Dion Phaneuf

[My Sweet Shadow]

As a purely statistical approach:

Among the Canadian defensemen not on Team Canada, Phaneuf is:

T-11th in goals
T-9th in points
T-6th in +/-
T-9th in PPP
5th in TOI/GM
6th in SH TOI/GM
5th in PP TOI/GM
1st in Corsi Rel QoC (among ALL defensemen)
1st in Def Zone Start % (also among ALL defensemen)

There aren't many defensemen in the league who are relied on as heavily both offensively and defensively as Phaneuf, and even fewer who are anywhere near as successful. If it wasn't for the Leafs' huge slump leading up to the roster selection, he probably would have been in consideration for the actual team, so I would easily put Phaneuf among the top 14 Canadian d-men in the league.

 

[Run705]

Safe to say the game has passed Don Cherry by.

He's still very knowledgeable. He was on Prime Time Sports recently and he surprised me how much knowledge he (still) has, just has trouble pronouncing names.

 

[FlareKnight]

Can't say I'm quite with that opinion. Should be able to fit him over someone in that group. Nothing wrong with someone who can play PP/PK and be put up against talented forwards while doing a good job of holding them back.

Oh well, just something else to disagree with Cherry about.

 

[Zonk]

It has been said many times that an Olympic team does not always include the best players. The selection is based on picking players to fill specific roles. In addition, a player who is great on a North American ice surface can struggle on the larger European rinks. I suspect that Phaneuf's skating is a major factor in why he is not considered.

 

[Quares27]

It's funny because Hockey Canada cared so much about having guys on their proper side that they took Vlasic and Hamhuis over more deserving guys and yet Cherry has 5 right handers on his team

 

[Raging Bull]

He's still very knowledgeable. He was on Prime Time Sports recently and he surprised me how much knowledge he (still) has, just has trouble pronouncing names.

Judging by his comments on Kulemin, it doesn't seem like he watches that many Leaf games anymore.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Who cares...

Canada has so many Dman of the same ilk. Bieksa = Phaneuff. Just Phaneuff is on a better team.

 

[hockeystick89]

Yesterday on Grapeline Cherry made a team consisting of guys he would put on Team Canada if they brought a 2nd team over. His defense was:

Boyle-Seabrook
Giordano-Letang
Bieksa-Green

What do you think? I know he likes Bieksa and Phaneuf would be on the team over him realistically, plus a couple other guys (at least) but does Cherry not like Phaneuf?

Every single one of those guys are better skaters than Phaneuf. All of them, except Letang and Green(who just flat out sucks) are better defensively as well. I guess people will be insulted that I rank Seabrook and Bieksa higher, but neither of them have as many of those "WTF was that?" moments that Dion has on NHL ice, I can't imagine he would fare any better on the international ice.

 

[yubbers]

Why is it that plus minus is only a viable stat when praising Dion. The minute I bring it up its the most skewed statistic around that means nothing. Without his plus minus. Dion looks horrible on paper for 7 mil

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

Every single one of those guys are better skaters than Phaneuf. All of them, except Letang and Green(who just flat out sucks) are better defensively as well. I guess people will be insulted that I rank Seabrook and Bieksa higher, but neither of them have as many of those "WTF was that?" moments that Dion has on NHL ice, I can't imagine he would fare any better on the international ice.

I'm sure many on the Canucks board would argue that.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1578093

He's roaming in the defensive zone, leaving forwards to pick players up in front of the net. He's mis-handling the puck terribly (the prevalence of this makes me think an injury is a real possibility). He's had a few instances of being casual. He's been directly responsible for an avalanche of goals recently. I don't know if the increased minutes diminish his effectiveness but its a definite possibility (it takes a lot more energy to play with snarl than to play a positional game like Tanev/Hamhuis).

Earlier in the season Bieksa's gaffes were more than made up for with chances that worked out. Problem is, you can't expect bad to borderline decisions to go your way the entire season, and lately they're not.

He commits a tonne of giveaways lately, that would be my main complaint. In fact his 41 giveaways on the year lead the team by a solid margin. As usual, if he could be a little smarter with the puck, he'd be much more effective.

I said that Bieksa's offensive game early in the season masked his deficiencies, but he's been atrocious at both ends of the ice since. He's our version of Dion Phaneuf. High risk, high reward. Will just never get it when it comes to his own end of the rink. If he's not contributing offensively, the defensive gaffes are magnified.

The thing with Juice is that since he's been a Canuck he has notoriously been a hot and cold player. So when he is going through a lull in the season it's just a blemish in his game that doesn't elevate him to a top 2 defender. I really don't think he's playing as bad as some people think. He does make a lot of mistakes in spurts it seems, but it's always been that way - We shouldn't assume he's injured I feel like it's a lame excuse.

This was all about 3 weeks ago. You could take a lot of these posts and replace Bieksa's name with Phaneuf pretty easily.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'm sure many on the Canucks board would argue that.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1578093


This was all about 3 weeks ago. You could take a lot of these posts and replace Bieksa's name with Phaneuf pretty easily.

How about we change that name to Franson?

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

How about we change that name to Franson?

I guess that could also work...though it doesn't really relate to the conversation.

