Discussion About Management . Part 44. (#356)

[y2kcanucks]

Well, if you want your opinion to be taken seriously when you start up your "What the dumdum Canucks should be doing, by y2k" blog, you kinda have to watch the games or no one will really take you seriously.

Last thing I'd want is to see is the writings of an evidently brilliant hockey mind dismissed as:

I watch enough. I also understand analytics which helps.

 

[elwin316]

Weird that you're so obsessed with how much hockey content I watch.

Watching does tend to be helpful, not sure there's much debating that.

When people rely on point production stats you end up with fans equating Nikita Zaitsev to Chris Tanev...

 

[y2kcanucks]

Watching does tend to be helpful, not sure there's much debating that.

When people rely on point production stats you end up with fans equating Nikita Zaitsev to Chris Tanev...

Who says this is the case?

 

[elwin316]

Who says this is the case?

"2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time."

Sound familiar?

 

[y2kcanucks]

"2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time."

Sound familiar?

Yup. Is that the only analysis I use for this team? No? Okay then.

For all the BS that was spewed on here about how Granlund is a 2nd liner and a lock to score 20 goals and 45 points, his 22 point pace while being our forward leader in ice-time isn't very good.

 

[elwin316]

Yup. Is that the only analysis I use for this team? No? Okay then.

For all the BS that was spewed on here about how Granlund is a 2nd liner and a lock to score 20 goals and 45 points, his 22 point pace while being our forward leader in ice-time isn't very good.

I was just simply answering your question.

Anyways, back to discussing management.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I was just simply answering your question.

Anyways, back to discussing management.

Cherry picking though.

 

[Jessep]

"Competebuild" implies that we are competing, not trying to compete and failing. Benning has utterly failed at competing, so why is this a "Competebuild"? (rhetorical question, I don't wan't to hear your answer - save that for your fellow Benninites!) Moreover, given Benning's poor top ten picks (save and except for Pettersson) and his failure to obtain, or even retain, draft picks, there really isn't any evidence to suggest he is doing a good job "building" this franchise (LOL at the notion of building a dynasty, that's great). Accordingly, CompeteandBuildFail™ is a far more accurate term to describe what Lord Benning has been doing.

The only guarantee you can make is to try. The truth is they were in the playoff hunt both of the past two seasons until injuries piled up. The compete was there, unfortunately with very little in the way of quality call ups, injuries have a greater effect on a rebuilding team. Bottoming out is real possibility no matter the path chosen in rebuilding. Personally I prefer the "try to remain competive" route.

 

[valkynax]

The only guarantee you can make is to try. The truth is they were in the playoff hunt both of the past two seasons until injuries piled up. The compete was there, unfortunately with very little in the way of quality call ups, injuries have a greater effect on a rebuilding team. Bottoming out is real possibility no matter the path chosen in rebuilding. Personally I prefer the "try to remain competive" route.

It's more about lack of depth. The current quagmire the team is in is caused by a whole bunch of reasons. Lack of depth is definitely one of them. Part of this also circles back to the harsh cold reality that Benning and his cronies had been trying so very hard to deny, ignore, and bury: this team has no f***ing proven ELITE talents.

Such talents can be acquired by either hugely overpriced trades, or draft. Benning is pretty awful at both. We could also take this a few steps further and blame it on the overall setup of draft but that's way beyond the control of this team. Effort can make up for the lack of talent to a certain degree, but when the talent gap is such a tremendous gulf, there's really not much you can achieve. It's like if someone like Michael Ferland tries 1,000% and he'll still get his ass handed to him on a platter against McD or Draisaitl.

BB and Pettersson are PROBABLY able to fill in the elite talent role? But that's still largely unknown.

 

[Melvin]

Yup. Is that the only analysis I use for this team? No? Okay then.

For all the BS that was spewed on here about how Granlund is a 2nd liner and a lock to score 20 goals and 45 points, his 22 point pace while being our forward leader in ice-time isn't very good.

Horvat is averaging more ice time than Granlund and honestly, we are so early in the season that he is one 3 point game away from being on that 45 point pace. It's just way too early to be calling him a 20 point player.

I am as low on Granlund as anyone but you are being remarkably silly here and digging in your heels like a child.

 

[LeftCoast]

Yup. Is that the only analysis I use for this team? No? Okay then.

For all the BS that was spewed on here about how Granlund is a 2nd liner and a lock to score 20 goals and 45 points, his 22 point pace while being our forward leader in ice-time isn't very good.

Perhaps if you actually watched a game you would recognize the Travis Green is very closing line matching the Sutter/Granlund/Dorsett line against the top opposing forwards and that while doing that, this line is spending most of their time in the offensive zone AND creating chances.

Maybe if you weren't cherry picking stats to support your foregone conclusion you would have noticed that Granlund is 11th (7th among forwards) in PP TOI and 4th (2nd among forwards) in PK TOI and is starting 57% of his shifts in the defensive zone. He's also playing with Sutter and Dorsett, whom you have maintained repeatedly are worse than rubbish. Do you think that might explain his production?

