Prospect Info: Discussion: Prospects and Marlies Thread IX

[Rielly4]

If Dermott was right handed it would be so perfect...

So unfortunate he is not.

Seems as though he is destined to take over Hunwicks spot.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'm still struggling to see the Grundstrom allure, in a vacuum at least. I can see his skillset being very useful in a "better Hyman" type role, but I haven't seen any flash that makes me think he can be a really good top 6'er on his own. I hope I'm wrong, he just hasn't looked capable of carrying the puck through traffic or making plays to me, good at playing ugly and a pretty good shot with a ton of compete. Kapanen/Bracco I could certainly see being occasional allstars if they pan out, and Leipsic still just reeks of Marchand/Gallagher to me

With Pronman's biases to super-skilled players I'm not surprised at the order of the Leaf prospects or that Grundstrom isn't there

Anyway, hope I'm wrong about Grundstrom

Bracco has more upside as a flashy player. I just highly doubt his ability to get there. Grundstrom's speed, direct game and shot have a lot of appeal as the grinder role on a Babcock team. You have to put weight to probability, and I'm worried Bracco may be a guy destined to the AHL or Europe. His creativity is elite, but the drive and lack of explosive skating at his size are worrisome.

 

[Ramboshaw]

Carl Grundstom with another goal today.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Nice to see Woll included on that list.

 

[Rielly4]

As much as i love Bracco...Grundstrom and Korshkov are our best forward prospects not on a Toronto team. They both have a very good chance at being good LWers for us...After that we have Brooks, Timashov, Johnson, Lindberg, Dzierkals, Walker, Leipsic...We have a lot of left handed wingers coming.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Bracco has more upside as a flashy player. I just highly doubt his ability to get there. Grundstrom's speed, direct game and shot have a lot of appeal as the grinder role on a Babcock team. You have to put weight to probability, and I'm worried Bracco may be a guy destined to the AHL or Europe. His creativity is elite, but the drive and lack of explosive skating at his size are worrisome.

I can see Grundstrom ranking higher with probability of an NHL career factored in, doesn't seem to fit Pronman's criteria. Korshkov feels like he's been forgotten in that same sort of mold since the injury too

I had heard Bracco is closer to 5'11" now than 5'9" but I can't see anywhere that had it posted...I think it came from his uncle or something that told a reporter. His stride looks smooth enough to me that I could see the speed/explosiveness really improving, especially if the rumours about his lack of conditioning have merit...feels like his outcome might boil down to how bad he wants it, he won't get a free ride on a Babcock team - hopefully he at least makes a good transition to the AHL to pump his value and give us some trade options

 

[FreeBird]

Bracco has more upside as a flashy player. I just highly doubt his ability to get there. Grundstrom's speed, direct game and shot have a lot of appeal as the grinder role on a Babcock team. You have to put weight to probability, and I'm worried Bracco may be a guy destined to the AHL or Europe. His creativity is elite, but the drive and lack of explosive skating at his size are worrisome.

Agreed, off to an auspicious debut with the Spits.

 

[FreeBird]

As much as i love Bracco...Grundstrom and Korshkov are our best forward prospects not on a Toronto team. They both have a very good chance at being good LWers for us...After that we have Brooks, Timashov, Johnson, Lindberg, Leipsic...We have a lot of left handed wingers coming.

Coming where, to an AHL near you.

 

[SEER]

2016-17 MAPLE LEAFS PROSPECTS STATS. (*NON-MARLIES)
(I'll try to update this.., once a week.., also..)

