Blue Jays Discussion: Dioner Navarro: The Anti-JP.

[topched]

Well when the Jays are calling about Samardzjia which I'm sure they have because they've been linked to him for the past year or so, who do you think they're going to ask for? Sure you may say " I don't think Norris will get moved" my answer would be for Samardzjia he would have to. I thought Colby could be a fit with the Cubs but I guess we'll have to move him somewhere else if Gose continues to play like this.

Samardzjia should be like 9-1 right now but he's 0-4..it's embarrassing the way the Cubs give him no support at all. 0-4 with an ERA of 1.46 LOL how is that even possible. Man Smardzjia...I feel for this guy, the sooner he gets traded the better it is for both parties.

Agreed about Samardzija needing to be moved and being a great fit.

But as for Colby fitting with the Cubs, they'd probably rather have Gose than Colby... and neither would have much value. They're looking for top level prospects.

 

[Eyedea]

19-28, bottom 5 farm system, likely going to have a fire sale in a month's time, is this the end of the Rays?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

19-28, bottom 5 farm system, likely going to have a fire sale in a month's time, is this the end of the Rays?

Depends on what they can get for Price. They have to trade him and hope guys like Moore can come back healthy and help them out in future years. They should still have a good enough rotation and still have Longoria. Wil Myers is young and struggling but still possess a ton of potential so I don't think they're done but they need to get back to drafting and developing.

 

[Eyedea]

Also, interesting to note (even though it's a year old) that there were rumours of Dwight Smith Jr moving over to second base. I wonder how the organization still feels about that and if it is still in the cards for him.

And if anybody was wondering, the record for home runs in May is 17 by Barry Bonds. Encarnacion is 4 away from cracking the top 10:

1. Barry Bonds, 17 HR, May of 2001
2. Mickey Mantle, 16, 1956
2. Mark McGwire, 16, 1998
4. Cy Williams, 15, 1923
4. Babe Ruth, 15, 1928
4. Harmon Killebrew, 15, 1959
4. Frank Howard, 15, 1968
4. Mark McGwire, 15, 1987
4. Ken Griffey Jr., 15, 1994

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Also, interesting to note (even though it's a year old) that there were rumours of Dwight Smith Jr moving over to second base. I wonder how the organization still feels about that and if it is still in the cards for him.

You typically don't see LF being moved to 2B (he wasn't really projected to stick at CF) and I think he is far too along to suddenly start playing 2B.

 

[Stats01]

19-28, bottom 5 farm system, likely going to have a fire sale in a month's time, is this the end of the Rays?

For this year they probably are. It's nice to see. I wonder if this continues for a few more years if Longoria would want out. He signed there long term at a discounted salary..if he's going to do that for the franchise I'm pretty sure he wants at least to play on a competitive team. There are two main things a player IMO lives by. 1. Am I being paid by my market value, #2. is the team competitive. Longoria gave up option #1 with that long term deal, so 2. comes into play, this year they're not competitive and if they're not competitive down the road then Longoria may end up saying get me the hell out of here. Look at what Halladay did. Contract after contract he gave a discount for the Jays after a while he said forget this I gave up market value to stay here I at least want to be on a contender. Most players are willing to play on crappy teams as long as they're getting paid market value. But if you're not and the team is ****** then the player is more than likely thinking wtf is going on here.

 

[Eyedea]

You typically don't see LF being moved to 2B (he wasn't really projected to stick at CF) and I think he is far too along to suddenly start playing 2B.

They were having him take reps at 2B last year but any sort of rumours of him changing positions seems to have died down. To be honest, I think with his advanced approach of the game he could stick it out there. Guy just seems like a gamer.

