Discussion on Fallout of Chayka's Win-Now Trades

[Mangosteen]

Chayka made our team exciting. If the Hall trade worked and we went to the finals he would of been a genius. 6 degrees of separation.

There were talks of GM awards, then something happened and the wheels feel off. It was nice for a while to be a buyer and hopefully. Now we are hopefully but waaaaaay down the road. BAs picks have been off list in my mind such as Geekie. Time will tell.

Crouse signing was awesome to see!

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[Coyotes19c]

Chayka made our team exciting. If the Hall trade worked and we went to the finals he would of been a genius. 6 degrees of separation.

There were talks of GM awards, then something happened and the wheels feel off. It was nice for a while to be a buyer and hopefully. Now we are hopefully but waaaaaay down the road. BAs picks have been off list in my mind such as Geekie. Time will tell.

Crouse signing was awesome to see!

The hall trade was terrible timing. The coyotes were never close to even winning a playoff series let alone going to the finals.

 

[lanky]

The hall trade was terrible timing. The coyotes were never close to even winning a playoff series let alone going to the finals.

We'll never know for sure, but I think it was Barroway's directive to go all-in so that he could sell the franchise on a high. Chayka was the young fool who believed he could pull it off.

 

[Coyotes19c]

We'll never know for sure, but I think it was Barroway's directive to go all-in so that he could sell the franchise on a high. Chayka was the young fool who believed he could pull it off.

Very possible. I’m just glad we’re finally doing it the right way.

 

[PainForShane]

Chayka made our team exciting. If the Hall trade worked and we went to the finals he would of been a genius. 6 degrees of separation.

There were talks of GM awards, then something happened and the wheels feel off. It was nice for a while to be a buyer and hopefully. Now we are hopefully but waaaaaay down the road. BAs picks have been off list in my mind such as Geekie. Time will tell.

Crouse signing was awesome to see!

And also the Kessel trade that happened just before, I was very surprised when we did that.

Problem is the team was actively not built well -- absolutely no sandpaper (Chayka had traded it all away) or size on the back end so we got absolutely mauled by Colorado 7-1 in the last two games of the playoffs. And also GMJC stood by Tocchet for so long for reasons none of us can understand.

Agree Crouse signing is good, at 4.3m he'll need to get an extended look in our top 6. Maybe split him up with Geekie (e.g., different lines, maybe a Crouse-Cooley-Guenther line and Keller-Geekie-Schmaltz and then you have Bedard or Matthews centering a 3rd line who will be able to score (as well as the other two). Who knows but with Crouse I think that means BA is not be looking to have a highly paid D and is looking to run cheap but serviceable ppl like Moser / Mayo on the second pair even after we get good. Which is 100% ok with me because our forwards should be able to score (esp bc we should get at least one more scorer like Bedard / Fantilli / Michkov / Matthews etc)

Great to see Crouse get paid -- 4.3m is imo 500k - 1m less than what he deserved but he got the term he wanted. Win-win all around.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The wheels fell off because RT is a meathead. Again.... the only problem I have w/BA to date is not having canned RT sooner. Hard to know what you really have when the coach is a meathead.

 

[TheLegend]

The hall trade was terrible timing. The coyotes were never close to even winning a playoff series let alone going to the finals.

We were leading what was a very strong Pacific division when the Hall trade was made. There was a new owner who wanted to make a splash (Meruelo gave the go ahead to sign Kessel, too before he even officially took over ownership), and ticket sales got another big bump.

Can't really fault Chayka for trying go for it at that point.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Coyotes19c]

We were leading what was a very strong Pacific division when the Hall trade was made. There was a new owner who wanted to make a splash (Meruelo gave the go ahead to sign Kessel, too before he even officially took over ownership), and ticket sales got another big bump.

Can't really fault Chayka for trying go for it at that point.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Sure hindsight is 20/20. I would argue though it was clear as day that we weren’t contenders.

 

[Schemp]

Sure hindsight is 20/20. I would argue though it was clear as day that we weren’t contenders.

I believe we were going to trade for Trocheck and Tocchet destroyed our goalie. It's as though Tocchet and Chayka destroyed our season more than the players. Having those 2 may have giving us a better chance and perhaps a better matchup.

 

[YotesFan47]

Sure hindsight is 20/20. I would argue though it was clear as day that we weren’t contenders.

The Kessel deal made sense at the time and the cost was low. Hall was absolutely a poor decision at the time and some of us were skeptical the moment it was made. You fall in with roughly 5 posters who were not fans of the move. We'll say "I told you so" while the rest will say "hindsight". I don't say that as a slight against those who liked the deal, just explaining the mindset of the board from that point in time to now, and why people will say what they say.