PLAYER/POSITION ........ GAMES .. GOALS .. ASSISTS.. POINTS .. +/-
1.) Adam Brooks (C) - Regina Pats - WHL (Drafted: Round 4 /#92 - 2016)
...................................35 Games... 24 Goals... 51 Assists... 75 Points... +36 *2PPG+
2.) Jeremy Bracco (RW) - Windsor Spitfires - OHL *(Traded From Kitchener) Drafted:Round 2 /#61 - 2015)
...................................31 Games... 17 Goals... 36 Assists... 53 Points... +15 *PPG+
3.) Jack Walker (RW) - Victoria Royals - WHL (Drafted: Round 6 /#152 - 2016)
...................................44 Games... 21 Goals... 28 Assists... 49 Points... +13 *PPG+
4.) J.J. Piccinich (LW) - London Knights - OHL (Drafted: Round 4 /#103 - 2014)
...................................40 Games... 16 Goals... 29 Assists... 45 Points... +11 *PPG+
5.) Nikita Korostelev (RW) - Peterborough Petes - OHL (*Traded From Sarnia - Drafted: Round 7 /#185 - 2015)
...................................37 Games... 21 Goals... 23 Assists... 44 Points... +2 *PPG+
6.) Stephen Desrocher (D) - Kingston Frontenacs - OHL (Drafted: Round 6 /#155 - 2015)
...................................40 Games... 7 Goals... 22 Assists...29 Points... -8
7.) Nikolai Chebykin (LW) - (*3 Teams) Dynamo Moskva - KHL/ Dynamo Balashikha - VHL/ HK MVD Balashikha - MHL
.......................................(Drafted: Round 8 /#182 - 2016)
...................................43 Games... 18 Goals... 10 Assists... 28 Points... +10
8.) Pierre Engvall (LW) - Mora IK - Swe-1 (Drafted: Round 7 /#188 - 2014)
...................................35 Games... 14 Goals... 14 Assists... 28 Points... +1
9.) Martins Dzierkals (RW) - Rouyn-Noranda Huskies - QMJHL (Drafted: Round 3 /#68 - 2015)
...................................22 Games... 12 Goals... 15 Assists... 27 Points... +15
10.) Yegor Korshkov (RW) - Lokomotiv Yaroslavl- KHL (Drafted: Round 2 /#31 - 2016)
...................................35 Games... 6 Goals... 12 Assists... 18 Points... +3
11.) Dakota Joshua (F) - Ohio State University - Big-10 (Drafted: Round 5 /#128 - 2014)
...................................14 Games... 2 Goals... 12 Assists... 14 Points... +4 *PPG
12.) Carl Grundstrom (RW) - Frolunda HC -SHL (Drafted: Round 2 /#57 - 2016)
...................................28 Games... 11 Goals... 3 Assists... 14 Points... +6
13.) Nolan Vesey (F) - Univ. of Maine - H-East (Drafted: Round 6 /#158 - 2014)
...................................22 Games... 6 Goals... 8 Assists... 14 Points... 0
14.) Vladimir Bobylev (LW) - Moscow Spartak - KHL (*Left Victoria Royals - Drafted: Round 5 /#122 - 2016)
...................................33 Games... 5 Goals... 8 Assists... 13 Points... +7
15.) Dominic Toninato (F) - Univ. of Minnesota-Duluth - NCHC (Drafted: Round 5 /#126 - 2012)
...................................22 Games... 5 Goals... 7 Assists... 12 Points... +12
16.) Jesper Lindgren (D) - MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik - Swe-1 (Drafted: Round 4 /#95 - 2015)
...................................34 Games... 1 Goal... 10 Assists... 11 Points... -6
17.) Fabrice Herzog (RW) - Zurich SC -Swiss-A (*Played better in North America - Drafted: Round 5 /#142 - 2013)
...................................34 Games... 6 Goals... 4 Assists... 10 Points... +1
18.) Keaton Middleton (D) - Saginaw Spirit - OHL (Drafted: Round 4 /#101 - 2016)
...................................38 Games... 1 Goal... 9 Assists... 10 Points... +6
19.) J.D. Greenway (D) - Univ. of Wisconsin - Big-10 ( Drafted: Round 3 /#72 - 2016)
...................................17 Games... 1 Goal... 3 Assists... 4 Points... -3
20.) Nicolas Mattinen (D) - London Knights - OHL ( Drafted: Round 6 /#179 - 2016)
...................................40 Games... 0 Goals... 3 Assists... 3 Points... +2
-----------------------------------------------------------------
GOALIES
21.) Joseph Woll - Boston College - H-East (Drafted: Round 3 /#62 - 2016)
...................................20 Games... 11 Wins... 8 Losses.. 1 Tie... 0 Shut-Outs... .922 SV%... 2.39 GAA

(*NOTE: INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION (*WJC/etc.) NUMBERS ARE NOT ADDED, YET)

..and please let me know who I am missing.. Thanks..

 

[Rielly4]

Coming where, to an AHL near you.

its not like we have tons of space on our team...If two of those guys become NHLers thats half of our Lwers. My bet would be Grundstrom and Korshkov but the others have a chance.

