Did you want Pacioretty gone?

[417]

Sure, given things would be different.

Won't get into that nonsense again.

It's not nonsense....

The same reasons why you want to trade 29-30yr old Pacioretty cause the team just finished 4th last overall and needs to maximize it's most valuable assets...

Is the same reasons why I wanted to do the same thing with 29-30yr old Plekanec

Like exact same reasons

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'll be happy if we get shutout.
Where you can argue that I should want him to score is so it raises his value, to which I'd say you have a point. But you are terrible at arguing and making strong points..so can't say I'm surprised you missed an obvious one here.

I like to have discussions and good debates but you like to have arguments. It's pretty clear. Can't wait for your next complaint

 

[Kriss E]

I like to have discussions and good debates but you like to have arguments. It's pretty clear. Can't wait for your next complaint

You're just upset that I'm often right and you've been wrong about everything regarding this group.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're just upset that I'm often right and you've been wrong about everything regarding this group.

. You are a day dreamer. Grow up. It's OK to have a difference of opinion. You are the only one who gets upset when there is a disagreement.

You made me spit my coffee onto my screen. It laughed pretty hard at this one.

 

[Kriss E]

It's not nonsense....

The same reasons why you want to trade 29-30yr old Pacioretty cause the team just finished 4th last overall and needs to maximize it's most valuable assets...

Is the same reasons why I wanted to do the same thing with 29-30yr old Plekanec

Like exact same reasons

Plekanec was signed to an extension on Oct 16th 2015. We had just come out of a 110pt season and there were no reasons to believe we would just fall off the earth.
So no, not the same situation, at all.

 

[Kriss E]

. You are a day dreamer. Grow up. It's OK to have a difference of opinion. You are the only one who gets upset when there is a disagreement.

You made me spit my coffee onto my screen. It laughed pretty hard at this one.

Well I'm glad you finally realize some posts are meant as jokes or humorous jabs, maybe you will catch on quicker from now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well I'm glad you finally realize some posts are meant as jokes or humorous jabs, maybe you will catch on quicker from now.

Everything you say is a JOKE? We agree! haha. I'm kidding

 

[417]

Plekanec was signed to an extension on Oct 16th 2015. We had just come out of a 110pt season and there were no reasons to believe we would just fall off the earth.
So no, not the same situation, at all.

29-30yr old Plekanec = 2012-2013 season

Also Bergevin's 1st season as GM...which coincides with when I started talking about the Habs needing to maximize on his value.

His extension that came later, he was already beginning to slow down considerably, yes we came off a 110pt season but we also got beat in the playoffs by a Bolts team we should have beat and Plekanec was one of the main reasons why we lost (like Pacioretty vs the Rags 2yrs ago)

The situations are almost identical, even if you'll never admit it.

Everyone here recognizes why we had to move Pacioertty, not because hes a bad player, quite the opposite.

But because the team has larger needs and given they're not a team that's very good, it makes sense to maximize his value.

The same thing was true in 2012-13 with Pleks...

I'm really having trouble understanding how you cant see the parallel...

But I suppose that doesn't matter...deep down, we both know the deal lol

 

[Kriss E]

29-30yr old Plekanec = 2012-2013 season

Also Bergevin's 1st season as GM...which coincides with when I started talking about the Habs needing to maximize on his value.

His extension that came later, he was already beginning to slow down considerably, yes we came off a 110pt season but we also got beat in the playoffs by a Bolts team we should have beat and Plekanec was one of the main reasons why we lost (like Pacioretty vs the Rags 2yrs ago)

The situations are almost identical, even if you'll never admit it.

Everyone here recognizes why we had to move Pacioertty, not because hes a bad player, quite the opposite.

But because the team has larger needs and given they're not a team that's very good, it makes sense to maximize his value.

The same thing was true in 2012-13 with Pleks...

I'm really having trouble understanding how you cant see the parallel...

But I suppose that doesn't matter...deep down, we both know the deal lol

Go back to summer 2012 threads, you'll see plenty of people were okay with doing a rebuild. That is actually why people even liked Bergevin at first, he said Habs need to rebuild through the draft and development, slowly. Many understood this as, let's trade, collect picks+prospects, draft high, which was widely accepted.

But then 12-13 rolled around, and the kids performed better than expected, along with Markov's return. So the plan changed, we needed to add. Trading Plekanec was accepted so long as he was bringing back a capable center right away. Trading him for a draft pick or young prospect, wasn't.

 

[habsgirl5000]

It's not nonsense....

The same reasons why you want to trade 29-30yr old Pacioretty cause the team just finished 4th last overall and needs to maximize it's most valuable assets...

