Kurt Cobain
Registered User
- Mar 30, 2004
- 5,947
- 258
This is gonna be a long one. A very babbling and filled with mistakes cause I work 9-530 at night and have not slept yet. But too bad. It's also not just meant for you but for anyone who think Severson has played good hockey this year.
Yes we'll never agree if you have watched all these games and have come to the conclusion he's been our best defensman and +/- is going no where. +/- means something when one player a has much worse or better stat in that field than his teammates. If you really think about it isn't +/- just an analytic that just goes straight to the heart of the matter, cause being on the ice for more goals for than against seems kinda important. Having more goals than the other team is how you win. But yeah it means nothing that Scott Stevens was never a minus it didn't happen cause he was good defensivly he got lucky his career or Larry Robinson's career +/- had nothing to do with his actual ability at defense or teaching it, I guess he got lucky. Cause as one poster told me Severson vastly worse +/- is just because of bad bounces. A season of bad bounces.
All stats and analytics must be viewed and judged based on the situation at hand. Not everyone on the caps are good defensivly cause they have high +/- they're just a scoring machine, with a great defense and amazing goalie. The problem is that how you're viewing it. Idk exactly what their +/- is individually but if there's a guys who's 150% better than everyone else bet my life he's a solid two way hockey player.
It's not going anywhere and if you think teams don't look at a players plus minus, especially defensman and compare it to the rest of their teammates when it comes to trades or signings. It's kinda good he's been so terrible this year cause now he won't be able to demand as much money, he'll come much cheaper. But you think he's our best defensman? Should we throw him an 8 year $50 million dollar contract cause you have 15 analytics that prove he's "not that bad". I'd love to see his agent use that print out a 1000 analytics cause theres almost an unlimited amount if you use your imagination, and their will be many more. Seriously don't have a big problem with analytics, just a problem I have a problem with them defending a lie and I have serious problem with them being regarded higher than watching the game, which is for people who never played or haven't watched the game for 30 years.
Look he sucks defensively and if you can't see that idk what to say, I mean do his so his so called great analytics have nothing to do with playing with Andy Greene one of the smartest defensman in the league? A third of analytics are useful but only after watching a player, a third mean nothing to me without more information and the other third are crap. I also truly believe this stuff matters more to fans than the coaches and GMs of any team, we have to much time on our hands and they got a hockey team to run. To them I believe it's still a curiosity still and lack a long enough trial run to mean anything. They've forgot more about hockey than than some of us will ever known. Washington isn't good cause they have good analytics they're just stacked, you can't not watch them play and not see what makes them so good. You don't need need to look at their analytics. This league did a pretty good job of figuring out who the best players were before analytics and this isn't baseball. It's a free flowing sport if analytics end up being useful in all sports, for hockey it will mean the least the sports is to chaotic. Baseball and football are where it makes the most sense.
Also, you think Santini and Merrill playing it safe in the safe in the defensive zone is skill, no it's their job. Every defensman is supposed to play it safe, it's why you don't go up the middle, it's why you don't make blind passes, pass it across the goalie and it's why you bank it off the boards to get it out when hemmed in. That's hockey 101 and yeah some are better than others and those two players are much more than playing it safe they're good hockey players, who have outplayed Severson limited games or not this year.
So you couldn't have played hockey beyond house league. Which I dont judge knowledge on but when analytics is your argument instead of what's right in your face and if you can't see his faults defensively, I mean come and you actually called him the best we got, if you said he not that bad and 2nd best I could of ignored it, those 27 points don't make up for the rest. God help us all if he was our best defensman we'd have a worse record than Colorado. He not passing the puck to the other team or getting dangled leading to the goal, it's stuff that's not obvious, which I'll list below as the reasons he'll never be 1st pairing defenman. I'm have to say that, he's been the biggest disappointment this season player wise, worse than Schneider cause he has guys like Severson and Moore playing in front of him, along with forwards who cant play in their zone. We allowed 37 shots on Schneider against Colorado.
I could never understand how we got him late in the 2nd round, with his size, passing ability and skating ability until about January of this season. He got heart but just enough, doesn't use his size, hockey sense but nothin special and I think I might be able to shoott harder seriously his wrist shot and slap shot are beyond bad, they're a joke. That wrist shot he took to end the game when he had room to take a slap shot was a great way to end the game. Wrist shots stop getting through from the line after the 2005 lockout.
Karlsson, Burns and Leetch guy who play or played 27+ min a night, made turnovers in the offensive zone, they came from being too creative for their own teammate or **** happens, no ones perfect. They were also ppg players who never hurt their team like he has. I also never brought up turnovers this time I did once to defend made up ******** from people made up turnovers commited by Lovejoy just because he's not part of the future. His defensive aspects I have a problem with are his positioning and his agressiveness. He looks so easy to play against and he can't make up for it with smart stick work like Greene or Merrill.
