Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Lou Bloom]

This team doesn’t need to spend big time assets for a forward. They already have plenty of high end scoring talent, they just need to supplement that talent with solid depth and complimentary players.

 

[Better Call Sal]

i get being against a coach that isn't good but if the shelf life of coaching career is 2 franchises (one is a joke franchise) and 450ish games to prove it or you dont deserve another gig? thats insane but hey each their own standard

i think this board has very limited criteria much like ufa/trade options in the coaching standards. going to be a banger on here when they eventually do hire someone thats for sure lol

Coaching shelf lives in the NHL are not very long, and I am sure there are coaches who rarely get a second crack at an NHL head job let alone a third. The only year Tocchet took a team to the playoffs was in the COVID play-in tournament that occurred in the bubble when they expanded the number of teams. Otherwise, he'd never have sniffed the playoffs in either tenure.

Does John MacLean deserve a second crack at a job? It's a results league, for better or worse. And that's certainly why Torts, Laviolette, DeBoer and others get more kicks at the can. They get results until their shelf life expires.

 

[NJDfan86]

I haven't seen anyone here campaigning for Green.

Thinking that Fitz may stay with him is another thing entirely.

I don't see why we are conflating Fitz not trashing Green and the remaining staff, who he knows will all be looking for jobs next year, as some sort of vote of confidence.

These guys are dead men walking - does throwing additional dirt on their grave so that some fans won't complain make a difference? Has no one here had a job where a door closes through no fault of their own, and the organization they were working for helped them find another job?

 

[Omar Little]

Define Cheap. Henrique is not going to be cheap lol


I would do ALOT of things to get Yanni Gourde here. Absolutely in love with him but I doubt SEA is moving him

It all depends on what Henrique wants in his career. Does he want to win? If so, then I think something like $3m - $3.5m would make sense and Devils should consider it. If he wants to try and secure another bag, then it'll be $4m - $4.5m, which we shouldn't pay.

Another good buy low guy would be Arvidsson

 

[Devils Trap]

It all depends on what Henrique wants in his career. Does he want to win? If so, then I think something like $3m - $3.5m would make sense and Devils should consider it. If he wants to try and secure another bag, then it'll be $4m - $4.5m, which we shouldn't pay.

Another good buy low guy would be Arvidsson

I promise you Henrique's bare minimum will be 4.5 million going up. There is no world he gets 3 million lol

He will get 5+ million on the open market. 4.5 million is the discount

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

it will just make the stanley cup vhs/dvd this year even sweeter!

Will Whoopi Goldberg reprise her role as narrator?

 

[NJDfan86]

Bertuzzi is not a good defensive player and he's not that tough. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

I do not understand the fascination with Bertuzzi around here - the dude is going to get a Clarkson contract and the team that signs him to it will deserve it.

 

[NjDevsRR]

What do you consider the old boys club?

 

[MadDevil]

I chuckled at this part...

“I think we baby our goalies,” Brodeur said. “I see it. I’m part of it. It’s like, my goalie coach will say, ‘He’s played five games the past eight days …’ I’m like, ‘So?’”

 

[Bleedred]

I chuckled at this part...

LeafsDaws fan just posted this and made a thread about it on the main board. The thread is already being watered down with arguments about whether Brodeur is the GOAT or not. He certainly isn’t when it comes to being a management person.

Not really liking that quote. Great timing for it because I was mentioning last night I said the goalie decisions have been weird for years now. And that it was weird they didn’t let Kahkonen start after getting a shutout. And now I wonder if Marty is the puppet master with some of these things……

It sounds like Rogalski isn’t exactly behind playing the shit out of the goalies. That quote doesn’t necessarily mean that this is really a problem, but putting everything together and adding it up…….It’s looking suspect.

We have a problem with running the same goalie out there too much. Daws in 2022 and this year after Vitek got hurt. Vitek this year was another case of it.

Weird things like Schmid starting two nights in a row (second time he had to because Vitek was sick and I think he was a late scratch because of it) and Daws got two nights in a row not even two months ago.

Blackwood starting multiple days in a row back in 20-21 and then them playing the shit out of him before they shut him down for a couple of months in 21-22. And all the “we’re giving him the ball” stuff. Maybe these weren’t really Ruff or at least not just him…..

 

[JrFischer54]

Coaching shelf lives in the NHL are not very long, and I am sure there are coaches who rarely get a second crack at an NHL head job let alone a third. The only year Tocchet took a team to the playoffs was in the COVID play-in tournament that occurred in the bubble when they expanded the number of teams. Otherwise, he'd never have sniffed the playoffs in either tenure.

Does John MacLean deserve a second crack at a job? It's a results league, for better or worse. And that's certainly why Torts, Laviolette, DeBoer and others get more kicks at the can. They get results until their shelf life expires.

not right after he got canned here he didn't. if hes been a steady asst coach in the meantime i wouldn't bash a team for hiring him and giving him a short leash. would i hire him? no but i'm biased because I like old "retread" good old boy hockey coaches for my team.