 

[Eyre]

10.) Yegor Korshkov (RW) - Windsor Spitfires - OHL *(Drafted: Round 2 /#31 - 2016)
...................................35 Games... 6 Goals... 12 Assists... 18 Points... +3

Thanks Seer, super helpful.

Just wanted to add that Korshkov is playing for Lokomotiv Yaroslavl not Windsor, or was before he was injuried.

 

[SEER]

Thanks Seer, super helpful.

Just wanted to add that Korshkov is playing for Lokomotiv Yaroslavl not Windsor, or was before he was injuried.

Thanks, Eyre... Copied and pasted a layout and forgot to edit that part..

 

[Barilko14]

Coming where, to an AHL near you.

Want to fill us in on your extensive analysis of Korshkov's game from your multiple viewings?

 

[Mitchy]

I like Pronman, but I don't think Kappy should be 10 or so spots behind someone like Vrana.

 

[93LEAFS]

I can see Grundstrom ranking higher with probability of an NHL career factored in, doesn't seem to fit Pronman's criteria. Korshkov feels like he's been forgotten in that same sort of mold since the injury too

I had heard Bracco is closer to 5'11" now than 5'9" but I can't see anywhere that had it posted...I think it came from his uncle or something that told a reporter. His stride looks smooth enough to me that I could see the speed/explosiveness really improving, especially if the rumours about his lack of conditioning have merit...feels like his outcome might boil down to how bad he wants it, he won't get a free ride on a Babcock team - hopefully he at least makes a good transition to the AHL to pump his value and give us some trade options

Any list like this has to factor in probability. I knowing Pronman's rankings I know why he is so high on Bracco. But I believe Grundstrom can be a great top 9 guy with goal scoring skills. He will fit seamlessly on any one of our 3 lines right now.

My question with Bracco is how bad does he want it in the corners. I've seen enough of him over his two years in the OHL to be seriously alarmed about his inability to play in the corners. His hands and vision are great, he also has a good shot, but I don't know if they are good enough to overcome his lack of compete. He makes Nylander look like Darcy Tucker at times.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Any list like this has to factor in probability. I knowing Pronman's rankings I know why he is so high on Bracco. But I believe Grundstrom can be a great top 9 guy with goal scoring skills. He will fit seamlessly on any one of our 3 lines right now.

My question with Bracco is how bad does he want it in the corners. I've seen enough of him over his two years in the OHL to be seriously alarmed about his inability to play in the corners. His hands and vision are great, he also has a good shot, but I don't know if they are good enough to overcome his lack of compete. He makes Nylander look like Darcy Tucker at times.

Does Pronman publish his ranking criteria? Seems like he's really big on talent players who have big years/streaks before his rankings come out. The risers from later rounds of the draft who are still playing in second tier leagues with big numbers make me think that he sometimes disregards the probability of an NHL career that got those players drafted later - the Bjorkstrand's types...I guess Bracco fits in there. Anyway it seems like ceiling is a huge criteria on his list

Agree on Grundstrom, I see a really high chance of an NHL player who might be a Franzen/Holmstrom type on a good scoring line - very dependent on his linemates for scoring chances, but not inept when he gets them while doing his part to suppress the other team's offense and get the puck back. I don't see star power though - but my exposure is limited to highlights

Absolutely agree on Bracco - if he develops a drive to compete he rockets up the prospect rankings, might be right with Kapanen, but he has to shed the skating/defensive/willingness to engage concerns to even get a look at the NHL on a Babcock team. I'm hopeful that these can be coached but he's got to want it

 

[93LEAFS]

Does Pronman publish his ranking criteria? Seems like he's really big on talent players who have big years/streaks before his rankings come out. The risers from later rounds of the draft who are still playing in second tier leagues with big numbers make me think that he sometimes disregards the probability of an NHL career that got those players drafted later - the Bjorkstrand's types...I guess Bracco fits in there. Anyway it seems like ceiling is a huge criteria on his list

Agree on Grundstrom, I see a really high chance of an NHL player who might be a Franzen/Holmstrom type on a good scoring line - very dependent on his linemates for scoring chances, but not inept when he gets them while doing his part to suppress the other team's offense and get the puck back. I don't see star power though - but my exposure is limited to highlights

Absolutely agree on Bracco - if he develops a drive to compete he rockets up the prospect rankings, might be right with Kapanen, but he has to shed the skating/defensive/willingness to engage concerns to even get a look at the NHL on a Babcock team. I'm hopeful that these can be coached but he's got to want it

Yeah, I worry about it the compete things a lot. Mainly, because when drafted it was a worry, and I still see it as barely improved. It was a bit better at the WJC, but in league play it is still rarely there. I worry it just might not be in his make-up, and that means he really has to be an elite player to balance that out.

