Did Murray try to put together a 30th place team?

[enthusiast]

No he didn't.

No reason to lie, don't care if you think I am

that said for those who've run into him out and about before, he sure likes to talk after a few

 

[Beerz]

Then you voted yes?

Of course not. The question wasn't ..did Murray build a team for a High Draft pick. It was did he build a team for 30th place finish.

I don't believe he did.. I believe he made moves that best suited the rebuild regardless of draft position or who was eligible to be drafted this year. The moves that make sense for the rebuild are going to result in you taking on players that aren't very good because any worthwhile players for one aren't going to settle for 1 yr deals and most likely wouldn't be interested in signing with a team that has just entered a tear down.


Edit: There wasn't a lot he could do that would make this team not be competing for 30th place.

 

[Beerz]

No reason to lie, don't care if you think I am

that said for those who've run into him out and about before, he sure likes to talk after a few

Ok... I was thinking you were talking about on the record. I can't really say anything to your allegation.

 

[Fearnot]

Barely by the looks of it.

 

[Beerz]

I think people are being much too simplistic and lazy when looking at things... As well as looking at things thru their own eyes as fans instead of being practical about the matter.

 

[sabrebuild]

As has been noticed with this topic and related talk, a simple yes or no lacks all context to make it mean anything.

I said no. Because guess what Tim Murray didn't build or put together most of this team. The pieces he did add have pretty much succeeded at their jobs, Gorges, Deslauriers and Gionta. And I may be in the minority but I would bet on Moulson having a good year next year if he plays with McEichel or gets to play on a secondary line with Girgs or Reinhart. The guys he traded away have either brought returns that have succeeded right away, Bogosian, or were for guys that were not coming back this year anyway, Vanek and Miller.

Murray had nothing to do with Hodgson and Ennis not being quality center options. Or the fact that this team didn't have a quality left handed defensemen since Sekera was traded. The two dominant reasons why this team is atrocious is a lack of any center depth behind Girgs, who at this stage should be a third center on a decent team, and a lack of quality veteran defensemen.

So no, Murray didn't build this team as of yet so its a stupid question that desperately wants to cling to some black and white world were being upset and bored at how a bad season looks. Ask this poll next year when the gm has actually been on the job for more than a year and has had time to build the team in his image.

Darcy Regier built this team for 30th place 2 years ago, but I guess since he's not here anymore someone else must be responsible.

 

[Afino]

Strictly speaking, yes. But I think he did a good enough job of making it look like he was trying and wanted to help out youngsters here as much as he could.

 

[JLewyB]

I think people are being much too simplistic and lazy when looking at things... As well as looking at things thru their own eyes as fans instead of being practical about the matter.

you honestly didnt think we had the 30th best roster going into this season?

 

[Beerz]

you honestly didnt think we had the 30th best roster going into this season?

I didn't say that. Yes I believed we had the 30th best roster.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

I don't think there was any move or moves he could have made this offseason to prevent us from being a bottom 5 team.

We were going to suck no matter what Murray did. Miller and Vanek weren't resigning, Ehrhoff wanted out... So once they were gone it was a lock we would pick in the top 5

 

[JLewyB]

I didn't say that. Yes I believed we had the 30th best roster.

I guess, I get the chicken/egg argument but I think Murray would have put out the exact same type of product out there if he had the choice. His goal this season was to build a team that would lose properly. He said he would be willing to manipulate the roster in his first presser ever in a way to make it worse. He chose to be a GM here because that was the plan. to be 30th and then go from there

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Yes but it is too simplistic.

It's not enough to finish last. You've also got to have a plan to get out of last place afterwards. It's a tricky balance but that's what he tried to do by bringing in the vets he did.

Awfulness cannot become permanent. Otherwise you get what's happening in Edmonton.

 

[ZeroPT*]

you can't answer this with a yes or no. Do I think Murray was hyperventilating like this board was on the winning streak? Noooooo.
I do think he didn't sign a bunch of worthless UFA's to make a run like Florida and then suck next year. He obviously could have "improved" and gotten the approval of righteous HF fans everywhere. This was a standard rebuild summer. Adding quality veterans to have a proper support system and not rush the kids.
Did he enter the year with McEichel in mind? sure.
Did he enter the year thinking they were 100% imperative to the rebuild's success? No.

