Dion Phaneuf vs Ryan Suter

[Enoch]

Hey, I love Phaneuf...um not enought to be part of the Phaneuf and Friends Variety Hour, but I think having Likens as a partner is a bane that no defenseman should have to go through.

It wasn't all that tough for Phaneuf, having Weber as a partner.

There is a gap, but it sure isn't a country mile.

I would take Suter over every other blueliner prospect out there save Phanuef.

I would agree with this. I haven't seen enough of Phaneuf to say who I would rather have, but I have seen Ryan Suter play.....Hands down he is the best prospect we have drafted so far. All signs from my perspective points to immense success in the NHL, which is good enough for me...Phaneuf may be better than Suter as a prospect, but that has no bearing on whether or not Suter is legit or not.

As for the WJCs - Anyone paired with Weber (top 5 defensemen in the tournament as a whole) versus being paired with Likens (worst defensemen period of the tournament) is going to come out looking better. It sounds like Phaneuf has the ability to shine on his own, and it appears he did. However, it should not be counted against Suter (which it has countless times during the WJCs) for the stupidity displayed by his partner.

 

[Pred303]

if we(the Preds) draft Likens next year,i'd seriously consider becoming a flames fan

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

No.

It has nothing to do with anyone's preference. It has more to do with the fact that now Suter isnt' getting a fair shake. I have no problem with anyone believing that Phaneuf is further along in his development than Suter. I DO have a problem with the new belief that Suter is some sort of scrub\future #5 defenseman...because he couldn't keep pucks out of Montoya's net...or because he couldn't cover his man AND his partner's man. You'd get annoyed by it, too.

You put those people on your ignore list and then listen to the rest of us who still see Suter as one of the best defensemen prospects out there. Obviously not every non-Nashville fan sees him as the "clearcut" #2 like you NSH fans do but that doesn't mean we all think he stinks.

You are overreacting by putting too much stock in the opinion of a small sample of posters.

 

[nomorekids]

You put those people on your ignore list and then listen to the rest of us who still see Suter as one of the best defensemen prospects out there.

You are overreacting by putting too much stock in the opinion of a small sample of posters.

I've calmed down considerably in the last half-hour or so

 

[Drake1588]

Hey, I love Phaneuf...um not enought to be part of the Phaneuf and Friends Variety Hour, but I think having Likens as a partner is a bane that no defenseman should have to go through.

It wasn't all that tough for Phaneuf, having Weber as a partner.

There is a gap, but it sure isn't a country mile.

I would take Suter over every other blueliner prospect out there save Phanuef.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

I want to know where I stated Suter was not a great prospect. He still is. He just isn't in the same class as Phaneuf. Suter slipped back into the pack IMO (I don't care who he played with, he made some really stupid decisions that elite level players do not make) and Phaneuf took a big step a head of everyone else. I think Suter is going to be a solid defenseman in the NHL and the Preds are lucky to have him, but the question was who is better, Phaneuf or Suter. The answer was easy but deserved justification IMO. I justified my stance.

 

[BigE]

if we(the Preds) draft Likens next year,i'd seriously consider becoming a flames fan

I don't think you have to worry about ANYONE taking Likens after the tournament he just had. When all is said and done, this tournament serves as a major analytical tool for all of the NHL clubs, a great or horrible performance can literally move you up or down by the rounds.

Suter is and will be a good defenseman, there is no question of that. It's ridiculous to state otherwise. I think sometimes people get a little over-zealous when preaching their favorite prospect - not surprising. The inability of Montoya to stop much of anything and Likens underwhelming one on one ability (reminiscent of a pilon) cannot be held against Suter. Just realize that harsh words for a prospect are not a 'Canadian' thing, only.

In terms of game breaking ability - TSN Turning Point/Subway Sammich of the Game/Pepto Bismol Upset of the Game - Dion is your man. It's just my opinion that he's going to make Calgary one helluva team to play against and that will gain him notariety around the league.

As a hockey fan, we've got a lot to look forward to with both these young guys stepping in, in the near future.

 

[Enoch]

I want to know where I stated Suter was not a great prospect. He still is. He just isn't in the same class as Phaneuf. Suter slipped back into the pack IMO (I don't care who he played with, he made some really stupid decisions that elite level players do not make) and Phaneuf took a big step a head of everyone else. I think Suter is going to be a solid defenseman in the NHL and the Preds are lucky to have him, but the question was who is better, Phaneuf or Suter. The answer was easy but deserved justification IMO. I justified my stance.

But Dion also had a similar gaff against Slovakia, and they were the only team to even remotely test Canada. Its one thing to point out the mistakes of one player, but you have to also do the same for the others. You speak as if every other play Suter was giving the puck up in a horrid turnover where that simply isn't true. He had, by my count, two bad turnovers, but both were when the team was down pitifully. Make what you will of the situation, but he was trying to create offense in the Belarus game (down 4-1....). You heap everything on his shoulders, when in reality, much of what occured had nothing to do with him. Similarily, much of Canada's success had nothing to do with Dion Phaneuf (although he was a huge addition to the team). When you compare a great defensive player on a world class team, to a great defensive player on a team that struggles in all aspects of defense (forwards, defensemen, and goaltending) your going to get a skewed result. I'm not arguing for Suter, but your commentary is quite slanted in the way you approach the tourneys of each player. Sure Phaneuf didn't make many mistakes, but neither did Suter. You just feel the need to point out all of Suter's while not pointing out any of Phaneufs. Does that mean Suter is the better prospect? Hardly. My point is you can always pick out the faults of any player, no matter how good they are.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Its not that Ryan Suter stunk it up, its just that at the biggest stage for Juniours Dion Phaneuf stepped his game up a notch. Nashville fans need to calm down, Suter is not gonna suck, its just that Dion Phaneuf has elevated his game that it is clear is the #1 D prospect out there.