I don't see star power in Grundstrom but I do see a very low-risk reliable player who can potentially be a 25-25-50 guy and maybe more on a good year. He could be a Legion of Doom Renberg type player on our top line. I like the fit into how he projects into our system. Obviously, Pronman can't know each team like we know our own, so maybe I am overvaluing that.

I know he likes skill above all else, although his rankings criteria is ever evolving. It definitely used to have more of an analytical feel.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yeah, I worry about it the compete things a lot. Mainly, because when drafted it was a worry, and I still see it as barely improved. It was a bit better at the WJC, but in league play it is still rarely there. I worry it just might not be in his make-up, and that means he really has to be an elite player to balance that out.

I don't see star power in Grundstrom but I do see a very low-risk reliable player who can potentially be a 25-25-50 guy and maybe more on a good year. He could be a Legion of Doom Renberg type player on our top line. I like the fit into how he projects into our system. Obviously, Pronman can't know each team like we know our own, so maybe I am overvaluing that.

I know he likes skill above all else, although his rankings criteria is ever evolving. It definitely used to have more of an analytical feel.

It's fun to think that we now have the pieces to form a legion of doom type line, and we only have to find the Renberg. Matthews seems to be doing just fine in making a top line out of Hyman and Brown...Brown may have the skills to be a top 6'er in a vacuum but Hyman I don't think is close. Will be fun to see if we can find them a LW to bump Hyman down the lineup...if it's even necessary I guess

I don't think you're way off on Grundstrom's upside, I think he'll need help to be a 25-25-50 guy though, just don't see him creating a lot of his own chances

 

[lebdafor norris]

Kapanen being ahead of both Juolevi and Boeser on Pronman's list might cause a few Canucks fans to boycott Pronman in the future.

 

[saltming]

Does Pronman publish his ranking criteria? Seems like he's really big on talent players who have big years/streaks before his rankings come out. The risers from later rounds of the draft who are still playing in second tier leagues with big numbers make me think that he sometimes disregards the probability of an NHL career that got those players drafted later - the Bjorkstrand's types...I guess Bracco fits in there. Anyway it seems like ceiling is a huge criteria on his list

Agree on Grundstrom, I see a really high chance of an NHL player who might be a Franzen/Holmstrom type on a good scoring line - very dependent on his linemates for scoring chances, but not inept when he gets them while doing his part to suppress the other team's offense and get the puck back. I don't see star power though - but my exposure is limited to highlights

Absolutely agree on Bracco - if he develops a drive to compete he rockets up the prospect rankings, might be right with Kapanen, but he has to shed the skating/defensive/willingness to engage concerns to even get a look at the NHL on a Babcock team. I'm hopeful that these can be coached but he's got to want it

He values skill above all else.

 

[Walshy7]

Kapanen being ahead of both Juolevi and Boeser on Pronman's list might cause a few Canucks fans to boycott Pronman in the future.

what # is kapanen? and any other leafs?

 

[Leafs at Knight]

what # is kapanen? and any other leafs?

22. Bracco at 37, Leipsic at 50.

 

[Walshy7]

22. Bracco at 37, Leipsic at 50.

thanks, not bad

 

[realgoodleafs]

Ya I can see that, but understand why Bracco/Leipsic would be rated above that based on ceiling

Hornqvist seems like a bit of a stretch to me, I've heard the comparison before but Hornqvist has a little flash that I haven't seen in Grundstrom

I won't claim to be an authority on him though, everything I've seen is highlights, so if a poster like 93Leafs who does a ton of prospect research thinks he's a very good prospect than that makes me feel better about him

He made some pretty skilled plays at the WJC. Everything about his game seems suited to the NHL. Grundstrom >>>>> Bracco/Leipsic to me.

 

[firstemperor]

Don't agree with much of Pronman's list. Just skimmed it over very briefly and Sprong + Steel are way too high.

This is the same guy that had Laine #1 and Matthews #2 in his draft rankings by the way.

Don't pay much attention to it.

I don't like Button in particular but his prospect rankings are generally the best by far of the media personalities. Pronman makes Button look competent.