For this year they probably are. It's nice to see. I wonder if this continues for a few more years if Longoria would want out. He signed there long term at a discounted salary..if he's going to do that for the franchise I'm pretty sure he wants at least to play on a competitive team. There are two main things a player IMO lives by. 1. Am I being paid by my market value, #2. is the team competitive. Longoria gave up option #1 with that long term deal, so 2. comes into play, this year they're not competitive and if they're not competitive down the road then Longoria may end up saying get me the hell out of here. Look at what Halladay did. Contract after contract he gave a discount for the Jays after a while he said forget this I gave up market value to stay here I at least want to be on a contender. Most players are willing to play on crappy teams as long as they're getting paid market value. But if you're not and the team is ****** then the player is more than likely thinking wtf is going on here.

If Longo goes, they're essentially the '07 Devil Rays. Moving a guy like Price would provide them with necessary depth and talent, but it seems like they're making their way into a place they don't want to end up. They keep going down this path and they could literally be gone because there's nothing beneficial about that team right now.

 

[canucksfan]

19-28, bottom 5 farm system, likely going to have a fire sale in a month's time, is this the end of the Rays?

Had no idea they were bottom five.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

They were having him take reps at 2B last year but any sort of rumours of him changing positions seems to have died down. To be honest, I think with his advanced approach of the game he could stick it out there. Guy just seems like a gamer.

Agreed. His bat seems good enough for a corner OF (the LF position honestly seems weak every year for some reason). My hope is Melky type player, good for avg, some power, could draw more walks than Melky and seems to be fine defensively.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Had no idea they were bottom five.

Their drafts have been terrible since like 07/08. A lot of their trades have been their saving grace for years. That and turning every reliever into gold.

 

[Stats01]

Speaking of the draft we hold the 9th and 11th picks in the draft. Much needed replenishment of the system a bit. AA has to sign them though, we've had issues in 2 of the past 3 years with our first rounders. If you're going to draft them, ****ing sign them.

 

[Stats01]

Also for everyone who was complaining about the farm system being down...Baseball Prospectus had the Jays farm system at #13 before the season started and in the report said the farm system's trajectory is going up and by the start of 2015 they say it should be in the top 10. That's pretty damn good considering how much talent we've given up over the past year and a bit.

This is their report.

13. Toronto Blue Jays
Farm System Ranking in 2013: 13
2014 Top Ten Prospects: Link
State of the System: Despite a recent penchant for using prospects as currency to acquire major-league talent, the Jays system remains thick with high-ceiling players on both sides of the ball.
Top Prospect: Marcus Stroman (27)
Breakout Candidates for 2014: Miguel Castro and Mitch Nay
Prospects on the BP 101: 3
Must-See Affiliate: Low-A Lansing
Prospects to See There: Alberto Tirado, DJ Davis, Chase DeJong, Jairo Labourt, Mitch Nay, Matt Dean, Rowdy Telez
Farm System Trajectory for 2015: Up. The Jays have some of the best young prospect depth in baseball, and as the short-season talent start to develop at the full-season level, the system as a whole should jump into the top 10, where they are likely to stay for a very long time.


Now add in the #9 and the #11 picks this year and there is no reason why we can't be back in the top 8-10 next year.

 

[Stats01]

Here is Tampa's


26. Tampa Bay Rays
Farm System Ranking in 2013: 8
2014 Top Ten Prospects: Link
State of the System: Major league graduations and a slew of injuries to key prospects have the Rays toward the back of the pack of all farm systems in the game.
Top Prospect: Enny Romero (90)
Breakout Candidates for 2014: Nick Ciuffo and Blake Snell
Prospects on the BP 101: 2
Must-See Affiliate: Triple-A Durham
Prospects to See There: Enny Romero, Jake Odorizzi, Alex Colome, Hak-Ju Lee, Nate Karns, Kevin Kiermaier, Matt Ramsey
Farm System Trajectory for 2015: Down. Based on the fact that the must-see affiliate is Triple-A, the Rays are likely to lose a healthy chunk of talent to the majors in 2014, taking a slice out of an already shaky farm system.

Yikes! When your must see affiliate is your triple-A team, that tells you all you need to know about your farm system.

They've gone from #8 to #26 in a year but granted that has a lot to do with graduating prospects to the big club.

