News Article: Dion Phaneuf retires, to be honoured by Maple Leafs

[Notsince67]

I remember reading that percentage-wise he wasn't much worse than average at hitting the net from the point. It just seemed that way, maybe because his misses were of epic proportion.

He could definitely hit Lupul.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Correct. He should have been surrounded by enough quality that he could be a second line winger, which is where he was most effective.

Same way that Phaneuf should have been a second paring D and Bozak should have been a second or third C.

Not their fault at all. Just a bad team that Burke made worse.

Except the wingers that played on Crosby's line during the cup years were guys like Hornqvist, past prime Kunitz, Sheary and eventually a rookie Guentzel during their 2nd cup run. Kessel was as much of a 2nd line winger/3rd line winger to Pitt as Malkin was a 2nd liner for them thru out his whole career.

Kessel for some reason barely spent time on Crosby's line, maybe they just didn't have any chemistry or the coach believed spreading the offence was the much better option, whatever the case, Kessel during their 2 cup seasons average more 5 vs 5 minutes compare to any Pitt wingers aside from Guentzel and in terms of overall time on ice for forwards, only Crosby played more 5 vs 5 for Pitt than ironman Phil during those 2 seasons. Not having any chemistry with Crosby shouldn't disqualify Kessel from being Pitt's most important winger, he definitely was during those 2 cup seasons and his heavy minute usage shows us this.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Didn't Kessel play for the most part on the 3rd line during his tenure there? I could be mistaken.

From 2015-2017 (the cup seasons) he spent like 1000+ 5 vs 5 minutes playing with Malkin and 500+ minutes away, so he played the majority of his minutes on the 2nd line but neither players were considered 2nd line players compared to guys like Hornqvist and Kunitz just because these guys were playing on Crosby's line, that is like calling Micheal Bunting a 1st liner and JT a 2nd liner because Bunting is playing more minutes on the 1st line with Matthews.

 

[notDatsyuk]

From 2015-2017 (the cup seasons) he spent like 1000+ 5 vs 5 minutes playing with Malkin and 500+ minutes away, so he played the majority of his minutes on the 2nd line but neither players were considered 2nd line players compared to guys like Hornqvist and Kunitz just because these guys were playing on Crosby's line, that is like calling Micheal Bunting a 1st liner and JT a 2nd liner because Bunting is playing more minutes on the 1st line with Matthews.

You're looking at different things.

Bunting is on the top line not because he is better than JT, but because he plays a different position.

 

[lebdafor norris]

You're looking at different things.

Bunting is on the top line not because he is better than JT, but because he plays a different position.

Yea and Kessel was not on Pitt's 1st line not because his not better than an old Kunitz or Hornqvist, rather it was likely because he had no chemistry with Sid whatsoever. You really think the leafs adding these 2 during Kessel and Dion's tenure here would have made the difference? Because these were the guys that beat out Kessel for the coveted spot of becoming Crosby's winger.

Also Nylander is a winger like Bunting, so using your Kessel is a 2nd liner argument, Nylander is also the Leafs' 2nd line winger while Bunting is the Leafs 1st despite Willy being the far more important player on the team, same logic applies here with Kessel during his role in Pitt's 2 cup runs.

EDIT: Actually replace Willy for Marner as Nylander has actually played more minutes with AM this season while Marner is back playing on JT's line.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yea and Kessel was not on Pitt's 1st line not because his not better than an old Kunitz or Hornqvist, rather it was likely because he had no chemistry with Sid whatsoever. You really think the leafs adding these 2 during Kessel and Dion's tenure here would have made the difference? Because these were the guys that beat out Kessel for the coveted spot of becoming Crosby's winger.

Also Nylander is a winger like Bunting, so using your Kessel is a 2nd liner argument, Nylander is also the Leafs' 2nd line winger while Bunting is the Leafs 1st despite Willy being the far more important player on the team, same logic applies here with Kessel during his role in Pitt's 2 cup runs.

Again, different things: Nylander plays right wing, so the comparable in Marner, and those two keep getting switched.

Bunting, if he stays there, is the best of a bunch of mediocre left wingers.

The only team Kessel played on the top line for was a very bad Leafs team.

If you think that makes him a career top winger, be my guest.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Again, different things: Nylander plays right wing, so the comparable in Marner, and those two keep getting switched.

Bunting, if he stays there, is the best of a bunch of mediocre left wingers.

The only team Kessel played on the top line for was a very bad Leafs team.

If you think that makes him a career top winger, be my guest.

Yea if only we surrounded Kessel with players like Hornqvist and a declining Kunitz, you know guys who were "1st liners" on a cup winning team, then Kessel could have really found more success here. I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Again, different things: Nylander plays right wing, so the comparable in Marner, and those two keep getting switched.

Bunting, if he stays there, is the best of a bunch of mediocre left wingers.

The only team Kessel played on the top line for was a very bad Leafs team.

If you think that makes him a career top winger, be my guest.

You've picked a really weird hill to die in. Kessel was a top line winger. Kessel was an elite top line winger when the played for us. The Kessel that joined the Leafs would arguably be our best winger right now and we're not a bad team.

 

[Niagara Bill]

So this thread suddenly becomes Kessel and Penquins.

Dion maybe was put in a bad light by the Leafs, but he always put his energy and talent into every game.

Good recognition for him.
Thanks Dion.

 

[ER89]

Which is why he was a first line winger in Pittsburgh?

So malkin is a 2c?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yea if only we surrounded Kessel with players like Hornqvist and a declining Kunitz, you know guys who were "1st liners" on a cup winning team, then Kessel could have really found more success here. I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense.

I don't know if you are accidentally or intentionally missing the point completely.

I don't care. This is supposed to be a thread about Phaneuf.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You've picked a really weird hill to die in. Kessel was a top line winger. Kessel was an elite top line winger when the played for us. The Kessel that joined the Leafs would arguably be our best winger right now and we're not a bad team.

If Kessel was "an elite top line winger" then why was the only time he played top line on a really bad Leafs team?

I'm not dying on anything - just pointing out flaws in logoc.

But you're right - it's a silly thing to be discussing on a Phaneuf thread.

 

[leafsfan5]

Anyone who thinks Kessel wasn't an elite top line winger is insane

Guy had Tyler Bozak as his 1c and was putting up top 10 scoring seasons lmao

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

If Kessel was "an elite top line winger" then why was the only time he played top line on a really bad Leafs team?

I'm not dying on anything - just pointing out flaws in logoc.

But you're right - it's a silly thing to be discussing on a Phaneuf thread.

I was never a fan of Kessel (mostly because of when we traded for him) but he was an elite winger. Sure, he got a lot of points because he cut corners defensively but that does not take away that he had the speed, wrists and vision of an elite winger.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I was going back and forth in regards to Dion. Mostly wrote negative posts here about him since I put most of my frustration with the team on him. Was not fair and I wish him the best of days moving forward.

 

[Notsince67]

You've picked a really weird hill to die in. Kessel was a top line winger. Kessel was an elite top line winger when the played for us. The Kessel that joined the Leafs would arguably be our best winger right now and we're not a bad team.

The kessel that joined the leafs wasnt even better than the Marner who joined the leafs and that was after a few years in pro.

 

[Christ]

So I heard Dion retired...