Did Murray try to put together a 30th place team?

[haseoke39]

"Accidental" wasn't the sticking point, it was "has". Are you saying people think they must finish last and it is not on purpose? Because that's different than how I read it. I read it as "people think they must finish last and it needs to be not on purpose".

Um.... I'm pretty agnostic on that. Either reading is fine by me.

 

[Sabretooth]

They overlap broadly.

Not really.

 

[Paxon]

Um.... I'm pretty agnostic on that. Either reading is fine by me.

The first one makes sense logically but I don't think it's fair to everyone voting no because it's pretty clear most of them don't see it so simply as it all being an accident that we're in 30th place. The second one isn't a logical conclusion to draw because believing Murray didn't necessarily try and build the 30th place team doesn't indicate whether someone thinks it'd have been wrong to have done so.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I think if the Reinhart/Girgensons/Myers/Risto group got off to a hot start that looked sustainable, he wouldn't kneecap the team. That didn't happen, so the tank went on as scheduled.

 

[haseoke39]

Not really.

Well, incidental could also encompass a subordinate goal, but if it's a subordinate goal, it's still a goal, and the poll answer is yes.

Otherwise, accidental and incidental share the same primary definition of not being pursued by a plan.

 

[Zip15]

Murray knew that it was more likely than not that the team he put together would finish 30th. That is my position.

 

[haseoke39]

Murray knew that it was more likely than not that the team he put together would finish 30th. That is my position.

That could be true whether the answer to the question is yes or if it's no.

 

[Beerz]

Shoe goes on the other foot too. I see plenty of people who voted yes on here that when on the main board tank threads defend Murray roster decisions as not tanking and were necessary for such n such reasons.

 

[Beerz]

Haseoke thinks if this team wasn't put together as a 30th place team then Murray is a failure.


The absolutes are astonishing.

Murray did this. This guy is horrible Therefore he wants to finish 30th. Murray could of done that. He didn't ..therefore he wants to finish 30th.

 

[joshjull]

Murray knew that it was more likely than not that the team he put together would finish 30th. That is my position.

Mine as well.

 

[cramdizzl]

That nails it. It makes it easy for Murray to be his usual blunt self without coming out and saying "We want 30th place". Very easy.

My position as well.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

Murray knew that it was more likely than not that the team he put together would finish 30th. That is my position.

Same. Or, more so, he mostly inherited this team that would finish 30th and didn't do anything to stop it, focusing on 2015 as time to get serious.

 

[jd1970]

The previous GM confessed that the Sabres would be throwing this season. This guy's just following orders.

 

[Clock]

I boil it down to "Was Murray's biggest and primary objective to bottom out this year?"

I say no. He didn't do much to improve the situation, but that's what I'd want anyhow. Horde the assets for when the team "naturally" becomes relevant again as the younger talent takes over.

That's not to say Murray has no investment in bottoming out because that obviously isn't the case, but I also think that if Murray's big goal was to bottom out with all other concerns being subordinate, maybe we wouldn't have Nolan coaching and maybe a move or two would have been initiated during the team's hot streak.

 

[Savitar]

I voted all along the goal was to punt the 2015 season and only thinking of future seasons

 

[BFLO]

Long time lurker, new to posting. I'm not able to vote in the poll?

Would vote yes.

If Murray didn't assemble this roster to finish 30th on purpose, we're in much bigger trouble than Mceichel can dig us out from.

 

[HP00]

Honestly I'd say Darcy did more to get this team 30th. All Murray did was trade Miller and sign some FAs. That said he didn't do much to pull this team any higher than 30th so I suppose thats a yes

 

[haseoke39]

Haseoke thinks if this team wasn't put together as a 30th place team then Murray is a failure.


The absolutes are astonishing.

Murray did this. This guy is horrible Therefore he wants to finish 30th. Murray could of done that. He didn't ..therefore he wants to finish 30th.

Um......what?

 

[Beerz]

Um......what?

I thought I've read you say..

Haseoke thinks if this team wasn't put together as a 30th place team then Murray is a failure.

If you haven't I apologize for pulling a Brian Williams and misremembering ..

 

[haseoke39]

I thought I've read you say..




If you haven't I apologize for pulling a Brian Williams and misremembering ..

Well, he obviously failed to improve the team this season, so unless that was intentional, it doesn't say good things about his work in the offseason. I think incremental progress must be expected even where a team is a long ways away and being generally patient. I accept that lack of progress only because of the tank, but if that isn't part of his plan, this level of uncompetitiveness creates a poor atmosphere for young developing players.

In the larger lens, that certainly wouldn't make him a failure, though. He's being judged on a longer time table, and his ability to make moves that create long term success.

 

[Beerz]

Well, he obviously failed to improve the team this season, so unless that was intentional, it doesn't say good things about his work in the offseason. I think incremental progress must be expected even where a team is a long ways away and being generally patient. I accept that lack of progress only because of the tank, but if that isn't part of his plan, this level of uncompetitiveness creates a poor atmosphere for young developing players.

In the larger lens, that certainly wouldn't make him a failure, though. He's being judged on a longer time table, and his ability to make moves that create long term success.

Fair enough.

 

[VaporTrail]

no....D'arse did it....He only inherited it.

 

[wunderpanda]

no....D'arse did it....He only inherited it.

He had signed or traded for half the roster that started the this season though.
Moulson, Stewart, Gionta, Mitchell, Deslauriers, McCormick, Gorges, Benoit, Strachen, Mezsaros, Neuvirth

Darcy should get credit for Zemgus, Risto and Zad if he is getting blamed for Flynn or Weber.

 

[Paxon]

He had signed or traded for half the roster that started the this season though.
Moulson, Stewart, Gionta, Mitchell, Deslauriers, McCormick, Gorges, Benoit, Strachen, Mezsaros, Neuvirth

Darcy should get credit for Zemgus, Risto and Zad if he is getting blamed for Flynn or Weber.

That he added that many players without any improvement at all says a lot about the starting position he had, especially after dealing the UFA's at the deadlline. It also says a lot about other things of course.

 

[JLewyB]

The fact that pysyk should have been on this roster should show that he wanted a 30th place team. I don't think he expected Zadorov to force his way on this team. He was the catylist for the 10 in 13 run. This team was meant to have 3 of weber, stractan, Benoit and Mez playing at all times.