- Status
I was once a Suter supporter, but the more I see the two of them play, the more clear it becomes that Phaneuf is the best defensive prospect in the world right now, and he is widening the gap. It is not that Ryan Suter is doing anything wrong, its the fact that Phaneuf seems to be constantly improving and showing, at a top level, that he is dominant and capable of shutting down the world's best star players. Suter simply has not demonstrated that.
This thread is cracking me up. Its like there are a group of people that are Suter apologists out there. Suter had to play with this guy and that's why he sucked. Suter had to play on a weaker team, that's why he sucked. Suter had an in-grown toe nail, that's why he sucked. Face it, Suter sucked hard in two games (Russia and Belarus in the preliminary round) and was just bad in the semi's versus Russia. You don't step to the world stage and mess the bed like Suter did and get the accolades heaped on you IMO.
Suter showed that he was not a strong, nor smart defender, at times in this tournament, and it happened twice in very big games for Team USA. The excuses are BS. Suter had to play with an unheralded partner. Big deal. The great defenders play with who ever they are paired with and make them look good. They don't get made look bad by their partner. The U.S. team was not that strong. More bull. The U.S. team was the defending champion and had more than enough depth to defend their title according to many inthe pre-tournament build up. They supposedly had the best goaltending, were neck and neck with Canada for defenders and were mentioned as the best group of forwards as well. Team USA had more than enough horses. The problem was that their horses played like ponies.
On the other side of this coin is Phaneuf. He came to the WJC and played as billed. He did not have a single bad game and was a rock for the gold mendalist. If anyone questioned his smarts and abilities to play a thinking man's game, those concerns were put to rest with an exclamation point when he killed the 5 on 3 advantages the Russians had in the final. He played with an unherald defense partner (there was talk that Weber may not even make the team in camp) and now Weber is the talk of the town here (flavor of the week syndrome?). Phaneuf did what great defenders are supposed to do. Make their playing partner look capable.
There are those that say Suter has much more offensive upside. I just don't see it. He managed 8 points in 7 games. Phaneuf scored 6 in 6. Big difference? Not really. Suter is a better puck mover in his own zone, but as he put on display more than a few times in the tournament he can put tape to tape passes right onto the defender's sticks as well as his own players. Montoya can vouch for that as he picked two pucks out of his net as a result of miscalculated Suter passes. There is a difference between making a great pass and making a smart one. I'm not sure Suter has figured that one out. His uncle, Gary, was a great passer as well, just not the smartest passer. It appears this is a genetic thing and has been passed on to the next generation of Suter.
Frankly, Phaneuf is in a different class. He came to the world stage and has star has shone, twice. As the games got bigger, Phaneuf got better. Everyone that was partnered with him was a better player. Phaneuf was heads and tails above those he was playing against. Given a choice whether I would take Phaneuf or Suter, there is no decision to be made. I'd deal Suter for Phaneuf in a heartbeat and never look back. I take Phaneuf every day of the week and twice on game days. Suter was a huge disappointment to me and fell well back into the pack of defensive prospects (same can be said for Coburn as well). Of the big three, Phaneuf is a player that you want all your players to emulate. I wish Team USA had a dozen Phaneufs.
Suter showed that he was not a strong, nor smart defender, at times in this tournament, and it happened twice in very big games for Team USA. The excuses are BS. Suter had to play with an unheralded partner. Big deal. The great defenders play with who ever they are paired with and make them look good. They don't get made look bad by their partner. The U.S. team was not that strong. More bull. The U.S. team was the defending champion and had more than enough depth to defend their title according to many inthe pre-tournament build up. They supposedly had the best goaltending, were neck and neck with Canada for defenders and were mentioned as the best group of forwards as well. Team USA had more than enough horses. The problem was that their horses played like ponies.
On the other side of this coin is Phaneuf. He came to the WJC and played as billed. He did not have a single bad game and was a rock for the gold mendalist. If anyone questioned his smarts and abilities to play a thinking man's game, those concerns were put to rest with an exclamation point when he killed the 5 on 3 advantages the Russians had in the final. He played with an unherald defense partner (there was talk that Weber may not even make the team in camp) and now Weber is the talk of the town here (flavor of the week syndrome?). Phaneuf did what great defenders are supposed to do. Make their playing partner look capable.
