Confirmed with Link: Devils waive Cory Schneider

[JimEIV]

I don't think I ever turned off an in progress Devil's game before last night.

What this organization has become is a shame

 

[Satans Hockey]

This is underrating Schneider because he played in a home arena that undercounts shots on goal -

Not saying this hasn't been true in the past but just something I noticed last night, there was a ridiculous little dump in by Zacha that that they actually counted as a shot that never should have been counted. So maybe they got new people this season, or for last night at least? Lol

 

[NJDevs26]

That 'undercounting shots' meme around the Devils goes back to the '90's (and a couple of the Leafs were whining they had twice as many shots in their six-shot playoff game). If it was true then I doubt the same scorekeepers count shots now. And even if it is true, how many shots a game would it really take away, maybe 1-2 a game at most? Shots aren't that subjective.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

That 'undercounting shots' meme around the Devils goes back to the '90's (and a couple of the Leafs were whining they had twice as many shots in their six-shot playoff game). If it was true then I doubt the same scorekeepers count shots now. And even if it is true, how many shots a game would it really take away, maybe 1-2 a game at most? Shots aren't that subjective.

Well in the case of a player like Brodeur, it would have made a pretty significant difference considering he played nearly every game for like 15 years lol. I don’t think it was a myth either tbh. You watch some games and what is considered a shot in some arenas would have never been counted some place else. For example, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Brodeur’s highest # of saves in a game occurred at MSG. They were usually trigger happy there.

 

[NJDevs26]

It's also funny how the undercounting shots meme coincided with the Devils having an all-world defense. What's surprising is we're as willing to perpetuate it as anyone else.

Well in the case of a player like Brodeur, it would have made a pretty significant difference considering he played nearly every game for like 15 years lol. I don’t think it was a myth either tbh. You watch some games and what is considered a shot in some arenas would have never been counted some place else. For example, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Brodeur’s highest # of saves in a game occurred at MSG. They were usually trigger happy there.

1-2 shots a game for 41 home games would be about 50-75 shots over the course of a season, which might raise a save percentage from say, .917 to .920 (applying the extra 50 shots to Marty's 1997-98 for example). And if we 'undercounted' shots surely other arenas overcount them too so how much of a net would it be for the whole season? Probably slightly less, maybe slightly more.

 

[Bleedred]

Why?

Why would you include the 16-17 season? Most people aren't gonna argue that Schneider was good that season. That was his first decline year.

When looking at his career as a Devil, 13-14 through 15-16 would be the golden years. 16-17 through now would be the twilight and out to pasture years. Even more so from the start of the 2018 calendar year through present, outside of that playoff series.

It would be like saying Brodeur was one of the best goalies in the league between 2005-2011 and using the 10-11 season (his first decline year) in the calculations, which when you include that year, it probably pushes him behind quite a few guys that he would have been ahead of if you were only using the 2005-2006 through 2009-2010 seasons.

 

[haak84]

Why would you include the 16-17 season? Most people aren't gonna argue that Schneider was good that season. That was his first decline year.

When looking at his career as a Devil, 13-14 through 15-16 would be the golden years. 16-17 through now would be the twilight and out to pasture years. Even more so from the start of the 2018 calendar year through present, outside of that playoff series.

It would be like saying Brodeur was one of the best goalies in the league between 2005-2011 and using the 10-11 season (his first decline year) in the calculations, which when you include that year, it probably pushes him behind quite a few guys that he would have been ahead of if you were only using the 2005-2006 through 2009-2010 seasons.

Those were his healthy seasons with the devils. Another issue I have is did Cory just decline or was it injuries? The knock on him when he came to the devils was he never played a full season. He obviously silenced critics with his 14-15 performance but did he break down after only 3 seasons as a starter? It’s not like he’s having freak injuries or is unhealthy now. Other goalies have had similar injuries and returned to form.

 

[awegrzyn]

Then why is every other goalie on the team since his decline started outplaying him? I would be surprised if he ever plays an NHL game for another team. He’s probably out of the league after this year. I could see him playing a few more games for us and that’s it.

Well, Blackwood numbers were worst than Cory's last night.
We won't find out until he actually plays on a good team.

AHL stints don't mean much. AHL is actually more physical and faster than NHL, just not as skilled.
His stats at AHL may not show the real picture. I think someone will give him a backup offer eventually.

 

[devilsblood]

Well, Blackwood numbers were worst than Cory's last night.
We won't find out until he actually plays on a good team.

AHL stints don't mean much. AHL is actually more physical and faster than NHL, just not as skilled.
His stats at AHL may not show the real picture. I think someone will give him a backup offer eventually.

Sorry to nit pick a single point, but, nah.

 

[BulletTheBlueSky]

This team is small and plays small. We get handled every night. Its painful to watch.

 

[Bleedred]

Well, Blackwood numbers were worst than Cory's last night.
We won't find out until he actually plays on a good team.

His numbers were worse than Cory’s for one game? And? His numbers have been better than Cory’s since he entered the NHL. Not to mention that last night was probably one of the worst games Blackwood has played in the NHL, as far as the quality of goals allowed.

