Did Mac Hollowell's progress make Durzi expendable

[hotpaws]

didn't like the Durzi pick but a D the size of a circus midget doesn't replace anyone

Dubas has to stop with his infatuation with drafting smurfs and guys who've already been passed over once/twice .

 

[Mickey Marner]

I think Muzzin made Durzi expendable.

Exactly.

Hollowell had been better than Durzi for two years, he's just a shrimp.

 

[Mess]

"Hollow Man," has torn up the O this year, 54pts in 44 games. Durzi has 27 in 28. My belief is a huge yes, and Sandin is the obvious other reason. Thoughts?

You might want to check the birth certificate of Mac Hollowell ..

- This kid is an overager and one of the oldest players in the OHL at age 20 turning 21 in Sept.
- This is his 5th year in the OHL where most players max out a 4 years of junior.
- He was passed over in 2 entry drafts before becoming a mid round pick by the Leafs on his 3rd and last go round, and perhaps only selected because of Dubas ties to the Soo.
- He plays on one of the top teams in the OHL so his stats reflect that.
- He is 5-10 /175lbs dman & how many of those do you see in the entire NHL?

Always a bad sign when drafted players aged 20 get sent back to junior, and if he was as good as you believe he is based on his OHL stats, he really should be at his age be playing on the Marlies.

Mac Hollowell is to Leafs D prospects that Adam Brooks is to their forwards group.

I'd be surprised if Leafs organization had Hollowell in their top 10 prospect rankings and he would be a real long shot to make the NHL. IMO

 

[MyBudJT]

You might want to check the birth certificate of Marc Howell ..

- This kid is an overager and one of the oldest players in the OHL at age 20 turning 21 in Sept.
- This is his 5th year in the OHL where most players max out a 4 years of junior.
- He was passed over in 2 entry drafts before becoming a mid round pick by the Leafs on his 3rd and last go round, and perhaps only selected because of Dubas ties to the Soo.
- He plays on one of the top teams in the OHL so his stats reflect that.
- He is 5-10 /175lbs dman & how many of those do you see in the entire NHL?

Always a bad sign when drafted players aged 20 get sent back to junior, and if he was as good as you believe he is based on his OHL stats, he really should be at his age be playing on the Marlies.

Mac Hollowell is to Leafs D prospects that Adam Brooks is to their forwards group.

I'd be surprised if Leafs organization had Hollowell in their top 10 prospect rankings and he would be a real long shot to make the NHL. IMO

Could make a solid argument that Hollowell > Durzi though.

Also, your point about being on one of the top teams is pretty well irrelevant. Hollowell is 2nd on the team in scoring, even though he plays defense... Hollowell isn't good because of SSM, SSM is good because of Hollowell...

There a few NHL defensmen that played their OA years in the CHL... Jake Muzzin, Jared Spurgeon, Giordano, Girardi come to mind... Lots of solid forward too like Marchessault, Johnson, Burrows, Brouwer, Hoffman...etc.

I think you're concerns about overagers are a little overstated to be honest... Whats the difference of a 20 year old playing their OA season in the CHL vs a 23 or 24 year old still playing in the NCAA? There are plenty of examples of both still making a solid NHL impact...

Hollowell is easily a top 10 prospect in our organization.

 

[aingefan]

I’d say that having four Marlie RD worth ELC’s made the move possible, sure.

But if I were a betting man, I’d say Lindgren’s quiet, slow cooked development and timeline was a bigger factor.

That said, I don’t doubt Hollowell gets as fair a shake as possible here.

 

[biotk]

Always a bad sign when drafted players aged 20 get sent back to junior, and if he was as good as you believe he is based on his OHL stats, he really should be at his age be playing on the Marlies.

While I agree that it is not great, the Leafs knew who they drafting in both Durzi and Hollowell.

And it should be noted the Leafs just traded a 1st and two prospects for a guy who was 7 or 8 months older than both Durzi and Hollowell during his last season in the OHL, after being passed over in the draft completely the previous summer as a 20 year old.

 

[Orfieus]

Durzi is a good prospect and I'm sad to see him go but the return will hopefully be great

 

[zeke]

overage CHLers are always expendable.

 

[TorontoTrades]

I think Muzzin made Durzi expendable.

This.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Prospects mean nothing. It's having NHL player that are important. Overaged juniors have almost no hope of being future NHLers,,,certainly not difference makers.

 

[topched]

The answer to all of these “did x prospect make x prospect expendable” is no. Always.

Until a player has fully matured at the NHL, you don’t know what they are. You want as many prospects as you can to maximize the potential for one of them becoming a good player.

 

[Warden of the North]

Um a point a game D in OHL isnt C level. My point is Hollow has made a big step this yr and playing better then Durzi.

In his draft +2 year if hes not putting up crazy numbers in the OHL he'd be considered a bust. Anything less then crazy high numbers would be a disappointment.

 

[Mr Hockey]

"Hollow Man," has torn up the O this year, 54pts in 44 games. Durzi has 27 in 28. My belief is a huge yes, and Sandin is the obvious other reason. Thoughts?

I think LA had a choice of any Leaf D prospect accept for Sandin and they choose Druzi

 

[zeke]

I think LA had a choice of any Leaf prospect accept for Sandin and they choose Druzi

don't insult LA's scouts like that.