Like the OEL trade that a handful of us were wrong on (myself included), it all comes down to perception at the time of the deal and the reality we see today.

 

[SniperHF]

Unless you were/are really high on Bahl, I think the Hall trade hurts more as a function of losing that pick PLUS the stretchgate pick rather than just the pick. You take a shot and fail, lose one pick a good but not great project prospect? It's not the worst thing in the world.

(I might move these out of the crouse thread later)

 

[Mangosteen]

Rick was probably the worst coach in our history. Do you guys miss his post game interviews. Be interesting to see if he ever coaches again.

Is there an easy way to get a list of Chaykas trades? There were a lot.

 

[Jamieh]

Rick was probably the worst coach in our history. Do you guys miss his post game interviews. Be interesting to see if he ever coaches again.

Is there an easy way to get a list of Chaykas trades? There were a lot.

John Chayka Trade History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

John Chayka NHL trade history. Trades can be filtered on players, teams, dates, and events

www.capfriendly.com

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

The Hall trade was exciting at the time, but I think its failure falls alot on Hall himself. He was okay but he had almost 0 memorable moments and didn't mesh well with anyone other than Garland, and I know no one was good against COL other than Kuemper but he did nothing against Nashville either. Perfect case of shiny new toy rather than thinking about chemistry.

 

[Mangosteen]

Thank you! Go through the list. A lot of the trades are great, except Domi. Hate Domi so it was a win by subtraction. Could of got a better return.

 

[Jamieh]

Thank you! Go through the list. A lot of the trades are great, except Domi. Hate Domi so it was a win by subtraction. Could of got a better return.

I was kinda left thinking that a lot of work was done to get to nowhere?? But I guess you have to keep trying

 

[SniperHF]

I was kinda left thinking that a lot of work was done to get to nowhere?? But I guess you have to keep trying

Depends I guess. I think you have to remember where it started, to semi-quote Craig Morgan:
No Coach no Goalie no Center, going into the 2017 NHL draft.

Chayka's moves I think are pretty defensible up through the 2018 offseason. Most of them worked in our favor. Even the Kessel trade was for POJ who isn't exactly doing a lot, was probably a good return on investment on the whole, annoying as he was.

Chayka's problem creeps in during the 2017 draft. He mostly lived off the reputation he got from 2016 and 2015 under Maloney. Our 2017 class sucks something fierce. Further cemented by the Hayton pick which almost everyone called out as not having high enough upside. We may still get value out of that class but it's not gonna be anything like 2016. IMO he allowed himself to get sucked up into his own cargo cult and the whole "fell in love with X/Y/Z" aspect of his drafting was too unchecked.

I think his overrated drafting ability post 2016 was a way bigger problem than his trades on the whole, to tl;dr it.

 

[SniperHF]

Problem is the team was actively not built well -- absolutely no sandpaper (Chayka had traded it all away) or size on the back end

And add this, to my last post.

Too many of our players were all the same guy.

 

[RABBIT]

Overall, I think Chayka made some good trades.

The big ones:
- Like someone mentioned above, the Hall trade really hurt because of the illegal testing punishment. Trading Bahl and a 1st for Hall (who wasn’t against an extension if I recall) is not a terrible trade. What happened afterward was what contributed to the sting. I remember a high scoring game we were playing at home against Minnesota that Kuemper did not need to stay in for. I think he let in like 6-8 goals, then he got injured. We were close to leading the Pacific when he went down, and our team began to plummet. We got bounced out of the playoffs quickly and it was clear that Hall would test free agency at that point. Then we lost the other draft picks and didn’t pick until the 4th round, selecting none other than Miller. Overall just a really weird, disappointing year.

- Domi for Galchenyuk was a gamble I think a lot of teams would have made. I hated losing Domi but he apparently wanted a fresh start, so why not trade for a “natural” center around Max’s age that has put up 30 goals before? Both guys are journeymen now, with the competitive edge to Domi. Nobody saw that coming.

The good:
- Acquiring Goligoski’s rights for a 5th
- Acquiring 16th overall and Datsyuk’s contract for Vitale, 20th and 53rd overall. We ended up walking away from the 2016 first round with Keller and Chychrun. Still one of my favorite drafts.
- Acquiring DeAngelo for 37th overall in that same draft was a great gamble. Say what you will about him personally but he has always been a great hockey player.
- Acquiring Kuemper for Rieder. He must’ve seen the future on this one.
- Acquiring Crouse for a 3rd and a 2nd (although having Crouse make the team out of camp was dumb because it could have been for two 3rds.)
- Acquiring a 1st and a 2nd for Hanzal is an insane return looking back. The full trade has more moving parts but those are the meat and potatoes. Too bad we used that first on POJ, though. Never liked that pick.
- Demers for McGinn was good, although Demers fell off pretty quickly afterward.
- Wedgewood for a 5th was good, too.
- Kessel for POJ and Galchenyuk is still probably a win right now. Kessel contributed more to us than Galchenyuk did to the Pens, and POJ is not really a factor right now. This could change.


