Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) ‎2015 offseason VIII

[Emperoreddy]

I think it's a fools errand to try and predict this roster compared to the rest of the league when we don't know what the new coach is bringing and we don't know the opening night roster.

All we know is Cory will be Cory and we have w young talented defense that won't have a Sal or Frasier weighting it down.

I think any other predictions are pretty blind as we really don't know that much.

 

[RSeen]

I think it's a fools errand to try and predict this roster compared to the rest of the league when we don't know what the new coach is bringing and we don't know the opening night roster.

All we know is Cory will be Cory and we have w young talented defense that won't have a Sal or Frasier weighting it down.

I think any other predictions are pretty blind as we really don't know that much.

It isn't like Sal or Fraser were holding us back last season. Sal didn't even play and Fraser played a small role. We have a pretty good idea who will be on the team and then there will be a group of young players fighting for a roster spot. Based on this roster, I don't see how a prediction of this team being bottom 5 or 3 is unreasonable. It is unquestionably one of the worst in the league, and majority of people think so.

 

[Eric Sachs]

It's an ugly Excel spreadsheet to figure this out, but here is the probability of where you'd be picking post-lottery if you finish last:

1st: 20%
2nd: 17.4858%
3rd: 15.1312%
4th: 47.383%

I might be misguided enough to try to figure out the rest later.

The allocation of odds for the 1st Lottery draw will be the same as outlined above for the 2015 NHL Draft Lottery. The odds for the remaining teams will increase on a proportionate basis for the 2nd Lottery draw, based on which Club wins the 1st Lottery draw, and again for the 3rd Lottery draw, based on which Club wins the 2nd Lottery draw.

I wonder how you are interpreting "on a proportionate basis" from the press release above. If the team picking 1st overall wins the 1st lottery, how are you dividing their 20%? The wording leads me to believe that teams will get a cut of that 20% based on their initial lottery odds (i.e. the worse you finished, the more your odds go up) but it's unclear.

Certainly is a nasty excel sheet though.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It isn't like Sal or Fraser were holding us back last season. Sal didn't even play and Fraser played a small role. We have a pretty good idea who will be on the team and then there will be a group of young players fighting for a roster spot. Based on this roster, I don't see how a prediction of this team being bottom 5 or 3 is unreasonable. It is unquestionably one of the worst in the league, and majority of people think so.

Sal was absolutely holding us back when he played

look at the teams' PK percentage when he played. that wasnt a anomaly.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Sal was absolutely holding us back when he played

look at the teams' PK percentage when he played. that wasnt a anomaly.

Then Andy Greene was holding them back too because more goals were scored on his side than Salvador's side while they were paired together.

But I know the talking point well - Salvador's fault regardless.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Then Andy Greene was holding them back too because more goals were scored on his side than Salvador's side while they were paired together.

But I know the talking point well - Salvador's fault regardless.

so then once Sal went out of the lineup, Greene magically just stopped sucking at that very instant? is that your argument?

 

[RSeen]

Sal was absolutely holding us back when he played

look at the teams' PK percentage when he played. that wasnt a anomaly.

He played 15 games last season...

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He played 15 games last season...

and how does that change anything that I just posted, exactly?

do you remember how bad our PK was while Sal was in the lineup?

at one point to start the season, Sal was on for about 80% of the goals against over a few weeks

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Fifteen games at the start of the year with a terrible PK owing to Sal is an impact. And I thought Fraser played quite a bit in the games he did play. I don't think their absence will make this team world beaters, but Sal and Fraser had a negative impact when they were in the lineup. I think that their absence is to however limited a degree addition by subtraction.

 

[Triumph]

ILWT looked at the penalty kill pretty extensively and concluded that Salvador was not good.

Anyway, the larger point is correct that while he was terrible, he still didn't have a huge impact on the season. And it's not like Eric Gelinas is any better than Salvador at even strength.

The biggest thing I think people miss about last year is that while the offense was horrible, a lot of the players beat expectations. Tootoo, Bernier, Gomez, even Cammalleri - these players did better than you would expect. Zajac had a down year, but it's not like you can realistically expect a 'bounceback' year from anyone else on the team. It's going to be a dismal offense.

 

[Emperoreddy]

so then once Sal went out of the lineup, Greene magically just stopped sucking at that very instant? is that your argument?

Yes actually because when Sal got hurt they put Greene back on his natural side.

 

[MadDevil]

The entire PK was garbage to start the season. Sal, Greene, the forwards, Cory, they were all terrible. Everybody just stood around watching the puck.

 

[R8Devs]

And according to Chere:

"During the 1999-2000 season winger Krzystopf Oliwa suffered a left knee injury. When he disputed the diagnosis from Fisher, Oliwa sought an outside second opinion and wound up having surgery in April of 2000 on a torn ALC, partially torn MCL and cartilage damage.