There are those that say Suter has much more offensive upside. I just don't see it. He managed 8 points in 7 games. Phaneuf scored 6 in 6. Big difference? Not really. Suter is a better puck mover in his own zone, but as he put on display more than a few times in the tournament he can put tape to tape passes right onto the defender's sticks as well as his own players. Montoya can vouch for that as he picked two pucks out of his net as a result of miscalculated Suter passes. There is a difference between making a great pass and making a smart one. I'm not sure Suter has figured that one out. His uncle, Gary, was a great passer as well, just not the smartest passer. It appears this is a genetic thing and has been passed on to the next generation of Suter.
Frankly, Phaneuf is in a different class. He came to the world stage and has star has shone, twice. As the games got bigger, Phaneuf got better. Everyone that was partnered with him was a better player. Phaneuf was heads and tails above those he was playing against. Given a choice whether I would take Phaneuf or Suter, there is no decision to be made. I'd deal Suter for Phaneuf in a heartbeat and never look back. I take Phaneuf every day of the week and twice on game days. Suter was a huge disappointment to me and fell well back into the pack of defensive prospects (same can be said for Coburn as well). Of the big three, Phaneuf is a player that you want all your players to emulate. I wish Team USA had a dozen Phaneufs.
The Iconoclast said:
? This is a joke. neck and neck with Canadain defenders? Do you believe that? They're number 7 guy would have been paired with Suter on the top line.
If Phaneuf took a chance to create offense Weber covered, alls ok. When Suter took a chance to create offense so did Likens, Suter looks bad. That's how it works. That's why the excuses are legit.
triggrman said:
Maybe SUter should have worried about his defensive game first before thinking offense. :lol
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
Iconoclast, I agree with pretty much everything you say except the neck and neck comment about the bluelines. Canada was clearly, obviously a superior defense to anything the US could ever throw out there.
Not only is Canada traditionally a superior nation on defense but this year was THE year among all years as far as representation on defense. Canada's defense was top flight quality AND maturity. Phaneuf, Coburn, Weber, Seabrooke, Belle. All drafted early in 2003, mature, quality players. Most are strong and skilled as well as leaders on their team both on the ice and in the locker room. Can it honestly be any better?
As for Suter now being in the pack of good defensemen instead of ahead: yes. He was before the tournament ever begun. It was simply a matter of talks being bigger than what was warranted.
Not only is Canada traditionally a superior nation on defense but this year was THE year among all years as far as representation on defense. Canada's defense was top flight quality AND maturity. Phaneuf, Coburn, Weber, Seabrooke, Belle. All drafted early in 2003, mature, quality players. Most are strong and skilled as well as leaders on their team both on the ice and in the locker room. Can it honestly be any better?
As for Suter now being in the pack of good defensemen instead of ahead: yes. He was before the tournament ever begun. It was simply a matter of talks being bigger than what was warranted.
triggrman said:
Do I believe it? No. I said Canada had the best collection of defensive talent in the history of the tournament. It didn't stop the talking heads from babbling on and on about how the Americans were just as good. The build up was unbelievable.
Maybe if Suter was so afraid of his partner making a mistake he should have played a little more conservatively? Maybe he should have played a little smarter and not attempted to make clearing passes through the slot and the center of the ice. Maybe Suter would have made a few less trips behind his own net chasing players. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Suter made stupid decision after stupid decision. Only his brilliant 8 points in 7 games have people cutting the guy some slack. Thank god he can score points because he's just as capable of having goals scored against his team. Suter showed he has a very long way to go and lags well behind Dion Phaneuf.
So you've seen him in one tournment and declared this? Forget the countless AHL fans that say he's as good as Hamhuis? Forget that scouts have disagreed with your assessment? Saying that he was the only bright spot on defense for the Americans?
No, he wasn't perfect but he was a ton better than you have credited him being.
No, he wasn't perfect but he was a ton better than you have credited him being.
