News Article: Dion Phaneuf plays against toughest competition
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diceman934
Help is on the way.
Please post that Data that supports that Dion is among the best in the League....I will await your data.
You will fine that the data supports that he is no where near a top D man and this is an opinion supported by fact!
Lol as much as people love throwing around the term "irrational hate" in these types of threads, sometimes I question how people can have such irrational love for extremely average players.
The guy is overpaid, overrated, slow, low hockey iq, and has some of the worst possession numbers of any player in the league. Yet people still bring up and Norris nomination from 5 years ago, QOC numbers, and whatever other useless metric to try to defend this guy. There is a reason (several actually) that he was traded for table scraps.
The guy is overpaid, overrated, slow, low hockey iq, and has some of the worst possession numbers of any player in the league. Yet people still bring up and Norris nomination from 5 years ago, QOC numbers, and whatever other useless metric to try to defend this guy. There is a reason (several actually) that he was traded for table scraps.
Dayjobdave
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Wendelstache
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But... but ... Gunnar is a 5-6 defenseman not worthy to share the same ice as Phaneuf.
- Phaneuf Supporter
diceman934
Help is on the way.
ULF_55
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If we're talking tough minutes Gunnarsson for most of the year played those same tough minutes.
+/- is not affected by SH TOI, but PP should not be considered tough minutes, getting a minus as a PP point man is just bad.
Dion Phaneuf|17:27|2:49|20:16|+2
Carl Gunnarsson|16:15|2:56|19:11|+12
Jake Gardiner|18:10|0:37|18:47|-3
Cody Franson|16:08|1:38|17:46|-20
Paul Ranger|15:14|1:54|17:08|-1
Tim Gleason|14:50|2:05|16:55|-14
John-Michael Liles|16:06|0:01|16:07|-2
Morgan Rielly|15:34|0:08|15:42|-13
Mark Fraser|12:42|2:30|15:12|-8
Petter Granberg|11:21|0:24|11:45|+0
Leafs should be looking for a better leader for the defense core, not a better partner for 'X'.
"He'd be great if only he had a better partner!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5vz6iwV38U
One must NOT overlook one of the possible reasons they traded dion away.
Calg has first hand knowledge of what it's like to deal with dion and his agent when contracts are due.
This is the 2nd really bad contract he has managed to steal.
Phaneuf faces the same competition as every other shutdown pairing d-man in the league.
We don't need a better partner for Phaneuf. We need a better partner for Gunnarsson.
We don't need a better partner for Phaneuf. We need a better partner for Gunnarsson.
Agree completely. Fact is he does wear the C and he is our #1 and he gets paid as a tier 1 elite defence man in the league, so when his performance doesn't measure up to that, you come back and suggest it's because of who he has to play with and the overall quality of D-men in Toronto? Lame. Probably an MLSE inspired article to get our heads around more of the same next season.
In the very least he has to be stripped of the C. He is not a leader period, regardless how he plays defence for the Leafs. If losing that responsibility gives him more time to concentrate on his play, then great. Do we need better quality support? Absolutely, no shyte Sherlock- we were the worst defensively team in the league. Does that fall on the forwards and coaching as well? Yes of course it does.
Calgary had already signed the guy to a long-term deal, I don't think the negotiations had anything to do with it.
They signed him as a #1, franchise defenseman after having sheltered him quite a lot up to that point. They bet it all on him before they'd really made sure he could be that. They found themselves stuck with a guy they didn't see as capable of living up to the contract he'd signed, because he faltered when his defensive responsibilities increased.
There are many things you can criticize the Flames management for, but making the call to ditch that contract early really isn't one of them. People thought it was a steal but they are being proven right on that decision as Phaneuf is no longer even a good PP specialist.
Get him a partner like Brodin or Josi, and we'd see much better play. Our D-core obviously has to be improved. This isn't really an issue with Gunnarsson, but he needs someone who can complement his game better. If he remains, I can see us acquiring a suitable partner or trying Gardiner instead.
Mess
Global Moderator
In the last 20 games of the season during the playoff push of March and April Phanuef was a -18 +/-. Which was one of the worst marks of the league.