Oliwa was barred from the team during the 2000 playoffs and had to buy his own plane ticket to Dallas to celebrate the Stanley Cup championship with his teammates. Oliwa believes the Devils traded him on June 12, 2000, because he got an outside medical opinion.

Mike Peluso, the left winger on the Devils' 1995 Stanley Cup championship team, also criticized Fisher and Lamoriello for allowing him to play after severe head injuries.

"It's how they threw me out onto the ice. I'd had a grand mal seizure and Dr. Fisher handled the situation and said I was good to go," Peluso told NJ Advance Media about a serious incident in 1993. "I heard (trainer) Teddy Schuch say, 'I don't think he's ready,' but Teddy was overruled by Dr. Fisher."


yikes

 

[Eric Sachs]

pretty sure we went with a Salvador-Zidlicky top PK pairing for our first game or two

because deboer

 

[Bleedred]

so then once Sal went out of the lineup, Greene magically just stopped sucking at that very instant? is that your argument?

If I'm not mistaken (thanks once again Foligno!) Greene was switched back to the other side after Salvador was injured. It took the Salvador injury just for that tool to put Greene back where he should have been all along.

At the same time though, Salvador was not good when he was in the lineup last season. In fact, he's been pretty brutal for the last 2 or 3 seasons. I'd say ever since the last lockout ended. Or at least by the 13-14 season he was pretty awful. He was fairly serviceable in 12-13, though not good. He was also being played way too many minutes, more than any season in his career aside from the 11-12 season. More than any season in his prime at least. Not sure if that was a Stevens or DeBoer thing, but he was being way overused.

I remember Salvador doing a lot of horrendous things the last we saw him, though I don't blame him for the PK gaffes as much as Greene playing on the wrong side. It's like the same thing was happening EVERY time we allowed a PK goal for the first 5 or 6 weeks of the season. Greene would get caught because he wasn't used to playing that side. I'm sure Salvador caused a couple of those PK goals though, he also did quite a few mind numbingly horrific things at even strength. He was even benched for the duration of a game after one of the worst turnovers we might have seen all season, I think Cory made the save and Salvador was benched for the rest of the game, by Pete DeBoer of all coaches. It was in the first half of the 3rd period and we didn't see him for the rest of the game, or he might have played a shift.

I think it might have been that game we won our first shootout (in a couple years) against Winnipeg last season. I think Pete claimed that he was benched because we needed a goal because we were tied or down in the game.

 

[Bleedred]

pretty sure we went with a Salvador-Zidlicky top PK pairing for our first game or two

because deboer

Foligno too.

Foligno's refusal to put Greene back to where he belonged (before the Salvador injury) was some of the most asinine and just plain insane coaching decisions I've ever seen made. It was the definition of insanity.

I wish in life that we had an option of seeing an ''Alternate ending'' where Salvador is not injured in mid November. I wanna see exactly how long it would have taken for Greene to be switched back. Would it have lasted until Christmas time? It never seemed to go away. The problem kept happening and we were giving up goals because of the same exact reason almost every time we gave up a goal. It wasn't like the 2012 playoffs where we always seemed to just find a way to not be able to kill a penalty. It was the same cause almost every single time early last season

 

[Emperoreddy]

If I'm not mistaken (thanks once again Foligno!) Greene was switched back to the other side after Salvador was injured. It took the Salvador injury just for that tool to put Greene back where he should have been all along.

At the same time though, Salvador was not good when he was in the lineup last season. In fact, he's been pretty brutal for the last 2 or 3 seasons. I'd say ever since the last lockout ended. Or at least by the 13-14 season he was pretty awful. He was fairly serviceable in 12-13, though not good. He was also being played way too many minutes, more than any season in his career aside from the 11-12 season. More than any season in his prime at least. Not sure if that was a Stevens or DeBoer thing, but he was being way overused.

I remember Salvador doing a lot of horrendous things the last we saw him, though I don't blame him for the PK gaffes as much as Greene playing on the wrong side. It's like the same thing was happening EVERY time we allowed a PK goal for the first 5 or 6 weeks of the season. Greene would get caught because he wasn't used to playing that side. I'm sure Salvador caused a couple of those PK goals though, he also did quite a few mind numbingly horrific things at even strength. He was even benched for the duration of a game after one of the worst turnovers we might have seen all season, I think Cory made the save and Salvador was benched for the rest of the game, by Pete DeBoer of all coaches. It was in the first half of the 3rd period and we didn't see him for the rest of the game, or he might have played a shift.

I think it might have been that game we won our first shootout (in a couple years) against Winnipeg last season. I think Pete claimed that he was benched because we needed a goal because we were tied or down in the game.

It's the exact time Greene was switched and I think it was just because they wanted Lars on that side.