I chuckled at this part...

i agree with marty. goalies are quickly becoming starting pitchers in baseball. if you can have forwards/d go out there 20+ min a night getting hit blocking shots skating miles i really dont think its much to ask for goalies to play 60-65 games or 10 in a row.

 

[JrFischer54]

Will Whoopi Goldberg reprise her role as narrator?

man whos a 2024 version of whoopi at that time?


btw do teams even release dvds anymore?

 

[njdevils1982]

LeafsDaws fan just posted this and made a thread about it on the main board. The thread is already being watered down with arguments about whether Brodeur is the GOAT or not. He certainly isn’t when it comes to being a management person.

Not really liking that quote. Great timing for it because I was mentioning last night I said the goalie decisions have been weird for years now. And that it was weird they didn’t let Kahkonen start after getting a shutout. And now I wonder if Marty is the puppet master with some of these things……

It sounds like Rogalski isn’t exactly behind playing the shit out of the goalies. That quote doesn’t necessarily mean that this is really a problem, but putting everything together and adding it up…….It’s looking suspect.

We have a problem with running the same goalie out there too much. Daws in 2022 and this year after Vitek got hurt. Vitek this year was another case of it.

Weird things like Schmid starting two nights in a row (second time he had to because Vitek was sick and I think he was a late scratch because of it) and Daws got two nights in a row not even two months ago.

Blackwood starting multiple days in a row back in 20-21 and then them playing the shit out of him before they shut him down for a couple of months in 21-22. And all the “we’re giving him the ball” stuff. Maybe these weren’t really Ruff or at least not just him…..

he doesn't seem like a bad poster ...i just remember him posting here how were gonna like andreas after he was traded here.

we all know what happened

but like i said, seems like a decent poster that doesn't have 'an agenda'

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[NJDevs26]

LeafsDaws fan just posted this and made a thread about it on the main board. The thread is already being watered down with arguments about whether Brodeur is the GOAT or not. He certainly isn’t when it comes to being a management person.

Not really liking that quote. Great timing for it because I was mentioning last night I said the goalie decisions have been weird for years now. And that it was weird they didn’t let Kahkonen start after getting a shutout. And now I wonder if Marty is the puppet master with some of these things……

It sounds like Rogalski isn’t exactly behind playing the shit out of the goalies. That quote doesn’t necessarily mean that this is really a problem, but putting everything together and adding it up…….It’s looking suspect.

We have a problem with running the same goalie out there too much. Daws in 2022 and this year after Vitek got hurt. Vitek this year was another case of it.

Weird things like Schmid starting two nights in a row (second time he had to because Vitek was sick and I think he was a late scratch because of it) and Daws got two nights in a row not even two months ago.

Blackwood starting multiple days in a row back in 20-21 and then them playing the shit out of him before they shut him down for a couple of months in 21-22. And all the “we’re giving him the ball” stuff. Maybe these weren’t really Ruff or at least not just him…..

It has occurred to me more than once this year that 'why are we trying to overplay these guys as if they're Marty?', but I never really made the leap of Marty himself being the puppet master for it. Maybe cause I don't want to believe he's also behind the shitty goalie acquisition choices as well, though I do think he's behind the shitty goalie coach choices

Plus tbh I think any head coach who's jockeying to keep his job when the team's behind the eight-ball is gonna run someone into the ground and wouldn't need much convincing from Marty either way.

 

[Billdo]

LeafsDaws fan just posted this and made a thread about it on the main board. The thread is already being watered down with arguments about whether Brodeur is the GOAT or not. He certainly isn’t when it comes to being a management person.

Not really liking that quote. Great timing for it because I was mentioning last night I said the goalie decisions have been weird for years now. And that it was weird they didn’t let Kahkonen start after getting a shutout. And now I wonder if Marty is the puppet master with some of these things……

It sounds like Rogalski isn’t exactly behind playing the shit out of the goalies. That quote doesn’t necessarily mean that this is really a problem, but putting everything together and adding it up…….It’s looking suspect.

We have a problem with running the same goalie out there too much. Daws in 2022 and this year after Vitek got hurt. Vitek this year was another case of it.

Weird things like Schmid starting two nights in a row (second time he had to because Vitek was sick and I think he was a late scratch because of it) and Daws got two nights in a row not even two months ago.

Blackwood starting multiple days in a row back in 20-21 and then them playing the shit out of him before they shut him down for a couple of months in 21-22. And all the “we’re giving him the ball” stuff. Maybe these weren’t really Ruff or at least not just him…..

What's the cliff notes version of this? I don't have The Athletic anymore since Corey left.

