TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[wulfio*]

So where are we getting "cup contender" top pairing dmen?

I don't know, I don't get paid to know these things or I could tell you. But from a building perspective, it would start by maximizing value instead of throwing money around willy nilly.

Make tough, savy decisions. The easy solution is to pay Dion 7 mill. He will get that money from somebody, but is it the correct decision to give him that money? It's not. The tough choice is to be patient and find the right fit. Some people pay Patrice Bergeron 6.5 mill. Others pay Alexander Semin 7 mill. What money is being better spent?

Really it comes down to necessity. Do you really want to make Phaneuf the face? Is he carrying this team to the cup? Or would you rather bide your time, finding players on value contracts who can do the same job or better by committee, until you can possibly land that marquee guy.

 

[snizzbone*]

Wow, you are extraordinarily bullish on revenues. You own a lot of stocks to go with that view?

What?

The cap was already said to be moving up to 71 million for next year, and then roughly 80 million the year after once we get the TV revenues going. This was basically confirmed by every hockey source including the NHL Board of Governors meeting.

 

[TML23]

agreed.

but most teams aren't cup contenders. That's all I'm interested in being. And you don't become a cup contender by paying a 3rd/4th dman 7+ mill.

Phaneuf is no way a 3rd or 4th dman. I have no idea how you are coming up with this.

Have you seen the UFA market for a few years down the road? There aren't many good players to sign. Phaneuf has all the leverage here. You damn know he will get at least 7x7 if he goes to free agency.

 

[Warden of the North]

I don't know, I don't get paid to know these things or I could tell you. But from a building perspective, it would start by maximizing value instead of throwing money around willy nilly.

Make tough, savy decisions. The easy solution is to pay Dion 7 mill. He will get that money from somebody, but is it the correct decision to give him that money? It's not. The tough choice is to be patient and find the right fit. Some people pay Patrice Bergeron 6.5 mill. Others pay Alexander Semin 7 mill. What money is being better spent?

Really it comes down to necessity. Do you really want to make Phaneuf the face? Is he carrying this team to the cup? Or would you rather bide your time, finding players on value contracts who can do the same job or better by committee, until you can possibly land that marquee guy.

I dont think we will find players on value contracts who can do the same job, in all honesty. Unless they come from within, we're not finding UFAs to cover for Dion.

Also, consider that in only a few years time, the cap will rise dramatically, so the % of the cap which Dion's contract represents will drop accordingly. In five years he may be paid like a a 3/4 is today

 

[Duke Silver]

But those saying this 7 million a year is a steal of a contract are no wrong. That's all.

Again, based on what?

 

[wulfio*]

I dont think we will find players on value contracts who can do the same job, in all honesty. Unless they come from within, we're not finding UFAs to cover for Dion.

Also, consider that in only a few years time, the cap will rise dramatically, so the % of the cap which Dion's contract represents will drop accordingly. In five years he may be paid like a a 3/4 is today

They can be found, and had. The Martins and Seidenbergs of the world. You just need to not be frivolous.

There's lots out there, guys become available all the time. We've just been notoriously tied up in bad contracts since burke took over, so we've never had the flexibility to pursue them. And Nonis is following his predecessors example. I like a lot of the pieces on this team. I just don't think the assets are being managed properly.

 

[Durrr]

Again, based on what?

His baseless opinion

 

[MountainGoat]

damn good deal

 

[DD03]

They can be found, and had. The Martins and Seidenbergs of the world. You just need to not be frivolous.

There's lots out there, guys become available all the time. We've just been notoriously tied up in bad contracts since burke took over, so we've never had the flexibility to pursue them. And Nonis is following his predecessors example. I like a lot of the pieces on this team. I just don't think the assets are being managed properly.

So Seidenberg and Martin are better then Dion?

 

[Purity*]

7 million would be a damn good cap-hit, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

The past 2 years, he has done a spectacular job of shutting down top lines. I would be ecstatic to lock him up. He is the #1D, Captain and heart and soul of this team, trust me, if he's getting a million less than Kessel, it's a GOOD DEAL.