Pred303
Registered User
i'll wade in this shallow pool with my two cents....i'm not qualified to talk about phaneuf,like most americans we haven't even seen the guy thanks to espn...and therefore i'm certainly not going to say suter is better than phaneuf or vice versa...i don't understand the obsession with 'comparing' phaneuf and suter honestly...who cares really?..if you think suter stunk up the juniors that's your choice,personally i saw every minute of every game on tv and didn't see that at all..i saw suter make one bad outlet pass in a game they were down 4-1 late and give up a turnover where the russians scored,and i saw one turnover int he neutral zone where suter had the puck drift off his stick that resulted in a scoring chance for the czechs and one in his own end against the slovaks...suter was stranded on an island this entire tournament defensively and the only goal the man he was on actually scored was the empty netter from beyond the red line by ovechkin...every single other goal scored when his line was on the ice was likens man(not counting the shortie in the swiss game where he was the only man back in a two on one)...hey phaneuf might be the greatest thing since sliced bread-i for one don't know...but suter will be a stud in the nhl
triggrman said:
I guess your right. He should stick to offense cause clearly his defensive talents leave much to be desired.
BigE
Registered User
I might as well step into things here.
Dion Phaneuf is by far the best Defenseman prospect in the world right now. A number of reasons, in my opinion, make this the case.
First and probably foremost is his attitude. As anyone who was watching the post-Gold medal coverage saw, everyone talked about an even-keel and that's exactly the approach the Dion takes to the game. He never gets too up or too down and that gives him tremendous focus. This pays off for him on the ice as well because he takes his time and never rushes - even if he's pressured, he makes the best choice and follows through with it.
Staying along the lines of attitude, Dion would be my first choice for captain on any team. He leads by example and is such a hockey savvy kid, it's truly incredible to hear the things that come out of his mouth. He always puts things in the proper perspective and when you're a player on the bench seeing Phaneuf kill a 2 minute, 5 on 3 penalty, in its entirety, that is a huge motivational boost.
His stamina and endurance is second to none in the game of hockey and he's one of those rare guys (as Pierre Maguire mentioned) that just gets stronger as the game goes along. In that sense he's a lot like Nick Lidstrom, he can play 35-40 minutes in a game and not be effected.
Another one of Dion's strengths is his awareness and checking ability. You just can't beat the guy. Ovechkin, Malkin, Olesz...all these top prospects could not make a move. For a 19 year-old kid that's very impressive.
Everybody knows about his hitting and his knack for delivering numerous crunchers - no need to talk about that.
Lastly, his puck skills should not be over-looked, while it's his defensive side that most people covet; he makes an excellent first pass, has the ability to skate the puck out (and even into the opposition zone) and he owns quite a heavy shot from the backend on the powerplay.
Phaneuf is the real deal and in my opinion is the next Hybrid Defenseman, a combination of Scott Stevens, Nick Lidstrom and Chris Pronger. I'm not knocking Suter but he isn't nearly on the same level as Phaneuf.
For my money, I'd take Phaneuf over Ovechkin, Malkin, Lehtonen or Fleury anyday. I think he's probably not only the best defensive prospect in the world, but also the best prospect in the world, period. He's as close as you get to a sure thing.
Dion Phaneuf is by far the best Defenseman prospect in the world right now. A number of reasons, in my opinion, make this the case.
First and probably foremost is his attitude. As anyone who was watching the post-Gold medal coverage saw, everyone talked about an even-keel and that's exactly the approach the Dion takes to the game. He never gets too up or too down and that gives him tremendous focus. This pays off for him on the ice as well because he takes his time and never rushes - even if he's pressured, he makes the best choice and follows through with it.
Staying along the lines of attitude, Dion would be my first choice for captain on any team. He leads by example and is such a hockey savvy kid, it's truly incredible to hear the things that come out of his mouth. He always puts things in the proper perspective and when you're a player on the bench seeing Phaneuf kill a 2 minute, 5 on 3 penalty, in its entirety, that is a huge motivational boost.
His stamina and endurance is second to none in the game of hockey and he's one of those rare guys (as Pierre Maguire mentioned) that just gets stronger as the game goes along. In that sense he's a lot like Nick Lidstrom, he can play 35-40 minutes in a game and not be effected.
Another one of Dion's strengths is his awareness and checking ability. You just can't beat the guy. Ovechkin, Malkin, Olesz...all these top prospects could not make a move. For a 19 year-old kid that's very impressive.
Everybody knows about his hitting and his knack for delivering numerous crunchers - no need to talk about that.
Lastly, his puck skills should not be over-looked, while it's his defensive side that most people covet; he makes an excellent first pass, has the ability to skate the puck out (and even into the opposition zone) and he owns quite a heavy shot from the backend on the powerplay.