 

[JimmyPower]

The highest paid tweener in the league. Not great at offense. Not great at defense. In between.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Why is it that plus minus is only a viable stat when praising Dion. The minute I bring it up its the most skewed statistic around that means nothing. Without his plus minus. Dion looks horrible on paper for 7 mil

The +/- metric is useless on its own. Context is what matters.

Dion was on a shut down unit with two AHL-level partners, and that is obviously going to throw him off. He was the only defenceman exclusively used in a shut down role, and the forwards up front included Grabovski @ -10 and Kulemin @ -5. That is obviously going to drag you down in the end especially with very little production up front.

 

[FriedEgg]

If we are talking who are the best players, dion would be in that second group. If we're talking a 2nd team to send to the Olympics, I would take grapes' d. Dion on the big ice would scare me. On north American ice, I'd feel more comfortable with dion.

 

[yubbers]

I gotta admit my dislike of him has faded slightly. Still don't like the C on him. I was thinking about it though and he's essentially switched his game. From offensive to defensive. Understandable if there's some adjustment with that. My initial thoughts were he's hammin it up in a contract year. Convenient. his defensive numbers are good. And lately it seems like he might maintain them. Playoffs this year are crucial. That's when we'll see what his new game is really made of.

 

[WillNyeTheHockeyGuy]

If we are talking who are the best players, dion would be in that second group. If we're talking a 2nd team to send to the Olympics, I would take grapes' d. Dion on the big ice would scare me. On north American ice, I'd feel more comfortable with dion.

I have to agree with this. The big ice was a huge reason why Dion wasn't part of it. Obviously, the top 6 selected are better, but skating must have been a huge concern by Yzerman and co.

 

[Confucius]

So Phaneuf logs and ton of minutes for us, our D is crap, I agree with Don, phaneuf couldn't make the B team for Canada.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's still very knowledgeable. He was on Prime Time Sports recently and he surprised me how much knowledge he (still) has, just has trouble pronouncing names.

I agree. There was a time maybe 10 years ago or so when I thought he had become almost a parody of himself but he seems a lot better these days, almost like a rebirth. No question he understands the game as well as anybody else and does a good job of explaining it. What I love most of all and a big reason why I have a boatload of respect for him is that he tells it like it is - who else does that?

I love watching him and predict that the people criticizing him will miss him when he's gone.

I have to agree with this. The big ice was a huge reason why Dion wasn't part of it. Obviously, the top 6 selected are better, but skating must have been a huge concern by Yzerman and co.

Of course. The Olympics are so different from the NHL. I'm thrilled he didn't get picked, he could use the rest.

 

[DD03]

I agree. There was a time maybe 10 years ago or so when I thought he had become almost a parody of himself but he seems a lot better these days, almost like a rebirth. No question he understands the game as well as anybody else and does a good job of explaining it. What I love most of all and a big reason why I have a boatload of respect for him is that he tells it like it is - who else does that?

I love watching him and predict that the people criticizing him will miss him when he's gone.



Of course. The Olympics are so different from the NHL. I'm thrilled he didn't get picked, he could use the rest.

This. One good thing about our team not getting picked a lot for the Olympics. Teams like the Red Wings, Penguins and stuff, all their players are going to be drained going over to Sochi playing their hearts out and coming back into playoff hockey. Some of our key pieces are going to be able to rest their body parts and come back fresh.

 

[TheThrill81*]

So Phaneuf logs and ton of minutes for us, our D is crap, I agree with Don, phaneuf couldn't make the B team for Canada.

What?

Our d is subpar despite Phaneuf logging a ton of minutes. He is the only reason it's not even worse. Not many defencemen in the league could do what he does, with the minutes he plays, in all situations.

 

[Confucius]

So if Mark Fraser got a decent prospect and a nothing prospect... we should be able to get like a bad contract for Phaneuf right?

What decent prospect? Neither player will ever play a game for us.

 

[diceman934]

Love Don Cherry.....

 

[KuleminFan41]

Judging by his comments on Kulemin, it doesn't seem like he watches that many Leaf games anymore.

What was he wrong about? Kulemin was to blame for the goal, he can't score anymore, although him saying he doesn't hit is unfair although Lupul and JVR are relatively close to passing him on the team in hits so there is that.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

As a purely statistical approach:

Among the Canadian defensemen not on Team Canada, Phaneuf is:

T-11th in goals
T-9th in points
T-6th in +/-
T-9th in PPP
5th in TOI/GM
6th in SH TOI/GM
5th in PP TOI/GM
1st in Corsi Rel QoC (among ALL defensemen)
1st in Def Zone Start % (also among ALL defensemen)

There aren't many defensemen in the league who are relied on as heavily both offensively and defensively as Phaneuf, and even fewer who are anywhere near as successful. If it wasn't for the Leafs' huge slump leading up to the roster selection, he probably would have been in consideration for the actual team, so I would easily put Phaneuf among the top 14 Canadian d-men in the league.

Why are you wasting your time? Dion Phaneuf is clearly a "top 14 Canadian d-man" hell, I think he'd have a pretty easy time being considered a top 15 NHL d-man.