Confirmed with Link: Devils trade 2nd and 4th rounders for Mirco Mueller and 5th rounder

[Edmonton East]

Given Mueller is so young, there's not a lot of data.

That said, I took every game he's played so far, both regular season & playoffs, and rebased it based on an 82 game season:


Now I ask you, OBJECTIVELY, is this really "poor" or "bust" stats for a 20 to 21 year old defenseman getting his feet wet in a professional career, and only with about 3 years experience on a smaller North American rink to boot?

I defy anyone to say the answer is, "yes".

Using AHL stats to trend out NHL production 1 for 1? That's definitely what your post is inferring.

Which is insane.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Using AHL stats to trend out NHL production 1 for 1? That's definitely what your post is inferring.

Which is insane.

That's not what I'm inferring.

Actually, I reread my post...... and I didnt misword it, so I dont even understand how one could "infer" that that's what I was inferring.

How and why would you even make that assumption?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Using AHL stats to trend out NHL production 1 for 1?

Now, hope about you answer the actual qusetion you should be "inferring" from the post.


Are those "poor" AHL stats based on an 82 game season, for a young 20/21 year old defenseman?

 

[Edmonton East]

That's not what I'm inferring.

Actually, I reread my post...... and I didnt misword it, so I dont even understand how one could "infer" that that's what I was inferring.

How and why would you even make that assumption?

Because you are presenting those meaningless stats as backing he isn't a bust. Based on his AHL "production."

 

[Nubmer6]

Using AHL stats to trend out NHL production 1 for 1? That's definitely what your post is inferring.

I think he's debating the "AHL stats were bad" argument, made by the Cordell graphic.

I agree, doesn't look that bad, but again, that GF% in the first graphic concerns me. Not sure how the stats could tell that much of a difference.

 

[Edmonton East]

Now, hope about you answer the actual qusetion you should be "inferring" from the post.


Are those "poor" AHL stats based on an 82 game season, for a young 20/21 year old defenseman?

I have no freakin idea and that's the point. I don't get why you posted it. It means nothing. (EDIT: Ah, I guess you were responding to the Cordell tweet mainly. Gotcha)

The only way that info could arrive at the point you were making (not a bust yet based on the data), is if it were NHL games...

You didn't label. I guarantee someone sees that and assumes NHL production. That's all.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Now, hope about you answer the actual qusetion you should be "inferring" from the post.


Are those "poor" AHL stats based on an 82 game season, for a young 20/21 year old defenseman?

It's for defenseman with 50+ games played in the season, so a considerable sample size. The actual proration of the numbers is clearly marked in the header of each column.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Buffalo could have conceivably offered their 2nd 2 (54), which would have meant we needed to give up 49 to top that.

It did cross my mind that there may have been a mini-bidding war for Mueller.

 

[OmNomNom]

I think he's debating the "AHL stats were bad" argument, made by the Cordell graphic.

I agree, doesn't look that bad, but again, that GF% in the first graphic concerns me. Not sure how the stats could tell that much of a difference.

i wish we could find out his zone start %ages and corsi. i mean it def is bad that the SJ barracuda were a very good team this year, but i'm still curious what his assignments were

 

[blink]

This thread is so laughable. Love seeing people freak out over losing a 2nd round pick over this. Welcome to HFboards.

Part of being a successful GM and management team is sometimes taking a risk. While I would hardly call this a huge risk, Mueller is a guy who Shero obviously felt they could take a chance on. Lots of NHL players have been traded to other cities and developed a successful NHL career.

The guy is 22, relax a bit and let's see how he looks in camp and in his first season with us.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

And people are still complaining about a middle to late 2nd round draft pick in a weak draft like it's a first round pick.

 

[Billdo]

885 posts about this trade and not a peep from Hynes or Shero. That in itself is weird.

 

[Emperoreddy]

885 posts about this trade and not a peep from Hynes or Shero. That in itself is weird.

Doubt we get Shero's take until draft day. Imagine he is busy right now

 

[Oneiro]

If you've ever had a job where you develop people in any way - training, teaching, etc. - you often see things that aren't obvious in any of the results someone has produced thus far. Potential where others see a fixed trajectory.

I'm sure Castron and probably more than a few scouts had a say re: Mueller. That's why I'm more intrigued than baffled. Giving up a 2nd isn't exactly a huge indicator of belief in a player, but it's something.

 

[devilsblood]

Given Mueller is so young, there's not a lot of data.

That said, I took every game he's played so far, both regular season & playoffs, and rebased it based on an 82 game season:


Now I ask you, OBJECTIVELY, is this really "poor" or "bust" stats for a 20 to 21 year old defenseman getting his feet wet in a professional career, and only with about 3 years experience on a smaller North American rink to boot?

I defy anyone to say the answer is, "yes".

Yes those are pretty poor AHL #'s for a 1st round pick.

Hope there is untapped potential.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Not sure if posted earlier, but not very encouraging.

All these numbers tell me is that he's bad at producing points at even strength.

These stats give no insight into possession, zone starts, defensive abilities, special teams, usage, or anything other than pure point production.

 

[Emperoreddy]

All these numbers tell me is that he's bad at producing points at even strength.

These stats give no insight into possession, zone starts, defensive abilities, special teams, usage, or anything other than pure point production.

Something we knew. He is coming in a stay at home type

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yes those are pretty poor AHL #'s for a 1st round pick.

Do you know that he's a defenseman?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Do you know that he's a defenseman?

Adam Larsson is pretty bad offensively at the NHL level and even he put up 19 points in 33 games in the AHL as a 20 year old.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

If you've ever had a job where you develop people in any way - training, teaching, etc. - you often see things that aren't obvious in any of the results someone has produced thus far. Potential where others see a fixed trajectory.

I'm sure Castron and probably more than a few scouts had a say re: Mueller. That's why I'm more intrigued than baffled. Giving up a 2nd isn't exactly a huge indicator of belief in a player, but it's something.

This is my stance, as well. Mueller's 22, so the knowledge and familiarity our scouts have of/with him is still pretty fresh.

That, paired with the new knowledge that other organizations were looking at Mueller, indicates to me that there's something there.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Hynes on Mueller: http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2017/06/what_devils_see_in_new_defenseman_mirco_mueller.html

 

[Cheddabombs]

"Mirco is adding another piece to what we're trying to build here," Devils coach John Hynes said. "He's a young player, he can play with pace. He's a very good skater. He's got size, which is something we need on the back end. He makes a good first pass. He allows you to get out of your own zone because he can break out, he can end plays defensively, get possession, make the pass to be able to transition yourself out of defensive situations."

Hynes on Mueller.

lol beat to the punch

 

[Blender]

If he actually works out with all that this trade will be a win. Our transition game was horrendous last season and it needs to be better if we have any hope of ever fighting for a playoff spot.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Mirco....allows you to get out of your own zone because he can break out,...... make the pass to be able to transition yourself out of defensive situations."

Well that would certainly be refreshing. I've forgotten what that was like.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Well, we know where Hynes stands on Mirco.