 

[Puckstuff]

Well when the Jays are calling about Samardzjia which I'm sure they have because they've been linked to him for the past year or so, who do you think they're going to ask for? Sure you may say " I don't think Norris will get moved" my answer would be for Samardzjia he would have to. I thought Colby could be a fit with the Cubs but I guess we'll have to move him somewhere else if Gose continues to play like this.

Samardzjia should be like 9-1 right now but he's 0-4..it's embarrassing the way the Cubs give him no support at all. 0-4 with an ERA of 1.46 LOL how is that even possible. Man Smardzjia...I feel for this guy, the sooner he gets traded the better it is for both parties.

I think going forward we need 3 things. A DH that can smash lefties, a second basemen and a starter. I don't expect all of these but 2/3 would be nice. It should have been addressed in the summer, but I guess they weren't sold. However with the record and the current standings in the AL East one would assume they are now at least tempted in the possibility of trading prospects for an opportunity to take advantage of the division at it's weakest. If Gose proves he's the real deal and you have to trade a Rasmus for an Aaron Hill or another competent 2B I say do it... I would trade some of the higher rated prospects for shark... The potential of the Jays missing the playoffs after these moves just doesn't seem probable. The offense is to good, Hutchinson and Buerhle are for real, Dickey is a solid 3-4 that will give you a chance and give you innings and adding a front of the rotation starting pitcher gives us the best rotation in the division along with the most potent offense with the best defense and a bullpen that could potentially be very good... McGowan is already a nice addition and they will be adding Morrow and Wagner while rogers will eventually be released. Go get another starter and put your self in a good position to win the East for the first time since 93... It's worth the risk, you have to take a chance eventually. Look at Boston... last year they took a risk and it paid off for them. We're not Oakland and we're not TB, it takes certain personal and many years to do what they have done... and quite honestly we're pretty much the opposite. If we have to win the dodger, Yankees or red sox way just ****ing do it, this fan base is literally starved for success and the growth opportunities this fan base could see are insane... If this team is IN IT and trades are made you would see the dome filling up again for the last 2-3 months of the season. If this core doesn't do it this year, it's not happening for this group and their headed for another rebuild anyways. In this scenario then you blow it up and you can re-coup any prospects lost... Bautista, Edwin, Cabrera, Buerhle, Dickey, Janssen etc can get this team a top 5 farm if it doesn't work out... But I simply don't see it not working out I mean look at that lineup. Or..... just don't do anything and finish 84-78 and not see any increases!! it's a game of a poker will they make the big bet to get the full pot (playoffs and attendance growth) or not do **** and just live in mediocrity of the last 20 years... I really hope they do like ****...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Just a couple things from the post above;

- Pretty sure Morrow will return as a starter. They have not said anything about him being in the bullpen when he comes back in July.
- As of June 6th, the farm system may very well be ranked in the top five in baseball
- As for the Boston taking a risk last year, they really didn't risk much. They kept their core together, signed some veteran free agents and traded a back up short stop for Jake Peavy

 

[Stats01]

I think going forward we need 3 things. A DH that can smash lefties, a second basemen and a starter. I don't expect all of these but 2/3 would be nice. It should have been addressed in the summer, but I guess they weren't sold. However with the record and the current standings in the AL East one would assume they are now at least tempted in the possibility of trading prospects for an opportunity to take advantage of the division at it's weakest. If Gose proves he's the real deal and you have to trade a Rasmus for an Aaron Hill or another competent 2B I say do it... I would trade some of the higher rated prospects for shark... The potential of the Jays missing the playoffs after these moves just doesn't seem probable. The offense is to good, Hutchinson and Buerhle are for real, Dickey is a solid 3-4 that will give you a chance and give you innings and adding a front of the rotation starting pitcher gives us the best rotation in the division along with the most potent offense with the best defense and a bullpen that could potentially be very good... McGowan is already a nice addition and they will be adding Morrow and Wagner while rogers will eventually be released. Go get another starter and put your self in a good position to win the East for the first time since 93... It's worth the risk, you have to take a chance eventually. Look at Boston... last year they took a risk and it paid off for them. We're not Oakland and we're not TB, it takes certain personal and many years to do what they have done... and quite honestly we're pretty much the opposite. If we have to win the dodger, Yankees or red sox way just ****ing do it, this fan base is literally starved for success and the growth opportunities this fan base could see are insane... If this team is IN IT and trades are made you would see the dome filling up again for the last 2-3 months of the season. If this core doesn't do it this year, it's not happening for this group and their headed for another rebuild anyways. In this scenario then you blow it up and you can re-coup any prospects lost... Bautista, Edwin, Cabrera, Buerhle, Dickey, Janssen etc can get this team a top 5 farm if it doesn't work out... But I simply don't see it not working out I mean look at that lineup. Or..... just don't do anything and finish 84-78 and not see any increases!! it's a game of a poker will they make the big bet to get the full pot (playoffs and attendance growth) or not do **** and just live in mediocrity of the last 20 years... I really hope they do like ****...