Is the same reasons why I wanted to do the same thing with 29-30yr old Plekanec

Like exact same reasons

and the same reasons why i wanted to do the same thing with a 30 year old price

 

[417]

Go back to summer 2012 threads, you'll see plenty of people were okay with doing a rebuild. That is actually why people even liked Bergevin at first, he said Habs need to rebuild through the draft and development, slowly. Many understood this as, let's trade, collect picks+prospects, draft high, which was widely accepted.

But then 12-13 rolled around, and the kids performed better than expected, along with Markov's return. So the plan changed, we needed to add. Trading Plekanec was accepted so long as he was bringing back a capable center right away. Trading him for a draft pick or young prospect, wasn't.

And that was a mistake...

2012-13 season was a mirage induced by a short season - this revealed itself when the Habs got abused by an inferior Ottawa Senators team (Plekanec especially was bad that series).

We didn't need a "capable center" in a trade for Plekanec anymore than we needed a "capable winger" for Pacioretry, we already had Eller, Desharnais (who at that point was a decent middle 6 C) and a recently drafted Galchenyuk who needed the exposure to playing centre.

This was pure shortsightedness...and it eventually led to the team having to overpay him on an extension a few years later because of their reliance on him and no one else.

MB should of stuck to the original plan...if you're GM who takes over a team that finished 3rd last, something is wrong with the core of the team...that should be obvious, teams dont finish 3rd last by accident or random occurrence.

That was his fatal mistake

 

[habsgirl5000]

And that was a mistake...

2012-13 season was a mirage induced by a short season - this revealed itself when the Habs got abused by an inferior Ottawa Senators team (Plekanec especially was bad that series).

the 2012-13 season was all smoke and mirrors.....i think it clouded MBs judgement

 

[badi]

Glad he escaped this clown organisation
He will score 35 goals easy this year

 

[CHarlie]

yep couldn't stand to watch him f*** up every single pass he made....good riddance

 

[Capitano]

I didn't want him gone but the situation had gotten untenable...

Other than that...Max Pacioretty's value moving forward and the Montreal Canadiens situation moving forward, were not the same.

The Habs needed to cash in, as much as they could, now...before Pacioretty turned into another Tomas Plekanec for them.

I just wish we traded him a couple of years ago when we could have gotten a lot more for him. A lot of people on these boards were suggesting that. And as you mentioned it has happened with other players in the past that should have been traded to fetch a bunch of future assets.

Max is a solid 30-35 goal man and he managed to do it without a clear cut C to pass him the puck...so he is a good contributor for sure, and he would thrive in a place where there is a lot of depth up front. But he is not a core player or worth core player money. Vegas did ok with that 4 year term though imo. But even at that term I'd prefer to trade him because we're nowhere close to contending.

It's just too bad our GM didn't have a vision prior to this because Max could have fetched a significant return a couple of years ago.

 

[Capitano]

And that was a mistake...

2012-13 season was a mirage induced by a short season - this revealed itself when the Habs got abused by an inferior Ottawa Senators team (Plekanec especially was bad that series).

We didn't need a "capable center" in a trade for Plekanec anymore than we needed a "capable winger" for Pacioretry, we already had Eller, Desharnais (who at that point was a decent middle 6 C) and a recently drafted Galchenyuk who needed the exposure to playing centre.

This was pure shortsightedness...and it eventually led to the team having to overpay him on an extension a few years later because of their reliance on him and no one else.

MB should of stuck to the original plan...if you're GM who takes over a team that finished 3rd last, something is wrong with the core of the team...that should be obvious, teams dont finish 3rd last by accident or random occurrence.

That was his fatal mistake

Just goes to show that he was not ready for the position. The only hope we have is that he learned from his mistakes and is basically using the last 5 years as a learning experience. Think back to a few years ago at who the core of this team was...Price...Subban...Pacioretty...Galchenyuk - only Price remains. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

 

[Uber Coca]

I wanted him gone.

Not because of his performance or his attitude, but following the 2016-2017 playoffs and with Radulov leaving, I couldn't see this team progressing anymore. Amongst some players, Pacioretty became, in my view, one of the players with decent value that could help rebuilding the roster with younger players and centers. Also, Pacioretty has done well on a team struggling to create scoring chances and score goals, but he remains a complimentary asset as he won't lead a team by himself.

All the best to him and hopefully he performs in Vegas.

 

[tazsub3]

For 3 years now.

Reason: He's so damn frustrating to watch in the playoffs.

I don't care much about regular season stats anymore.

Also i think in the regular season, last few years he is living on his past, his efforts are half hearted, and stats padded with empty nets, or goals that dont matter.

 

[habsgirl5000]

I just wish we traded him a couple of years ago when we could have gotten a lot more for him. A lot of people on these boards were suggesting that. And as you mentioned it has happened with other players in the past that should have been traded to fetch a bunch of future assets.

yes.....like carey price

 

[Capitano]

yes.....like carey price

At this point I agree, but it's a shame that we didn't do anything to build around Carey when he was at his peak. We just kept drafting first round picks in the late 20's.