Phaneuf is the real deal and in my opinion is the next Hybrid Defenseman, a combination of Scott Stevens, Nick Lidstrom and Chris Pronger. I'm not knocking Suter but he isn't nearly on the same level as Phaneuf.
For my money, I'd take Phaneuf over Ovechkin, Malkin, Lehtonen or Fleury anyday. I think he's probably not only the best defensive prospect in the world, but also the best prospect in the world, period. He's as close as you get to a sure thing.
Don't be an idiot. It doesnt help your argument that Phaneuf is a better prospect to make stupid comments about another great prospect, & which comments have no merit.Patrick - Flames Fan said:
You just lose credibility in the process.
BigE
Registered User
I didn't talk about Suter much but I did like his skating ability which is probably the only area aside from maybe his offensive prowess where he exceeds Dion. Although it's only a marginal difference, none the less, he is the better skater.
He seems a little behind in terms of toughness, one on one ability and awareness in his own end - all things he can develop.
Truth be told both these guys are going to make it big and only time will tell who climbs higher - my money is on Dion, though.
He seems a little behind in terms of toughness, one on one ability and awareness in his own end - all things he can develop.
Truth be told both these guys are going to make it big and only time will tell who climbs higher - my money is on Dion, though.
Sammy said:
Well when you compare his offensive talent to his defesive developement right now, it is quite lopsided. His game needs to find balance. He has the tools but hasn't put it together yet. His defense needs some tuning.
Again, he's not having this problem in the AHL, probably because he's playing with Hamhuis and not Liken.Patrick - Flames Fan said:
nomorekids
The original, baby
triggrman said:
Exactly, which is why I'm not exactly worried what the clown-squad on HF thinks. Anyone that's familiar with the Admirals(perhaps the best team in the AHL, at least definitely top-three) knows that Suter has been THE best defenseman for Milwaukee, and is not concerned that the Canadian circle-jerk\Friends 'O' Phaneuf thinks that Suter could have looked better while being pretty much the lone defenseman on the American team. Like it's been said in this thread..I'll wait until we see the two on a level playing field before making statements like one of these guys is "deficient" in some way.
I'd hate to make myself look that silly.
Yikes.nomorekids said:
Does it bother you that much that someone prefers Phaneuf over your prospect? Unreal reaction.
nomorekids
The original, baby
MrMastodonFarm said:
No.
It has nothing to do with anyone's preference. It has more to do with the fact that now Suter isnt' getting a fair shake. I have no problem with anyone believing that Phaneuf is further along in his development than Suter. I DO have a problem with the new belief that Suter is some sort of scrub\future #5 defenseman...because he couldn't keep pucks out of Montoya's net...or because he couldn't cover his man AND his partner's man. You'd get annoyed by it, too.
I completely agree.nomorekids said:
I don't care that Phaneuf is rated higher than Suter. Suter is still one of the best defensive prospects period.
nomorekids
The original, baby
triggrman said:
a pretty clear cut number 2, in my opinion. But that's not good enough for some people. You have to get the "I'd take Shawn Belle over Ryan Suter" chumps trying to throw some fuel in the fire.
Slats432
Registered User
Hey, I love Phaneuf...um not enought to be part of the Phaneuf and Friends Variety Hour, but I think having Likens as a partner is a bane that no defenseman should have to go through.
It wasn't all that tough for Phaneuf, having Weber as a partner.
There is a gap, but it sure isn't a country mile.
I would take Suter over every other blueliner prospect out there save Phanuef.
It wasn't all that tough for Phaneuf, having Weber as a partner.
There is a gap, but it sure isn't a country mile.
I would take Suter over every other blueliner prospect out there save Phanuef.
- Status
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
GDT: ECQF: Game 3 - New York Rangers @ Washington Capitals, 7pm ET, TNT, MSG- Latest: DanielBrassard
Upcoming events
-
Victoriaville Tigres @ Drummondville Voltigeurs - Game 1Wagers: 1Staked: $25.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Game 2 Belleville Senators @ Toronto Marlies -Belleville Senators leads series 1-0Wagers: 4Staked: $440.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
Game 1 W-B/Scranton Penguins @ Lehigh Valley Phantoms - Lehigh Valley Phantoms leads series 1-0Wagers: 4Staked: $180.00Event closes
- Updated:
-