 

[Bleedred]

Those were his healthy seasons with the devils. Another issue I have is did Cory just decline or was it injuries? The knock on him when he came to the devils was he never played a full season. He obviously silenced critics with his 14-15 performance but did he break down after only 3 seasons as a starter? It’s not like he’s having freak injuries or is unhealthy now. Other goalies have had similar injuries and returned to form.

He may not have missed games in 16-17, but he had surgery on his groin in the offseason before that. It was likely the hip, which is often misdiagnosed as the groin.

I would say it was the injuries. Nobody goes from being that good to being that bad without injuries.

If his hip injury wasn’t well documented, I would say maybe you could argue he just declined, but it’s pretty obvious it was the injuries.

 

[MadDevil]

2016-17 was the year he alternated between being good and bad for like 1-2 month stretches wasn't it?

 

[Bleedred]

2016-17 was the year he alternated between being good and bad for like 1-2 month stretches wasn't it?

He had a really good October that year, one of his best ever, I think. Then it went downhill in November, particularly middle to late November, if I recall correctly. Had a dreadful December, before his play came back up again until around March or so.

 

[Bleedred]

That 'undercounting shots' meme around the Devils goes back to the '90's (and a couple of the Leafs were whining they had twice as many shots in their six-shot playoff game). If it was true then I doubt the same scorekeepers count shots now. And even if it is true, how many shots a game would it really take away, maybe 1-2 a game at most? Shots aren't that subjective.

One big thing I've noticed with shot counting, particularly when watching other games around the league, since teams broadcast on the Fox Sports family of networks now have the shot counter next to the score on every broadcast.

If a goal is scored on a rebound, some buildings count the initial shot that was saved, while some arena's count only the shot where the goal was scored. Thus the goalie not getting credited with a save on the first shot, in which he actually did save.

And I think the buildings that really overcount shots will count things like dump ins or a shot from center ice as a shot on goal, whereas most buildings aren't counting those as a shot on goal, unless the shooter somehow scores on it. Some of those buildings might also count when a goalie sticks aside a puck that just rolls through the crease or even when a goalie covers up a loose puck in front of the net for a whistle, despite it not really being a shot on goal.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Shouldn’t a “shot” be any puck that is directed toward the net that would have otherwise gone in if the goalie was not there to stop it, regardless of how it was directed there or from where on the ice? That would seem like the logical thing.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Well, Blackwood numbers were worst than Cory's last night.
We won't find out until he actually plays on a good team.

AHL stints don't mean much. AHL is actually more physical and faster than NHL, just not as skilled.
His stats at AHL may not show the real picture. I think someone will give him a backup offer eventually.

I'm sorry what?

 

[awegrzyn]

I'm sorry what?

Go to a game and watch.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Go to a game and watch.

I watch plenty, thanks.

The fact that you actually believe that is kind of scary to be honest. Yikes.

 

[dzubrus8]

they would have been the same. It would just have cut off the 9/10/11 columns. He still would have compared to these goalies.

I don't usually like to nitpick and correct others on comment boards, but it most certainly would not be the same list. They are still comparable perhaps but they're not the best comparisons. I used wayback machine (archive.org) to pull 2016 comps from HockeyRef

Dubnyk, Varly, Bobs, and Crawford are his top comparables in modern NHL. For the record I thought Schneider was top-5 back then and yet not that valuable to the team but still think he could be a .900+ goalie. All that said, I understand them sending him down to Bingo

 

[Azathoth]

I don't follow baseball that much these days, but a lot of the arguments here remind me an awful lot of the Felix Hernandez vs Price/Sabathia Cy young voting in 2010, where Hernandez won the award with a 13-12 record on bad team (but with much better stats) compared to Price and Sabathia with 19 and 21 wins respectively.

 

[217 Forever]

I don't follow baseball that much these days, but a lot of the arguments here remind me an awful lot of the Felix Hernandez vs Price/Sabathia Cy young voting in 2010, where Hernandez won the award with a 13-12 record on bad team (but with much better stats) compared to Price and Sabathia with 19 and 21 wins respectively.

I was told that great players on bad teams don't get league-wide recognition or awards so you shouldn't use this as a comparative....

 

[njdevil26]

I don't think I ever turned off an in progress Devil's game before last night.

What this organization has become is a shame

Same.

I've skipped some games... Like later in the season last year... but if I have sat down to watch a game I don't know that in my entire life I've turned it off early. I did against Boston.

The pathetic thing is our beat writers and some others were flashing stats like the team played well. They didn't. There are some instances where honestly the eye test is better than advanced stats. The majority of that game, our guys couldn't even pass to open teammates.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't follow baseball that much these days, but a lot of the arguments here remind me an awful lot of the Felix Hernandez vs Price/Sabathia Cy young voting in 2010, where Hernandez won the award with a 13-12 record on bad team (but with much better stats) compared to Price and Sabathia with 19 and 21 wins respectively.

Just saw back to back Cy Youngs for Degrom in the National League where he had similar results. 21 wins total I think.

 

[Lil Bert]

Coming from a Wings fan who watches the Devils for the Jack Hughes experience, it looks like you guys need to waive Subban. I've only caught maybe five Devils games this season but was just wondering your thoughts. He's looked atrocious defensively and like an actor everywhere else on the ice. Whats the vibe on Subban?