure Newhook is not going to be THAT 2C we look for (since production-wise, it looked promising, 33 points on bottom six), i guess it should be him to be traded alongside maybe Compher or some picks if needed, for younger cost controlled 2C - pretty much someone like Kadri was, when we traded for him few years ago. I dont know, who that someone in current NHL might be, if there even is anyone like that to be got for that return. I dont like losing our own young promising players, but well...sometimes you have to.

Anyway, that would IMO keep us reasonably competitive for the next year (even if it was slight downgrade compared to Kadri at his current level - but maybe not), and it would be the best course of action to keep us competitive into the future without getting into cap-related issues and losing vital players cause of it. At that point better players than 35 years old Kadri himself.

We could then easily re-up MacK with EJ salary next year, as intended, and Girard could be traded later to have money for Byram, if needed, or Toews new contract.

 

[McJedi]

It’s becoming screamingly obvious we’ll trade Toews next off-season. For now. We’re done defensively. It’s insanely good. Don’t touch it.