The bad:
- Although Raanta was a solider for us and Stepan had a good first season, trading 7th overall and DeAngelo looks pretty bad now.
- Panik for Duclair was never a good trade.


The wash:
- Hjalmarsson for Murphy deal. Hjalmarsson didn’t last as long, but he was still an elite shutdown defenseman
- Schmaltz for Strome and Perlini hurt at first, but both Schmaltz and Strome are pretty even at this point. Maybe even the edge to Schmaltz, right now.
- Hinostroza for the Hossa contract is pretty meh. Didn’t really hurt us but didn’t really benefit us.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Trading Bahl and a 1st for Hall (who wasn’t against an extension if I recall)

Who are you, Dr. Seuss? (j/k, you're the one who spotted my Klock accidental humor)

 

[RABBIT]

Who are you, Dr. Seuss? (j/k, you're the one who spotted my Klock accidental humor)

Oh shit I am straight spittin

 

[TheLegend]

Sure hindsight is 20/20. I would argue though it was clear as day that we weren’t contenders.

Maybe now it’s clear…….

That’s the point.

 

[RemoAZ]

Chayka was garbage. This team was never close, never a Hall away from being a contender. You're looking at it with rose colored glasses to think otherwise. They played over their heads for a bit is all. The talent on the roster wasn't there. Then he started making moves like they were close and the results were very predictable. Just look at the players on the roster. Biggest problem was there was never talent at the center position. The team was gutless and couldn't score. We had a coach that was a tough sob and good scorer and coached completely oppositely. Who could have predicted that?

 

[RABBIT]

Chayka was garbage. This team was never close, never a Hall away from being a contender. You're looking at it with rose colored glasses to think otherwise. They played over their heads for a bit is all. The talent on the roster wasn't there. Then he started making moves like they were close and the results were very predictable. Just look at the players on the roster. Biggest problem was there was never talent at the center position. The team was gutless and couldn't score. We had a coach that was a tough sob and good scorer and coached completely oppositely. Who could have predicted that?

I think if you were in Chayka’s shoes and had that deal on the table, you make it. Right? GM’s usually have careers past their mistakes. While it was risky, it could’ve really worked out if the team was healthy and Hall returned to his MVP form. I think that’s a trade any GM makes, regardless of what fans think. We were fighting for a division lead. I still don’t think that trade was bad. In the same breath, I think that not picking until the 5th round (essentially) the following year was a colossal failure.

The only Chayka trades I cringe at are the 7th overall and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta, and the Panik for Duclair trade. He wasn’t the best drafter, but he was actually pretty decent with trades in the long haul.

Let me wrap by saying that I’m thrilled to have Bill Armstrong after replaying this all in my head. I just hope that Bill is as good at acquiring actual players as he is with acquiring cap dumps.

 

[RemoAZ]

I think if you were in Chayka’s shoes and had that deal on the table, you make it. Right? GM’s usually have careers past their mistakes. While it was risky, it could’ve really worked out if the team was healthy and Hall returned to his MVP form. I think that’s a trade any GM makes, regardless of what fans think. We were fighting for a division lead. I still don’t think that trade was bad. In the same breath, I think that not picking until the 5th round (essentially) the following year was a colossal failure.

The only Chayka trades I cringe at are the 7th overall and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta, and the Panik for Duclair trade. He wasn’t the best drafter, but he was actually pretty decent with trades in the long haul.

Let me wrap by saying that I’m thrilled to have Bill Armstrong after replaying this all in my head. I just hope that Bill is as good at acquiring actual players as he is with acquiring cap dumps.

No. We weren't a Hall away from being a contender so dumb trade and we weren't anywhere near being near a team where you trade a top 10 pick for a Stepan. Both dumb trades for this team. Those are trades contenders make. This team hasn't sniffed average, let alone contender. Shouldn't have made the Duclair, Strome or Domi trades either. At least we have a guy at the helm now who has a real iron clad resume. If he screws this thing up, it won't be because he had bad training. The guy couldn't have had a better road map to the get to the job he has now. He's doing it the right way no matter how much pain it's putting us fans through. Hopefully it's worth it.