What that says is that while Phaneuf might have been playing against the opponents top competition, he wasn't doing it very well if the goal was preventing pucks from entering your own net.
Every NHL team has a top pairing that plays against the other teams best players, and this is not contained to only Phaneuf.
Gunnarsson is usual partner was a +12 on the season and lead the Leafs in that category.
What that says is that while Phaneuf might have been playing against the opponents top competition, he wasn't doing it very well if the goal was preventing pucks from entering your own net.
Every NHL team has a top pairing that plays against the other teams best players, and this is not contained to only Phaneuf.
Gunnarsson is usual partner was a +12 on the season and lead the Leafs in that category.
Dreakmur
Registered User
The fact that Gunnarsaon is second behind Phaneuf tells you something. The fact the Tyler Bozak had a higher rating that forward leader Jonathan Toews, but just missed the games played cut-off, tells you more. Both Phil Kessel and James van Riemadyk were either top-10 or close to it.
No, the fact is that statistically Phaneuf is unquestionably not one of the best defensemen in the league. He's not even the best defenseman on his pairing.
If you're saying it like that, keep coming up with the excuses that Dion is a terrible defenseman. I won't disagree with you about the poor captain issue though.
While you make a good argument, your first sentence is already somewhat bias, is it not? Why use only the last 20 games as the benchmark? I rememeber up to the break, he was playing great. It could be perhaps fatigue or an injury? And if you think that's making excuses (I guess that kind of is), then why not consider his first 20 games, or whatever 20 games where he played quite well?
Keith doesn't nor does Letang, Karlsson, or Subban. Yes, it's true that Phaneuf really started falling apart after the break, but so did the entire team. Our D core outside of the top one were a joke on the defensive end for the entire season.
I'd also refrain from depending too heavily on +/- numbers. Remember, both Josi ( stronger than Gunnarsson) and Weber ( stronger than Phaneuf) are -2. Not just that, but Josi doesn't just have slightly higher comp numbers, but had a positive corsi differential unlike his elite partner.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 79,370
- 54,896
Leafs should be looking for a better leader for the defense core, not a better partner for 'X'.
"He'd be great if only he had a better partner!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5vz6iwV38U
Exactly.
When people say "Phaneuf needs someone better to play with" they're basically saying "We need a number one to babysit Dion, because he can't do his job".
Well, that's all well and good in theory but when Captain Dion is pulling in $8 million in salary with a $7 million cap hit for the next 7 years, it sounds like we'll have to go find some kind of $10 million super defenseman that Dion can hide behind.
Phaneuf's ****** new contract is Grabovski bad. Is he a useful NHLer? Yes, but he destroys the cap structure on this team, provides no strength or stability to build a successful club, is a poor leader and off ice spokesperson with no credibility.
Phaneuf has to go.
Havoc
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We have zero possession players besides Gardiner. Rielly is still too raw and seems to rush it too fast without slowing down to think some more, but he will eventually be better than Gardiner. Possession is the best defence you can have. Even if you do nothing worthwhile with the puck, the other team doesn't have it. Obviously our D gets pummeled. The puck is always in our zone.
Phaneuf can play a possession game and fits in with Gardiner and Rielly. I don't mind if he stays.
Honestly, just get rid of Franson and replace him with a Gleason type, bring in some forwards who back check hard and a coach who can setup a nice defensive system and we'll suddenly be a top 16 team. More work will have to be done thereafter to be a top 10 team.
Phaneuf can play a possession game and fits in with Gardiner and Rielly. I don't mind if he stays.
Honestly, just get rid of Franson and replace him with a Gleason type, bring in some forwards who back check hard and a coach who can setup a nice defensive system and we'll suddenly be a top 16 team. More work will have to be done thereafter to be a top 10 team.
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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We miss a Kaberle type who can calmly handle the puck and assess the situation, controlling it and thoughtfully distribute on the transition. Gardiner and Rielly can be in too much of a hurry to make things happen, which can easily be a scoring chance or a turnover. Just eat up the clock a little bit and make sure nothing crazy is going to happen during his shift.