It seems many are forgetting the drama we had over the summer about playing our way out of 30th. Oh and I firmly believe there is no way someone can build such a **** team. Even if he wanted 30th from the get go I doubt he expected it to be this bad.

 

[slip]

When you inherit one of the weakest rosters ever assembled in modern NHL history, do you really have to try to suck, or is it simply pre-ordained?

 

[Onry]

As to the direct question by the OP....no

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Darcy laid the groundwork, pretty hard to say Murray is responsible when so many roster players were Darcy's doing.

 

[Clock]

No. Biproduct of the rebuild.

 

[BornBuffaloFan]

you are lying to yourself if you don't' think Murray was shooting for a top 2 pick this year…

even before last years draft, people were saying "it would be better to be 30th next year for the Mcdavid and Eichel draft"


Murray saw it. Explained it to Pegula that the return on one purposely put together bad season will have 15 years of TV exposure and sold out seats

Pegula is on board…. and in 5 years, Murray and Pegula will look like geniuses

see: Indianapolis Colts

 

[OhreallyOrielly]

His goal is to win a Stanley Cup. If you don't have a chance to do so this year you make moves for next year and beyond. If those moves get you closer to the top in a draft with generational talent in the 1 and 2 spots so be it. He's doing his job to the best of his ability. I'd link it if I could find it. But there's a great espn video about the Penguins tank. That's a tank.

We're not icing our worst player on the power play or anything. He built a team with an eye toward future glory. So be it.

 

[SundherDome]

The way I see it he built a team with some complimentary players (Moulson, Gionta, Gorges). He then filled in the rest of the team with reserve type players( Flynn, Mez, Benoit) and a few prospects who are young building blocks ( Risto, Zads) and then some players that are trying to prove their worth to other clubs for after this year (Ellis, Nuevirth, Mitchell, Strachan ). He built a club that could grind out games and with solid goaltending finish in the bottom 10. He however did not build a 30th place team.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

you are lying to yourself if you don't' think Murray was shooting for a top 2 pick this year…

even before last years draft, people were saying "it would be better to be 30th next year for the Mcdavid and Eichel draft"

Murray saw it. Explained it to Pegula that the return on one purposely put together bad season will have 15 years of TV exposure and sold out seats

The team was already historically bad when Murray inherited it. He's made the moves to get them out of the basement quicker, but he's not the one who built this **** pile.

 

[matthew94]

I haven't read through the thread

Nor did I answer the poll

Mainly because I think it is flawed

They already were a 30th place team. In fact, they were so far behind 29th (14pts) that even significant improvement might have landed them in 30th again.

I think Murray wanted the team to improve. But improving significantly wasn't really a live option. What was he expected to do? Give all the top free agents outrageous contracts (it's not like everyone wants to play for last years 30th place team... it's actually pretty amazing Moulson and Gionta were willing to come)? Trade all the top prospects for NHL vets? Those sorts of moves would have been asinine!

He took a terrible 30th place team and did what every GM in the league would have done... started to build 1 step at a time.

 

[haseoke39]

Interesting so far.

I wonder if the results would be any different if there weren't such an anti tanking culture in certain media and from other fanbases.

 

[matthew94]

To me, it's like investing in a new business. You're starting from scratch. You expect to lose a lot in the first year or two.

If someone asked the investor... "Did you TRY to lose money this year?" He/she would just find it an odd question, posed by someone who doesn't understand the way things work. "Of course I didn't TRY to lose money, but I pretty much knew I would... and I think it'll be worth it before too long."

 

[HOOats]

Understanding how bad the team he inherited was and the perfect set up he had, I'm 99% positive that Murray - the lifelong Ontario rinkrat scout controlling a new organization with a clean slate within a year of the 2015 draft - made it his #1 personal goal to get McDavid (or Eichel as consolation.) These are players that individuals in management build careers and legacies around.

Hell you can picture him getting drunk at some northern outpost gloating over his windfall to his scouting buddies. And them being bitter about it. It's an absolute dream scenario for a GM coming from the ranks of amateur scouting. I have no doubt that his heart and his head are completely aligned with the tank. I think every move he has made has been harmonious with if not in direct support of the 2015 tank.