Foligno was a moron with the PK early on because he refused to make the adjustments that would of fixed it until injuries and the obviously better results forced his hand.

 

[Devils1029]

For the lottery, I'd just image that when a team is selected, regardless of if it's for picks 1 or 2, they simply cannot be picked again and if they are, another selection is made. By removing this team from the potentials, their percentage is essentially being taken out of the equation (and thus shared equally by the remaining teams).

So, last overall has a 20% chance by virtue of having 20% of the potential number combinations assigned - if they don't get 1st overall, they still have 20% of the numbers in the pool but since the team getting 1st overall can't be selected again, their assigned numbers are then made ineligible.

They aren't going to reassign new numbers for each of the three picks especially if teams percentages vary for picks 2 and 3 depending upon which team is selected....

 

[Edmonton East]

"During the 1999-2000 season winger Krzystopf Oliwa suffered a left knee injury. When he disputed the diagnosis from Fisher, Oliwa sought an outside second opinion and wound up having surgery in April of 2000 on a torn ALC, partially torn MCL and cartilage damage.

Oliwa was barred from the team during the 2000 playoffs and had to buy his own plane ticket to Dallas to celebrate the Stanley Cup championship with his teammates. Oliwa believes the Devils traded him on June 12, 2000, because he got an outside medical opinion.

Mike Peluso, the left winger on the Devils' 1995 Stanley Cup championship team, also criticized Fisher and Lamoriello for allowing him to play after severe head injuries.

"It's how they threw me out onto the ice. I'd had a grand mal seizure and Dr. Fisher handled the situation and said I was good to go," Peluso told NJ Advance Media about a serious incident in 1993. "I heard (trainer) Teddy Schuch say, 'I don't think he's ready,' but Teddy was overruled by Dr. Fisher."


yikes

...I don't understand how anyone can "misdiagnose" a torn ACL. Any type of knee injury where there is even a slight possibility of ACL/MCL damage, an MRI is ALWAYS suggested. I don't understand how he could have had an MRI and been told he was okay. The partially torn MCL part is meaningless though without knowing the degree of the tear.

 

[Japam]

"During the 1999-2000 season winger Krzystopf Oliwa suffered a left knee injury. When he disputed the diagnosis from Fisher, Oliwa sought an outside second opinion and wound up having surgery in April of 2000 on a torn ALC, partially torn MCL and cartilage damage.

Oliwa was barred from the team during the 2000 playoffs and had to buy his own plane ticket to Dallas to celebrate the Stanley Cup championship with his teammates. Oliwa believes the Devils traded him on June 12, 2000, because he got an outside medical opinion.

Mike Peluso, the left winger on the Devils' 1995 Stanley Cup championship team, also criticized Fisher and Lamoriello for allowing him to play after severe head injuries.

"It's how they threw me out onto the ice. I'd had a grand mal seizure and Dr. Fisher handled the situation and said I was good to go," Peluso told NJ Advance Media about a serious incident in 1993. "I heard (trainer) Teddy Schuch say, 'I don't think he's ready,' but Teddy was overruled by Dr. Fisher."


yikes

That's pretty disturbing to read. Also makes me realize the board's jokes about the med staff wasn't far off.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

He's been the Dr. since what 1982 and he missed a few diagnosis along the way. The Peluso thing is different, teams no more than they use to. Growing up, coaches use to tell kids playing hockey/soccer that they got their "Bell Rung".

That's hardly an indictement of his body of work here re: Oliwa or even point to the team being a joke medically.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Who has the highest odds and what are they?

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

http://www.oddsshark.com/nhl/stanley-cup-futures-0

Chicago is a favorite to win it all at the gate. However, I will have to ask someone visiting Vegas to see the lastest lines post Kane.

http://www.lasvegassportsbetting.com/NHL-Hockey-Stanley-Cup-Odds_P3568.html

I have seen Devils between 100 and 66, it will be interesting to see the line tightening. Tampa and Anaheim are top three, I think it's wide opening IMHO..

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Lou is one hardheaded dude. He was even loyal to one of the worse medical staff in hockey. Unreal!

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Lou is one hardheaded dude. He was even loyal to one of the worse medical staff in hockey. Unreal!

I happen to know someone who is related to one of the Dr. I would beg to differ with your statement. Shero is making changes to sink or swim on his own ship with ownership's blessing. But statements like you make are a bit much.

I don't blame anyone for wanting their own staff/people. However, you can't help yourself when it comes to Lou.

 

[billingtons ghost]

and how does that change anything that I just posted, exactly?

do you remember how bad our PK was while Sal was in the lineup?

at one point to start the season, Sal was on for about 80% of the goals against over a few weeks

He played 15 games. There are 82. He could have at max contributed 18.292% of suckage.

Zajac sucked for 74 games. Even Cory and Greene sucked for about the first 15.