 

[Melvin]

Perhaps if you actually watched a game you would recognize the Travis Green is very closing line matching the Sutter/Granlund/Dorsett line against the top opposing forwards and that while doing that, this line is spending most of their time in the offensive zone AND creating chances.

Maybe if you weren't cherry picking stats to support your foregone conclusion you would have noticed that Granlund is 11th (7th among forwards) in PP TOI and 4th (2nd among forwards) in PK TOI and is starting 57% of his shifts in the defensive zone. He's also playing with Sutter and Dorsett, whom you have maintained repeatedly are worse than rubbish. Do you think that might explain his production?

Uh, that would be our leading goalscorer Derek Dorsett.

 

[LeftCoast]

Uh, that would be our leading goalscorer Derek Dorsett.

Yeah - 'cause Derek Dorsett is an elite playmaker who elevates the performance of players on his line - rather than utility/energy guy who is on a hot streak.

 

[clunk]

I would love a Y2k blog. Would love to see the ultimate pessimist/realist view using analytics and such on the Canucks... And laying into management of course.

Do it.

 

[F A N]

I would love a Y2k blog. Would love to see the ultimate pessimist/realist view using analytics and such on the Canucks... And laying into management of course.

Do it.

I have no interest in reading a Donald Trump like blog where the author is just bragging.

 

[drax0s]

I have no interest in reading a Donald Trump like blog where the author is just bragging.

Oh come now, it would be amusing as hell as he tried to build a following before eventually degenerating into ranting and raving about not being taken seriously.

 

[clunk]

Y2K is a top 2 effective poster on this board imo.

Everybody challenges him on everything he says and has already built a 'following', tbh.

Only poster that seems to get more responses is M2B, being undisputed 2017 board MVP.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Y2K is a top 2 effective poster on this board imo.

Everybody challenges him on everything he says and has already built a 'following', tbh.

Only poster that seems to get more responses is M2B, being undisputed LIFETIME board MVP.

Corrected.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I have no interest in reading a Donald Trump like blog where the author is just bragging.

You take a lot of pot shots for someone who often cries about 'bullying'.

 

[drax0s]

Y2K is a top 2 effective poster on this board imo.

Everybody challenges him on everything he says and has already built a 'following', tbh.

Only poster that seems to get more responses is M2B, being undisputed 2017 board MVP.

Yeah, I'll definitely agree with you there. M2B is by far a better poster.

 

[Jessep]

It's more about lack of depth. The current quagmire the team is in is caused by a whole bunch of reasons. Lack of depth is definitely one of them. Part of this also circles back to the harsh cold reality that Benning and his cronies had been trying so very hard to deny, ignore, and bury: this team has no ****ing proven ELITE talents.

Such talents can be acquired by either hugely overpriced trades, or draft. Benning is pretty awful at both. We could also take this a few steps further and blame it on the overall setup of draft but that's way beyond the control of this team. Effort can make up for the lack of talent to a certain degree, but when the talent gap is such a tremendous gulf, there's really not much you can achieve. It's like if someone like Michael Ferland tries 1,000% and he'll still get his ass handed to him on a platter against McD or Draisaitl.

BB and Pettersson are PROBABLY able to fill in the elite talent role? But that's still largely unknown.

Would it matter if he did have elite talent considering what he started with? He's had to replace an entire team and fill a prospect pool. Did you really expect that to happen in 4 drafts? I didn't. And getting kicked in the lottery balls hasn't helped. His best prospects in Utica when he took over were Shinkaruk, Jensen, and Corrado. Three years later none of them are NHL players. Horvat stepped in faster than expected and Hutton was certainly a pleasant surprise but that's not much of a starting point to rebuild an entire team. Then you add in the problem that picks are typically two years away from even being able to play in Utica and you can see the problem he has had for depth players.

As far as competing is concerned it's a team game. The team has managed to compete for a playoff spot the past two years until injuries piled up. This is the first time since Benning took over there's a few decent players in Utica to call up when those injuries occur.

 

[Pip]

Benning was also handed the 6th overall pick where he passed on two superstar players to pick Jake Virtanen. Plus the trade chip of Kesler which should have returned a high end young asset.

 

[Jessep]

Benning was also handed the 6th overall pick where he passed on two superstar players to pick Jake Virtanen.

Plus the trade chip of Kesler which should have returned a high end young asset.

So did the Isles and Canes.

Just how much negotiating power do you think you have when you can only deal with one team?

 

[WTG]

Benning was also handed the 6th overall pick where he passed on two superstar players to pick Jake Virtanen. Plus the trade chip of Kesler which should have returned a high end young asset.

Hey, i liked McCann! I even bought his jersey

 

[WTG]

So did the Isles and Canes.

Just how much negotiating power do you think you have when you can only deal with one team?

If benning had the 5th overall pick and picked MDC i would defend that pick. MDC was BPA, Virtanen wasnt.

Picking BPA and having a bust >>>> not picking BPA and losing out on a star player