Discussing the McLellan postgame

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Exhibit A: Nurse. Being ruined as we speak.

Nurse was playing hard minutes to start the year and that was a mistake. That is a good example.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Yes because every night the 1st line is the best line..Ah, that's what I've been missing...You're assuming because he doesn't always play #1 or #2 line that it's easy competition? No wonder...

Never mind...I get it now...

What are you even talking about now. So Schultz should of started playing 0 minutes a night playing against no one because he might have to play against someone who might be playing good?

 

[Digger12]

"qualcomp" is a great concept.

How "qualcomp" is measured? Your mileage may vary as you can make an argument that the entire foundation of the measurement is built on sand, and therefore of dubious real value.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Nurse was playing hard minutes to start the year and that was a mistake. That is a good example.

It's baffling to me that they're developing Davidson, a 6/7 guy, properly and Nurse, a top 4, improperly.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Actually i use numbers myself BUT you cant just use numbers in a vacuum and then extrapolate that to opinions regarding other player in other scenarios and then claim its bullet proof.

Thats just silliness.

How am i using it in a vacuum. I am comparing it to the other players he is playing with to show a point that he was being sheltered while getting top 4 minutes

 

[guymez]

You said playing top 4 minutes is bad for a rookie. I am showing you it isn't as long as the player can be sheltered and isn't 18

I did and its true. Top 4 minutes are not an effective way to develop a rookie dman.
You have not proven that to be false at all.
All you have managed to do is to post some exceptions but that doesn mean your exceptions are the rule. They arent.

Every scenario has its own challenges and its own set of variables that makes them poor comparisons.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

It's baffling to me that they're developing Davidson, a 6/7 guy, properly and Nurse, a top 4, improperly.

Nurse came in hot so they played him higher.

Davidson came in cold and got better as the year got on and got more ice time.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I did and its true. Top 4 minutes are not an effective way to develop a rookie dman.
You have not proven that to be false at all.
All you have managed to do is to post some exceptions but that doesn mean your exceptions are the rule. They arent.

Every scenario has its own challenges and its own set of variables that makes them poor comparisons.

Okay then. Show me 21 year old dmen who come into the league after going the full college experience and were ruined due to top 4 ice time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Nurse came in hot so they played him higher.

Davidson came in cold and got better as the year got on and got more ice time.

And Nurse has cooled off considerably.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

And Nurse has cooled off considerably.

And is playing less than before..

 

[McDNicks17]

Huh?
Petry/Smid was hardly one of the best top pairing tandems in the NHL. Hardly even a legit top pairing combo...more like a solid 2nd pairing on any decent team. You are using a 48 game season to arrive at faulty conclusions.

So for you Smid went from being a solid top pairing dman to an expendable player in 1 year? Nonsense.

The point is the Schultz should have been playing bottom pairing minutes from day 1.
Not 2nd pairing minutes (behind a suspect top pair) which was forced on him by the roster inadequacies.

Statistically, they were that season.

Very few pairings played more minutes, against tougher competition and allowed less goals.


There was no way Schultz was going to start on the 3rd pairing after the AHL season he had. And there was no one complaining he wasn't at that time.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Statistically, they were that season.

Very few pairings played more minutes, against tougher competition and allowed less goals.


There was no way Schultz was going to start on the 3rd pairing after the AHL season he had. And there was no one complaining he wasn't at that time.

Schultz even looked good in those minutes that season.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It's baffling to me that they're developing Davidson, a 6/7 guy, properly and Nurse, a top 4, improperly.

Don't you make me post the Ristolainen 2014-15 and Nurse 2015-16 warrior charts again.

Buffalo didn't ruin Risto and Edmonton isn't ruining Nurse.

 

[Oilfan2]

What are you even talking about now. So Schultz should of started playing 0 minutes a night playing against no one because he might have to play against someone who might be playing good?

Last comment and I'm done...

Take last night..who, in your opinion was the best Ottawa line? Listed #1 or #2?

Well, in my opinion, it was the #3 line with Smith, Pageau and Chiasson. Guess who played against them majority of the time?

You think the reason they were the best line was because they were playing Schultz? What about the other 4 players on the ice? You don't think that's quality comp? You think anyone captured that?

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Fourier]

"qualcomp" is a great concept.

How "qualcomp" is measured? Your mileage may vary as you can make an argument that the entire foundation of the measurement is built on sand, and therefore of dubious real value.