 

[93LEAFS]

No, whoever we picked in the 2nd round with that pick would most likely have been expendable to make this upgrade. What else was in our system had a limited impact. I'm sure if they asked for Hollowell, we would have included him over Durzi, same with SDA. I am glad we weren't overly attached to the pick. I think the only guys who were no goes as the 2nd add-on were Sandin, Liljegren, Bracco, Woll, our 2nd this year and Scott. Anyone else or pick in this draft would have been included.

 

[bonjovi0308]

No, whoever we picked in the 2nd round with that pick would most likely have been expendable to make this upgrade. What else was in our system had a limited impact. I'm sure if they asked for Hollowell, we would have included him over Durzi, same with SDA. I am glad we weren't overly attached to the pick. I think the only guys who were no goes as the 2nd add-on were Sandin, Liljegren, Bracco, Woll, our 2nd this year and Scott. Anyone else or pick in this draft would have been included.

Agree with most of what you said with the exception that I don't think SDA is available. If I'm the King's I will want SDA over Grundstorm. I think SDA is already a top 5 prospect in our system currently.

 

[Warden of the North]

didn't like the Durzi pick but a D the size of a circus midget doesn't replace anyone

Dubas has to stop with his infatuation with drafting smurfs and guys who've already been passed over once/twice .

The 2019 draft is the first we'll get a true indication of Dubas's draft philosophy. Hunter' methods produced last years draft as much as anyone.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Durzi and Hollowell are both "wait 3 years and then check back in" type of prospects. Neither move any needles or effect anyone else.

 

[Its not your fault]

didn't like the Durzi pick but a D the size of a circus midget doesn't replace anyone

Dubas has to stop with his infatuation with drafting smurfs and guys who've already been passed over once/twice .

Why smurfs landed us the best D in a trade with another team in how many years?

 

[Its not your fault]

While I agree that it is not great, the Leafs knew who they drafting in both Durzi and Hollowell.

And it should be noted the Leafs just traded a 1st and two prospects for a guy who was 7 or 8 months older than both Durzi and Hollowell during his last season in the OHL, after being passed over in the draft completely the previous summer as a 20 year old.

I'm sure with the Marie depth it was also to unsure development time as he would get more minutes in the CHL calling people busts at 21 is narrow-minded. The fact it's a defenceman that we all have agreed take longer to mold is a given. He was a shot in the dark I'll give you that but he was clearly had interest from other teams. Drafting players other teams want also means they have some monetary value for future trades.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Durzi and Hollowell are both "wait 3 years and then check back in" type of prospects. Neither move any needles or effect anyone else.

Yeah. With that said, both of them are also the kind of prospects that might look legit after those 3 years.

Still, I'd do the deal even if it turns out to have been Muzzin for three good prospects. He's that good, and his value to us is even higher.

 

[93LEAFS]

Agree with most of what you said with the exception that I don't think SDA is available. If I'm the King's I will want SDA over Grundstorm. I think SDA is already a top 5 prospect in our system currently.

He's been pretty bad with the Petes. He's a small guy who doesn't skate well, and is easily knocked off the puck. His production just isn't there either. I'm shocked he was already given an ELC.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

You dont trade away one guy because we have another when it comes to prospects. We should have learned that with Pogge and Rask. With prospects yiu take as many shots as you can because it's a numbers game. Durzi was expendable because we were able to get Muzzin. I'm also excited about Hollowells progress.

 

[nuck]

You might want to check the birth certificate of Mac Hollowell ..

- This kid is an overager and one of the oldest players in the OHL at age 20 turning 21 in Sept.
- This is his 5th year in the OHL where most players max out a 4 years of junior.
- He was passed over in 2 entry drafts before becoming a mid round pick by the Leafs on his 3rd and last go round, and perhaps only selected because of Dubas ties to the Soo.
- He plays on one of the top teams in the OHL so his stats reflect that.
- He is 5-10 /175lbs dman & how many of those do you see in the entire NHL?

Always a bad sign when drafted players aged 20 get sent back to junior, and if he was as good as you believe he is based on his OHL stats, he really should be at his age be playing on the Marlies.

Mac Hollowell is to Leafs D prospects that Adam Brooks is to their forwards group.

I'd be surprised if Leafs organization had Hollowell in their top 10 prospect rankings and he would be a real long shot to make the NHL. IMO

Most of the negatives you mention apply to Jared Spurgeon as well but he was dropped by the team that drafted him, rather drafted overage. They never even gave him a shot. The Hollow Man may be Brooks 2.0 or maybe not.

I do tend to agree with the ranking although the size issue may be much of what got him passed over in the draft. That and playing behind Timmins and two older D that were already drafted didn't give him a front line role until the drafted guys graduated in 17-18. I like him a lot more at 118 than Durzi at 52 (ahead of Groulx and Oloffson).

He may have been sent back because they already had two teenage D on the Marlies and they didn't want to be running a daycare center. Either way, his development in the OHL as the top D on a top team at least shows growth. I know we can't too excited at OA numbers watching what Mattinen is able to do but Mac is a dominating as you hope an OA prospect would so he isn't off the prospect path yet.

 

[vwbm]

yes I agree with your post above, I'm not sure where all the hate is coming from Kiwi and small overagers.
As you said there's been plenty of late bloomers and to my eye his poise and high end skating has me leaning towards Hollowell having a great chance if he excells at the Ahl level possibly later this year which I can see him doing.
I'm optimistic on him unlike "fake news guy" ...
He may of also excelled with Sandin I believe.