Dion Phaneuf

[TheThrill81*]

You disagree, but that just means you are wrong.

I believe that you think you're right. I would be wrong to believe otherwise.

 

[jimmycarter]

he's okay all around.

he isn't as bad as every other team fans say, he isn't as good as his contract suggests.

he's best when he has an assignment to shut down a specific opposing player.

 

[ACC1224]

You disagree, but that just means you are wrong.

I believe that you think you're right. I would be wrong to believe otherwise.

This exchange made me think of this line.

Hey you
You¹ve been around for a while
If you'll admit that you were wrong
Then we¹ll admit that we¹re right

 

[Gobias Industries]

This exchange made me think of this line.

Good man.

Of all the songs that I could have stuck in my head this morning, I'm glad you made it that one!

 

[notdoneyet]

I believe that you think you're right. I would be wrong to believe otherwise.

I actually think I was wrong once but I could be mistaken about that

 

[KULEMINakajesus]

I'm far from a dion's biggest fan but IMO he's played quite a bit better this year. THe best part of his defensive game is probably down low in the corners. He probably has a below avg breakout pass and he used to routeinly lose his coverage in front of the net but I haven't noticed that happening this year.

Is he the ideal dman to have at his future cap hit? Absolutely not, but right now he's our best dman.

 

[hatterson]

I'm far from a dion's biggest fan but IMO he's played quite a bit better this year. THe best part of his defensive game is probably down low in the corners. He probably has a below avg breakout pass and he used to routeinly lose his coverage in front of the net but I haven't noticed that happening this year.

Is he the ideal dman to have at his future cap hit? Absolutely not, but right now he's our best dman.

I think he plays much better when he's told it's his job to shut down a specific player or line on the opposition. He's been great and shutting down Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, etc. when he's been straight up on them.

When he's given a little more free reign he tends to pinch a little too much and try and push things, which exposes him more defensively and his lack of speed can bite him.

Is he an "ideal" $7M dman, no. But he's worth the contract imo, especially given the ever increasing cap.

 

[Faltorvo]

I think he plays much better when he's told it's his job to shut down a specific player or line on the opposition. He's been great and shutting down Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, etc. when he's been straight up on them.

When he's given a little more free reign he tends to pinch a little too much and try and push things, which exposes him more defensively and his lack of speed can bite him.

Is he an "ideal" $7M dman, no. But he's worth the contract imo, especially given the ever increasing cap.

I won't be ok with his cap hit until the others start to catch up to him and his cap hit gets closer to where he slots among the leagues top D.

Having the 5th highest D cap hit is disturbing.

 

[hatterson]

I won't be ok with his cap hit until the others start to catch up to him and his cap hit gets closer to where he slots among the leagues top D.

Having the 5th highest D cap hit is disturbing.

True, but as others stars reupping their deals in a couple years that'll be normal.

I look at it this way. If every dman in the league were in the same situation as Dion and signed an extension now, what would they get. I think $7M per would be in the 10-15 range for dmen which fits him perfectly.

 

[ACC1224]

I think he plays much better when he's told it's his job to shut down a specific player or line on the opposition. He's been great and shutting down Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, etc. when he's been straight up on them.

When he's given a little more free reign he tends to pinch a little too much and try and push things, which exposes him more defensively and his lack of speed can bite him.

Is he an "ideal" $7M dman, no. But he's worth the contract imo, especially given the ever increasing cap.

This is true. The better the opponent the better he plays, he's clutch in that regard.
He tends to have poorer games when there isn't that big gun on the other side to focus on.

His salary or performance isn't something any Leaf fan should be concerned with.

 

[Mess]

True, but as others stars reupping their deals in a couple years that'll be normal.

I look at it this way. If every dman in the league were in the same situation as Dion and signed an extension now, what would they get. I think $7M per would be in the 10-15 range for dmen which fits him perfectly.

Quite a logical and reasonable argument.

However with the cap equal for all teams then bang for your buck effects Cup competitiveness.

So while Leaf players are getting more than market based on where they stand contract wise today comparatively it effects the odds of winning the Cup more difficult for the Leafs. Winning the Cup is the goal.

Therein lies the problem for Leaf nation.

 

[Faltorvo]

True, but as others stars reupping their deals in a couple years that'll be normal.

I look at it this way. If every dman in the league were in the same situation as Dion and signed an extension now, what would they get. I think $7M per would be in the 10-15 range for dmen which fits him perfectly.

Well that's the rub, I have looked into who could out cap Dion in the next 3 years and that list is really really short.

I don't think Dions cap hit will ever, normalise.

Jumbo Joe and Marl capping in lower then Dion, how is that even possible?

He is not in their league.

 

[hatterson]

Quite a logical and reasonable argument.

However with the cap equal for all teams then bang for your buck effects Cup competitiveness.

So while Leaf players are getting more than market based on where they stand contract wise today comparatively it effects the odds of winning the Cup more difficult for the Leafs. Winning the Cup is the goal.

Therein lies the problem for Leaf nation.

Certainly, but 7M is a reasonable market value for a new contract, even if it's higher than current market value on an old contract. So the choice was either pay him or let him walk. And there's zero doubt in my mind that we're a better team with Dion at $7M than with no Dion

 

[yubbers]

Certainly, but 7M is a reasonable market value for a new contract, even if it's higher than current market value on an old contract. So the choice was either pay him or let him walk.