With the farm system projected to be in the top 10 by next year any type of full blown rebuild would put us back in the top 3-5. Our farm system is really solid right now as it is. I would hate to give up Sanchez or Norris for Shark but man just the thought of him at the top of our rotation is intriguing. He pitched extremely well against the Yankees last night. He'd definitely put us in a position where we control our own destiny.

I would love if we were buyers at the trade deadline and in contention. All we've wanted was meaningful baseball in September and obviously the first step is to be in the race by the deadline/all-star break then after that make a few moves to bolster the team and go for it. We're not going to have an opportunity like this next year IMO. The AL East is there for the taking. I say go for it. I want playoff baseball for the first time in 20 years

 

[Stats01]

by the way Arencibia was sent down by Texas..I wonder if he's going to blame the Texas media this time.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseb...ue_jays_catcher_demoted_by_texas_rangers.html

He was terrible last season and he's been terrible this year.

 

[Swervin81]

We're only a month and a half in and one losing streak away from dropping right back. No rash decisions. I'm not too concerned about 2B because of the fact that our offense is elite as is. As long as 2B can provide solid defense and prolong AB's andhave a good eye at the plate, I'm not overly concerned. Francisco and Tolleson are both hitting well anyways. I'd rather bolster up the rotation because I still have my doubts about it. Buehrle has been beyond amazing, Dickey and Hutch have been solid, and even Happ has been decent. We need 2 quality inning eating starters IMO. The pen has been godawful, but that is easy to fix and is actually really a crapshoot. Plus, with McGowan likely to move to the pen (and Morrow if he comes back this season) there will be reinforcements.

If I were AA, I'd first look for 2 quality starters that can eat innings (less workload for the pen and I still don't trust Happ) and a quality 2B if there is one to be had out there on the cheap. Remember when we traded Jeff Kent for David Cone? Kent ended up becoming a HoF 2B in San Francisco, we won the WS. I'd love a Shark or Price or Shields (the latter of whom intrigues me the most with his inning eating ability), but how much will it cost. We aren't one piece away from putting ourselves way over the top here. The pen will likely work itself out (apart from Rogers, who should be DFA'd or at least never played unless it's garbage time).

 

[Ronald Ocean]

Am I the only one thinking the Jays are going to reach with both their picks? Seems like they always go way off the board.

 

[theaub]

All I know is if the Jays are still in contention in July and they try to flip Morrow coming back into 'its like acquiring a starter at the deadline!' I'm just going to flip my s***

And like, you know its happening. You don't want to believe it, but you know.

 

[Ronald Ocean]

0.80 ERA for Norris in 9 starts, 2.98 in 10 for Sanchez.

But Sanchez walks so many guys, feel like hes going to be a morrow 2.0, hope I'm wrong.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Am I the only one thinking the Jays are going to reach with both their picks? Seems like they always go way off the board.

Ummm...when?

 

[Ronald Ocean]

Ummm...when?

Haven't looked into it much to be honest but I'm thinking DJ Davis, Bickford and Beede.