Dion takes a lot of unwarranted crap from this fanbase, don't let it taint your judgement of him as a player. He is a DAMN GOOD defensemen, and hopefully once Rielly/Gardiner/Granberg/Percy all develop he will finally have a good supporting cast.

 

[Leafidelity]

So Seidenberg and Martin are better then Dion?

Sometimes, all you have to do is let people talk to make a fool of themselves.

 

[wulfio*]

So Seidenberg and Martin are better then Dion?

Clearly you weren't following the convo. Maybe read it first then talk.

 

[Warden of the North]

They can be found, and had. The Martins and Seidenbergs of the world. You just need to not be frivolous.

There's lots out there, guys become available all the time. We've just been notoriously tied up in bad contracts since burke took over, so we've never had the flexibility to pursue them. And Nonis is following his predecessors example. I like a lot of the pieces on this team. I just don't think the assets are being managed properly.

There hasnt been any free agent the Leafs havent had the wherewithal to pursue had they wanted to.

And take a look at upcoming UFA defesemen. They arent getting any better. Good dmen, nay good players in general, are getting locked up long term before they hit UFA

 

[Hibachi]

I'm fine with 7x7...

7 years is to be expected in todays NHL and 7 million is good value for us for at least the first 5 or so years before he possibly starts slowing down.

 

[notdoneyet]

They can be found, and had. The Martins and Seidenbergs of the world. You just need to not be frivolous.
There's lots out there, guys become available all the time. We've just been notoriously tied up in bad contracts since burke took over, so we've never had the flexibility to pursue them. And Nonis is following his predecessors example. I like a lot of the pieces on this team. I just don't think the assets are being managed properly.

of course "those" guys are out there but without Chara does Boston win a cup with just Seidenberg? Of course not! He is only a complimentary piece much like
Gunnarsson or Franson for us.

Time to stop talking nonsense and letting your hatred for dion
take over your common sense

 

[TML23]

After looking at Clarkson's contract, nothing seems bad really. I'll be happy with 7x7 for Dion.

It seems like he's one of the few players on the Leafs who actually give a damn and contribute (Clarkson hasn't contributed so far).

 

[wulfio*]

of course "those" guys are out there but without Chara does Boston win a cup with just Seidenberg? Of course not! He is only a complimentary piece much like
Gunnarsson or Franson for us.

Time to stop talking nonsense and letting your hatred for dion
take over your common sense

Nope, but you dont win the cup making a guy who is not a #1 d man on a cup winner, your #1 d man who hampers your cap flexibility. I think it's more your man crush on Dion is getting in the way of common sense and perspective.

P.S to that other guy, If I can have both Seidenberg and Martin on my team for 1 mill more than I am paying Dion alone, I take it and run...

 

[notdoneyet]

Nope, but you dont win the cup making a guy who is not a #1 d man on a cup winner, your #1 d man who hampers your cap flexibility. I think it's more your man crush on Dion is getting in the way of common sense and perspective.

P.S to that other guy, If I can have both Seidenberg and Martin on my team for 1 mill more than I am paying Dion alone, I take it and run...

again your talking nonsense.

you have no idea just an opinion that Dion can not be a #1D on a cup winning team.
and as far as an extra 500K in salalry increase if this hampers our cap flexibility
then something is definietely wrong

again dont let your blind hate dictate your reasoning

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I'm fine with 7x7...

7 years is to be expected in todays NHL and 7 million is good value for us for at least the first 5 or so years before he possibly starts slowing down.

He could easily start declining in 2 or 3 years, never mind 5.

I look at Phaneuf today and don't understand how he deserves a raise AND a longer deal than his last one. He's a #1D for sure, but this would give him a higher cap hit than anyone but Weber, Campbell (ouch), and Suter, and the same as Doughty. Does anyone think Phaneuf is the 5th best defenseman in the league?