Carey's contract is going to be difficult to trade...so again our GM has no real vision or thinking ahead process when he does things.

 

[stanley25]

Yes. Just makes sense for the future of this team being as when we should be in contention Patches will be already 32-33 years old. With that said if we were a contender I would really want him on this team. All the best in your future endeavors el capitain.

 

[Capitano]

Yes. Just makes sense for the future of this team being as when we should be in contention Patches will be already 32-33 years old. With that said if we were a contender I would really want him on this team. All the best in your future endeavors el capitain.

Well said...I'm not 100% sure if Vegas fits that definition because they did a lot with blue collar effort last year but Max is a guy that you add if you're a contender for sure. I think a lot of the contenders likely shied away from him because he wanted pretty big money. I think if you're having to overspend on players (like JVR) then you've done something wrong during your team build and throwing money at a solution.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The situations are almost identical, even if you'll never admit it.

When Plekanec was 30, the Habs were a team with a young core who went on to 3 consecutive 100+ point seasons. (extrapolating 2012-13)
Does that sound like this year's team?

Yes, he could have rebuilt in 2012 (Markov, Plekanec, Cole), but he had another option at the time: address the #1 center situation - via draft, managing Galchenyuk, dealing with MT/DD; be patient, acquire picks. He did none of this.

This time around, the situation is different, not almost identical. This time around he doesn't have a young core, and has no choice but to retool/rebuild/reset. He's not a move or two away.

 

[Kriss E]

And that was a mistake...

Sure.

2012-13 season was a mirage induced by a short season - this revealed itself when the Habs got abused by an inferior Ottawa Senators team (Plekanec especially was bad that series).

Habs got beaten by Ottawa mostly because they killed Eller, our 2nd best center that year, and Gionta, still a crucial top 6 player to us, also got hurt. To that, you had Galch-Galla, two rookies.
It wasn't a mirage at all. We had some solid youngsters in Price, PK, Patches, Eller, Galch, Gallagher.
Plekanec, Gionta, and Markov were good veterans to have as well.
This wasn't a lucky season.

We didn't need a "capable center" in a trade for Plekanec anymore than we needed a "capable winger" for Pacioretry, we already had Eller, Desharnais (who at that point was a decent middle 6 C) and a recently drafted Galchenyuk who needed the exposure to playing centre.

Going in with Eller-DD-Galch would have made us worse, but still with enough talent to be in the POs. So, not sure what the point is.
If you're saying we should have rebuilt, well then, DD shouldn't have been there either. We also should have traded Gionta and Markov.
As I said multiple times over the years, the problem with this management is the failure to commit to a direction. Either go all in with rebuild, so trade Pleks-DD-Gionta-Markov-Cole and the likes.
Keep the kids in the minors without these pointless call ups/downs, bring in an excellent developmental coach, sign players you can dish away as rental for picks/prospects.
If not, then you improve. Move DD to make room for Galch at center, sign Jagr, focus on speed, skill and puck movement, not Briere-Murray-Parros. Move 1st round picks if you have to. If you move Plekanec, it's for a capable center right away, Beaulieu was a good prospect at the time, package him in there for upgrade.

Pick a direction and go all in. Moving Plek just to add a pick and later prospect would have simply made us a bit worse, but not enough for us to miss the POs imo.

Again, the problem was with the lack of planning and commitment.

MB should of stuck to the original plan...if you're GM who takes over a team that finished 3rd last, something is wrong with the core of the team...that should be obvious, teams dont finish 3rd last by accident or random occurrence.

That was his fatal mistake

He obviously never had any plan. He had an idea, not a plan.

And the core was changing when he took over. The 11-12 core was not at all the same as 13-14.

 

[417]

When Plekanec was 30, the Habs were a team with a young core who went on to 3 consecutive 100+ point seasons. (extrapolating 2012-13)
Does that sound like this year's team?

You shouldn't extrapolate that 2012-13 team given the circumstances surrounding that league year, not to mention the way the regular season and playoffs ended for the Habs...they weren't very good, they had low expectations and got off to a hot start in a lockout year.

As for the subsequent years...you can't really compare.

Yes, he could have rebuilt in 2012 (Markov, Plekanec, Cole), but he had another option at the time: address the #1 center situation - via draft, managing Galchenyuk, dealing with MT/DD; be patient, acquire picks. He did none of this.

Do you think he might of been able to do that with the assets he would of received for #14?

This time around, the situation is different, not almost identical. This time around he doesn't have a young core, and has no choice but to retool/rebuild/reset. He's not a move or two away.

The team has the same needs as it did then...

And I'm not sure how you can say they have no young core when the majority of their roster is 25 and under

Take #14 out of the equation and the oldest forward is Paul Byron and he's 28.

I also never said they were 1 or 2 moves away, they do need to rebuild/retool/reset...

And the moves they've done lately point to just that.