Also, didn't say he he was our worst defensman I said worst at actual defense, besides Moore cause he actually never learned to play it safe in his own zone. Yes Lovejoy is better defensively because some of you don't get a good defensive defensman is one you don't notice, about 35% of you ***** about him cause he's not part of the future and we suck and they need a punching bag, so screw him or the coach. Yeah I know someone gonna bring up how he's always hemmed in(which is so exaggerated this whole team gets hemmed in) yet what's the situation, who's out there for the other team or who's he paired with and when has he ever cost us a game? By penalty or turnover?
Seversons's done it twice in the last month, he took the penalty in overtime the other night which was stupid and he screws up coverage against Calgary in OT, wasn't mentioned for some reason. I just hate players who get blamed unfairly and players who get too much credit unfairly, some idiots think I believe Lovejoy is a great defensman. No he's not, he's a 3rd pairing defensman at best, but I'm not gonna gonna let our own fans lie about someone, or pick on a player behind I'm callin you out. Literally lies I've seen posts saying wtf Lovejoy while reloading GDT and gone back and rewind and never figured out what happened, then at the same time look away when someone who's young and important now and in the future is getting undeserved credit. Both are pathetic. But blaming a third pairing defensman for our issues is..a joke or as I've said before someone who kicks their dog when they get home after a rough day at work.
Severson at best he's #4 overall this year; Greene, Santini, Merrill and even Quincy was better when he was here disagree all you want we screwed up not giving Quincy more PP time, only defensman with a one timer that could go in. As for Seversons his general lack of awareness without the puck in the defensive zone, the fact he's a -30 while being paired with one of the smartest d men in the league, the fact he's easy to play against and is over matched against the the other teams best players is why he's not first pairing defensman and has so far to go I don't ever see it happening.
I think at best potential wise he's a #3 who plays the PP and can put up 45 points, but right now they need to limit his minutes and he should not be out there when holding a one goal lead in the final 3 minutes. He has a long way to go defensivly and I don't think he'll ever be a number 1 pair defenman because on top of the defense when is the last time he dictated a play as you said? Was it during the first 20 games of his career which I think was just teams not knowing him and it worked well for a short time. Did he do it in a shift against Dallas back in November? He's not dictating anything and just going deep in the offensive zone is not dictating play, especially when he doesn't have the puck. Or even when he has the puck and does nothing with it, I just didn't realize how little hockey sense he had. His passing is great but his shot which ruins his ability run a PP. If I were him I'd hire a defensive coach specialist and watch every game he played this year and physically work on a slapshot.
Also I never said Merrill was 1st pairing defensman he'd have to make and Andy Greene like transformation becuase style wise he's very similar to a young Andy Greene, but he's bigger and his shots better which isn't saying much. He just needs to get more agressive just like Andy did and not get injured so his confidence isn't up and down. I think he'll be paired with Severson next season he similar style wise and Damon won't have to play against the best of the opposition.
You're wrong about Santini though so is most of the fanbase. This kid has it and if free agent Andy Greene a guy many on this site were annoyed when he got a (contract extension), I hate how this site deleted everything can be legit first pairing defensman so can Santini, who's got a better pedigree anyway. In my opinion when Greene gets back Santini would have been the 1st pairing with him and still might, but the Merrill / Santini pairing has looked well. He's already better defensively by a massive margin and as good of a passer than Severson. This kid has much better technical skills than people realize and if Severson who got every opportunity handed to him and still might not even score 30 points, regardless of this team's inability to score.
Santini suffered from the same thing Ryan McDonagh did at first, being so good at the defensive side of the game he never got a chance to be offensive, but he was first pairing his final year in college and won defensive defenman of the year in hockey east. Not saying he's the next, McDonagh however McDonagh never scored as many points as Santini in college and it took him more games
. However they should start giving Santini PP time, Ryan didn't learn till he got a chance, Severson and his 13 points in the last 45 games, with maybe 5 being PP points ain't worth it. Playing Greene as PP QB once they saw the obvious in Seversons inability to run a PP properly just interferes with the young guys. Let Merrill and Santini get a shot.Also, I mean this and we can save this thread. If we don't sign Shattenkirk and Santini isn't the 1st pairing RHD by halfway next season, I'll delete my account and never come back. However, if they keep Severson up cause they like Santini and Merrill too much and Santini gets as many mins I'm not leaving, if Damon gets one minute more I'm out forever. I'm confident I'll be right I think he's already passed him in the eyes of the organization and would be paired with Greene when he gets back like I said, but the Merrill -Santini pair has looked good. I'm more than confident in my ability to judge defensman at this point they're easier as the NHL level than forwards. A forward can score a few goals and be overrated quickly like DSP. Santini has it thought trains the right way, video junkie, does all the little things, better by a country mile defensivly than Severson, is physical, tough to play against, passes as good yes as good, more heart, doesn't panic, better hockey sense, if he has a worse shot than Severson it can be improved, and let's not forget he was more highly touted than Severson ever was before the NHL.
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