There always was and still is another option. If he's such a beast and feared by all coaches, trade him up. Everyone should be clamoring for him

 

[hatterson]

There always was and still is another option. If he's such a beast and feared by all coaches, trade him up. Everyone should be clamoring for him

Trading him would be absolutely giving up on our current season, not to mention setting us back for a few years in the future. He is easily our best defenseman and we have no one to replace him with apart from giving up valuable assets to get someone.

Guys his caliber and already signed aren't going to be traded unless its an overpayment and anyone we'll sign in UFA is either a decent step down, or would cost at least as much.

The only way the Leafs could have afforded to trade Dion would have been to basically say we're going to go into a 2-3 year retooling while our younger dmen get used to the NHL, that's not really a feasible thing to do after only making the playoffs once.

 

[TootooTrain]

There always was and still is another option. If he's such a beast and feared by all coaches, trade him up. Everyone should be clamoring for him

Why doesn't Chicago trade Keith, or Pheonix trade OEL since everyone wants them?

 

[yubbers]

Why doesn't Chicago trade Keith, or Pheonix trade OEL since everyone wants them?

Because Keith can actually lead.
And OEL is 22

 

[TootooTrain]

Because Keith can actually lead.
And OEL is 22

1) Not touching a topic that nobody can legitimately discuss accurately.

2) OEL may only be 22, but Dion's only 28. Not exactly a veteran. However since OEL is even younger, it's a no-brainer to trade him with his value so high according to you.

 

[TheThrill81*]

There always was and still is another option. If he's such a beast and feared by all coaches, trade him up. Everyone should be clamoring for him

Who is this other, magical option?

And if he's such a beast and feared by all coaches, the Leafs were smart to keep him. Glad to have Phaneuf aboard for 7 more years. Go Leafs Go!

 

[Griffski]

Why doesn't Chicago trade Keith, or Pheonix trade OEL since everyone wants them?

I get your point but Kieth and OEL are way better than phaneuf. Coaches don't "fear" phaneuf...

Phaneuf is mediocre. Statistically and if you just watch him. He's the worst leafs captain in history.
There's no real argument to be made.

He's not a terrible player by any means. He's solid. Not 7x7 leafs captain material though.

I'd trade him.

 

[gabeliscious]

Well that's the rub, I have looked into who could out cap Dion in the next 3 years and that list is really really short.

I don't think Dions cap hit will ever, normalise.

Jumbo Joe and Marl capping in lower then Dion, how is that even possible?

He is not in their league.

both are 34 years old and obviously took a little less to stay on a competitive team in SAN JOSE. if you could get a shade under $7 million to live/work in san jose >>>>> $7.5-8 million to play on crap team in boonies.

phaneuf didnt leave money on the table (obviously) but his contract is reasonable for what it brings.

imo phaneuf is ~15th overall defenseman being paid like a top 10. considering most of the top 10 are either cap circumventing contracts or rfa contracts i think his contract is reasonable.

 

[TheThrill81*]

I get your point but Kieth and OEL are way better than phaneuf. Coaches don't "fear" phaneuf...

Phaneuf is mediocre. Statistically and if you just watch him. He's the worst leafs captain in history.
There's no real argument to be made.

He's not a terrible player by any means. He's solid. Not 7x7 leafs captain material though.

I'd trade him.

I find it helps to use the emote for clarification.

 

[TootooTrain]

I get your point but Kieth and OEL are way better than phaneuf. Coaches don't "fear" phaneuf...

Phaneuf is mediocre. Statistically and if you just watch him. He's the worst leafs captain in history.
There's no real argument to be made.

He's not a terrible player by any means. He's solid. Not 7x7 leafs captain material though.

I'd trade him.

He has more value to us than he does to other teams. Which is why it makes sense that he will remain with us for 7 more years.

There's no real argument to be made, or you don't have any viable proof? Those type of blanket statements are what degrades that entire post. For the record, I don't have much proof either. None of us are on that ice or in the lockeroom. At very least from what we got to see during hbo 247 and how guys listen to him, he's at very least satisfactory as a captain.

 

[TheThrill81*]

He has more value to us than he does to other teams. Which is why it makes sense that he will remain with us for 7 more years.

There's no real argument to be made, or you don't have any viable proof? Those type of blanket statements are what degrades that entire post. For the record, I don't have much proof either. None of us are on that ice or in the lockeroom. At very least from what we got to see during hbo 247 and how guys listen to him, he's at very least satisfactory as a captain.

But is he 7-yrs/49mil satisfactory?

 

[yubbers]

1) Not touching a topic that nobody can legitimately discuss accurately.

2) OEL may only be 22, but Dion's only 28. Not exactly a veteran. However since OEL is even younger, it's a no-brainer to trade him with his value so high according to you.

1) I would agree and I think that's where so many of our opinions differ. Leadership is a tough thing to quantify on paper. That being said though, Keiths resume speaks for itself. One of the main reason our young guys haven't been excelling as they should is lack of leadership IMO. It will be nice when Bolland is back.

2) that's like us wanting to trade Kadri. If he's young and shows amazing potential, you have to be patient.

The answer IMO: (easy for armchair GMs like me to make difficult decisions when there's no repercussions if I'm wrong)

Trade Phaneuf. Obviously the return has to make sense. Bring in Boyle on a 3 yr contract for 6. Risky? Maybe considering his age. Who knows if he'd even consider leaving SJ. But we'd get a seasoned dman with all kinds of leadership abilities to help mold Gards and Reils. Not to mention not having dion for year 4,5,6,7 on the books