I have no faith in qualcomp for assessing individual players. The stat is far too susceptible to distortion.

 

[Psychoil]

Don't you make me post the Ristolainen 2014-15 and Nurse 2015-16 warrior charts again.

Buffalo didn't ruin Risto and Edmonton isn't ruining Nurse.

No but they are in danger of ruining nurse. If he spends another year on this team with no insulation he is in very deep danger of spoiling his potential

 

[Suxnet]

Statistically, they were that season.

Very few pairings played more minutes, against tougher competition and allowed less goals.


There was no way Schultz was going to start on the 3rd pairing after the AHL season he had. And there was no one complaining he wasn't at that time.

OT but I have to give that Smid-Petry pairing some love. They were great and so underrated even by our own fans. They were amazing at preventing high quality scoring chances -- against tough competition too. One of the big reasons why Dudnyk had decent numbers.

Petry never looked as good after Smid was traded, and that was the beginning of the end for him. **** you MacT.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

RelQoC is actually pretty accurate to see what players play against the better players on a nightly basis.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

No but they are in danger of ruining nurse. If he spends another year on this team with no insulation he is in very deep danger of spoiling his potential

If our defence is in the same situation it is now come puck drop on the 2016 season I'll be the first person calling for Chiarelli's head.

 

[dharmaboy]

I got free tix to the Anaheim game last week. Free...Red Seats....and I had to ho and hum over if I was going to waste my time with going to the game. A few expensive drinks later, it was still a waste of time.

People just sit there, on their phones disinterested in the game being played in front of them. Everyone sits like a drone, glancing at their phones from time to time.

The games are so boring. I heckled a few times, calling Kessler a bum but nobody says anything or talks. they just sit there.

Even when they sucked in the 90s it was a bit more entertaining with the fans. People used to heckle and people jeered at the bad guys.

Oh well.

 

[Stoneman89]

OT but I have to give that Smid-Petry pairing some love. They were great and so underrated even by our own fans. They were amazing at preventing high quality scoring chances -- against tough competition too. One of the big reasons why Dudnyk had decent numbers.

Petry never looked as good after Smid was traded, and that was the beginning of the end for him. **** you MacT.

Smid was just amazing, passing the puck back and forth to Petry until Petry took off and did something with it.

 

[Stoneman89]

I got free tix to the Anaheim game last week. Free...Red Seats....and I had to ho and hum over if I was going to waste my time with going to the game. A few expensive drinks later, it was still a waste of time.

People just sit there, on their phones disinterested in the game being played in front of them. Everyone sits like a drone, glancing at their phones from time to time.

The games are so boring. I heckled a few times, calling Kessler a bum but nobody says anything or talks. they just sit there.

Even when they sucked in the 90s it was a bit more entertaining with the fans. People used to heckle and people jeered at the bad guys.

Oh well.

Hey, don't make fun of those educated Anaheim fans. The same ones that were booing Nick Schulz by mistake, thinking he was Justin.

 

[Stoneman89]

It's baffling to me that they're developing Davidson, a 6/7 guy, properly and Nurse, a top 4, improperly.

Not baffling at all. Davidson is 4 years older, and spent 2 full years in the minors, learning his craft. Unfortunately, Nurse has never had the benefit of any of that.

 

[Spawn]

Don't you make me post the Ristolainen 2014-15 and Nurse 2015-16 warrior charts again.

Buffalo didn't ruin Risto and Edmonton isn't ruining Nurse.

Man I am really starting to hate those warrior charts. So often they're used around here as some final judgement of a d-man. Doesn't take into account anything like quality of competition, quality of teammates, zone starts etc.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

No one ruined Schultz. Teams just figured out how to play him and he never adapted his game. He's soft so play physical against him and he'll fold and make boneheaded decisions rather than doing the simple thing like taking the body.

No point shot to speak of. Just a wristshot. NHL d-men will block that happily all day long and ask for seconds. Can't QB a powerplay because other teams now know that all they have to is apply a little pressure on him and he'll bobble the puck or make the wrong read and pass to the wrong guy.

Basically, the worst thing to happen to Schultz was that probably believed his own hype after being such a coveted player when he hit the market and him tearing up the AHL didn't do any favors for him either. He became complacent and most likely will be in Europe in no time. Dude is done.