 

[DD03]

Nope, but you dont win the cup making a guy who is not a #1 d man on a cup winner, your #1 d man who hampers your cap flexibility. I think it's more your man crush on Dion is getting in the way of common sense and perspective.

P.S to that other guy, If I can have both Seidenberg and Martin on my team for 1 mill more than I am paying Dion alone, I take it and run...

You're talking hypothetically. We can't get both of those guys, ever.. You're the only person in the hockey world right now that thinks Dion isn't a #1 d man. He's been playing like a top 10 defenseman this season. With only Keith, Suter, Karlsson, clearly out playing him. Pretty good company, IMO.

Paul Martin hasn't won **** either.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Nope, but you dont win the cup making a guy who is not a #1 d man on a cup winner, your #1 d man who hampers your cap flexibility. I think it's more your man crush on Dion is getting in the way of common sense and perspective.

P.S to that other guy, If I can have both Seidenberg and Martin on my team for 1 mill more than I am paying Dion alone, I take it and run...

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

You're talking hypothetically. We can't get both of those guys, ever.. You're the only person in the hockey world right now that thinks Dion isn't a #1 d man. He's been playing like a top 10 defenseman this season. With only Keith, Suter, Karlsson, clearly out playing him. Pretty good company, IMO.

Paul Martin hasn't won **** either.

Karlsson has been outplaying him? Maybe in terms of offense, but defense? No way in hell, Karlsson has been brutal in that regard this season.

 

[TML23]

He could easily start declining in 2 or 3 years, never mind 5.

I look at Phaneuf today and don't understand how he deserves a raise AND a longer deal than his last one. He's a #1D for sure, but this would give him a higher cap hit than anyone but Weber, Campbell (ouch), and Suter, and the same as Doughty. Does anyone think Phaneuf is the 5th best defenseman in the league?

Again, haven't you heard the cap going up in the next few years? Players' agents are aware of this and the management as well. You cannot compare previous contracts with contracts that are being signed today just by looking at raw numbers.

 

[wulfio*]

again your talking nonsense.

you have no idea just an opinion that Dion can not be a #1D on a cup winning team.
and as far as an extra 500K in salalry increase if this hampers our cap flexibility
then something is definietely wrong

again dont let your blind hate dictate your reasoning

His 6.5 is hampering the cap. He's overpaid by about 2.5 mill. So soon it will be a 3 mill overpayment for what he brings. That's called hampering your ability to field a winner. He will definitely make $7 mill. Yakupov will one day be a massive earner. Kovalev used to make a **** ton of money. Gonchar made boat loads. Komisarek earned his contract too. Semin earned his money. Ovechkin earned his money... Imagine building a team with all these guys, who all deserved the money they signed for? It's just not the right kind of player to build around. And neither is Phaneuf.

My previous statement still stands.

Seidenberg + Martin @ $8 mill > Phaneuf @ $7 mill. All day long.

 

[dimi78]

Phaneuf is no way a 3rd or 4th dman. I have no idea how you are coming up with this.

Have you seen the UFA market for a few years down the road? There aren't many good players to sign. Phaneuf has all the leverage here. You damn know he will get at least 7x7 if he goes to free agency.

That's what disappoints me most on here underrating the teams best players.

This has been an issue in this market for far too long in that we crap on the teams best players as not being good enough and completely overrate the teams decent depth players like Gunnarsson, Kulemin, McLement it boggles my mind in why this market does this.

For years Sundin was never good enough and now that he's gone we would kill to have him today. That's exactly what will happen if Phaneuf isn't re-signed the Leafs will have a daunting task finding somebody as good as him and even if they did find a replacement the process will just revert to the same old that the replacement isn't good enough. This trend is mind boggling. How about for once we take a good look at what needs improvement rather than craping on the teams best players?

I don't know how about the organization doesn't overpay and over value roll players that don't provide points is a start. Clarkson isn't the only one over payed so is Gunnarsson, soon Bolland will be along with Kulemin, McLement, Bozak.... Yet a legitimate stud D men who plays all situations, captain of the team an allstar is where this market gets picky at who to pay. Boggles my mind