 

[windowlicker]

Its not that Ryan Suter stunk it up, its just that at the biggest stage for Juniours Dion Phaneuf stepped his game up a notch. Nashville fans need to calm down, Suter is not gonna suck, its just that Dion Phaneuf has elevated his game that it is clear is the #1 D prospect out there.

Perhaps if Dion played on Team USA, within the US defensive system (evey man for himself), paired with Jeff "One Legged" Likens, while Suter got top pairing minutes on the Canadian World Jr. All-Star team, there wouldn't be any questions as to just how close these two are.

 

[nomorekids]

Perhaps if Dion played on Team USA, within the US defensive system (evey man for himself), paired with Jeff "One Legged" Likens, while Suter got top pairing minutes on the Canadian World Jr. All-Star team, there wouldn't be any questions as to just how close these two are.

I suggested that, but no one seems to think that a player is a product of his surroundings. At least not around here.

 

[rt]

If given the choice, I'd take Suter for my team.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I suggested that, but no one seems to think that a player is a product of his surroundings. At least not around here.

That's not really true (unless it was in another thread). Some of us did acknowledge Phaneuf was on a much stronger, skilled and mature team. For me, that isn't the point of the debate. I see them as equally effective at this level. Obviously, I think Suter might have looked a better prospect to the untrained eye, the way he did last year.

I just think Phaneuf is a clearly superior NHL prospect because I expect his game to translate very well, not to mention his progression curve is tops for me. He's constantly improving and does have better upside IMO.

They're both good prospects anyway. I just don't see anything (other than style) that separates Suter from guys like Grebeshkov and Tjutin. Suter (and all those guys I just named) is a much better defenseman than Barker right now too. I still place Barker #2 on a gamble shot that is questionable because I see very, very intriguing tools there.

Phaneuf is just the better NHL prospect for me. Clearly #1, IMO. Every couple of months, Phaneuf just confirms this. Some of his plays are really of the tide turning level. He's going to be an impact player at the NHL level, IMO. There is still a lot of room for all these prospects to grow, including Suter. But right now I like Phaneuf's progress and his current play.

 

[saillias]

I think that Suter isn't the type of guy you pair with Likens to cover up his mistakes. He should have been with Borer, or Likens should have been with Borer. Why the U.S.A paired their best defenseman who has great offensive capabilities with a guy he had to babysit, I don't know. That isn't the type of role he should be in.

 

[nomorekids]

I think that Suter isn't the type of guy you pair with Likens to cover up his mistakes. He should have been with Borer, or Likens should have been with Borer. Why the U.S.A paired their best defenseman who has great offensive capabilities with a guy he had to babysit, I don't know. That isn't the type of role he should be in.

That's Scott Sandelin for you. Likens was continually put in at all times, even key situations and penalty kills, and it should only have taken him that first game(where he basically gave up two straight goals because he left the slot wide open. Sandelin was as much if not more to blame for a lot of the problems the USA faced as someone like Montoya was for giving up bad goals.

Also...in terms of Suter..I agree...but at the same time, aside from Borer...there really wasn't anyone else that was playign well defensively. Hagemo was solid..but I guess they had to be split up so you didn't end up with a pairing of Hunwick and Likens. This is where the selection process of team USA really gets to me, because there were better choices...not going to rehash the Johnson thing again, but why not Dustin Byuglfien, who's having a great season in the WHL? It's frustrating.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Team USA obviously isn't too hot on CHLers, although they will make the odd exception. I guess they weren't questioned on that after the win and figured they would skip as many as possible and get a team they like and know well.

I don't know if this year will make them change their mind or not. I would think they will want to avenge this year very hard next season.

BTW, anyone knowledgeable in US hockey wants to give it a shot at giving 6 names of defensemen who were ommitted that *could* maybe have made that team? I know Jack Johnson comes back often, as does Byfuglien. There's also Thelen. Who else was omitted? Who could have had a shot, even an outside one? Any league, doesn't matter as long as they were legit for this tournament.

 

[nomorekids]

Team USA obviously isn't too hot on CHLers, although they will make the odd exception. I guess they weren't questioned on that after the win and figured they would skip as many as possible and get a team they like and know well.

I don't know if this year will make them change their mind or not. I would think they will want to avenge this year very hard next season.

BTW, anyone knowledgeable in US hockey wants to give it a shot at giving 6 names of defensemen who were ommitted that *could* maybe have made that team? I know Jack Johnson comes back often, as does Byfuglien. There's also Thelen. Who else was omitted? Who could have had a shot, even an outside one? Any league, doesn't matter as long as they were legit for this tournament.

I didn't so much mind Thelen and Johnson being left off at the time..but in hindsite, it's frustrating to think that they couldn't have been worse than what we had. There are few guys in QMJHL that could probably have been considered, though they're in the offensive mold as well...Andricopolous, Joey Ryan. Honestly...it just doesn't seem like there's a great crop of american defensemen out there right now. Hopefully the kids on the U17 team mature into what we're looking for.

 

[maplevizlsa]

Hey guys, I am all for Phaneuf! He is an awesum defenceman and kicked some serious butt in the junior tournamment. He has all the aspects for a great defenceman and will be one of the best D's in the nhl. And he can hit Dion is waaay better than suter.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

 

[Pred303]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

:lol

 

[Vast Ant Dioi]

The way Suter handles and moves the puck reminds me of Pronger.