 

[Bleedred]

Based on?

Not that it's a big sample, but I do feel this is a bit of a audition for him. Why wouldn't Fitz view it as that?

I don't think he's coming back and I don't think he ever was. Fitz heavily implied it when he was acquired.

And they wouldn't even let him play the next game after he got a shutout, if that tells you anything. They went right back to Allen. I was in favor of letting him get last night's game after the shutout.

I think the only way he was ever coming back was if they made the decision to keep him over Allen and trade Allen's $1.9 somewhere else in the offseason. Since Allen got here they've only even given him 2 games. His first game was before Allen was able to play for immigration reasons.

If they're trying to audition him I feel they would give him more games and give him the next game after a shutout. It feels like he's probably only gonna get 3 of the remaining 9 games. The two back to backs and maybe one other.

Maybe if we can't get anything done with any of the ''Big fish'' goalies and the only option is to trade for Gibson (who isn't even better than Allen at this point and is expensive/3 more years of term remaining) or bring back Kahkonen to platoon with Allen, maybe they bring him back.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think he knows.

But I wouldn't be totally adverse to this being the tandem. Allen we know is in, or at least most likely. And Kahk is a 28 year old who imo was probably having his numbers dragged down playing behind a bad team in SJ. Should also be cheap on the next contract.

Then we have Daws, Schmid, and Poulter in the AHL, which I think is very solid minor league depth.

Finding elite level goal tending is tough, and expensive, and a guy like Markstrom isn't necessarily an elite option, so in lieu of that I like the idea of attacking the problem with numbers.


Based on?

Not that it's a big sample, but I do feel this is a bit of a audition for him. Why wouldn't Fitz view it as that?

When you A) have as poor numbers as Kakkohnen the last two years with no real positive sample size prior other than two meh years as a clear backup and B) the GM basically says he traded for you to get 'flexibility', there's not much of a chance you'll do enough in a five-seven game sample size to change anyone's mind. There is possibly a world where they keep Kahkonnen as backup and trade Allen but they're clearly not going to roll it back with both when Fitz's ass is in the jackpot with his goalie choices next year and he's been trying to go big-game hunting for at least a year.

Even if Kahkonnen would take a two-way deal and go down to Utica why would you want him taking time away from Daws, Poulter and Schmid?

 

[Bleedred]

What's the cliff notes version of this? I don't have The Athletic anymore since Corey left.

I'm not sure. I'm not a subscriber anymore because I didn't wanna pay $8 bucks a month for it instead of the $1 and $2 dollars I was paying the first two years.

Perhaps this is a borderline joke taken out of context. I sure hope it was. I'm sure he was laughing when he said it, but if he really thinks 5 games in 8 nights for a goalie is no big thing.....

he doesn't seem like a bad poster ...i just remember him posting here how were gonna like andreas after he was traded here.

we all know what happened

but like i said, seems like a decent poster that doesn't have 'an agenda'

No, but he is kind of weird about the Daws stuff, suggesting we're wasting him if he's not given an NHL spot out of the gate next year.

If Daws right now is as good as he thinks he really is, then we have at least 3 NHL caliber goalies next year when we pick up somebody else, but to give him a spot on the opening nigh roster? No way. We already did that this year with Schmid after a good season and playoffs, which didn't go over so well for this year.

 

[MasterofGrond]

The Devils tandem is going to be X-Allen, not Allen-X

 

[NJDevs26]

The Devils tandem is going to be X-Allen, not Allen-X

Yeah even if Allen has a great twelve or so games, I wouldn't trust him with a 1A spot given his last few years. Sure he was a 1 once but he's also older now. The last time he was good as a starter was 2016-17, the last time he was even okay-ish was two years later, since then he's either been a decent backup or a poor starter.

 

[devilsblood]

	CF/60	CA/60	CF%	xGF/60	xGA/60	xGF%
October	66.67​	58.82​	58.82​	2.79​	2.59​	51.88​
November	62.56​	56.22​	56.22​	2.74​	2.00​	57.79​
December	72.1​	48.77​	59.65​	3.46​	2.58​	57.3​
January	62.35​	57.39​	52.07​	2.85​	2.88​	49.77​
February	72.62​	63.39​	53.39​	3.14​	3.23​	49.29​
March	68.42​	56.15​	54.93​	3.28​	2.56​	56.19​

Pretty obvious dip in his performance, particularly defensive performance, during February. Especially following his fantastic play in November and December where he was legitimately playing at a top pairing level.

The Corsi numbers in Feb look alright because he was shooting with volume. He personally had 111 shot attempts in November, 17th most by any defenseman in the league that month. He was on the ice for the 10th most unblocked shots for, but also on the ice for the 6th most unblocked shot attempts against. He was playing very high event hockey, not something you want to do with the worst goalie play in the league.

Team numbers are very similar, low CFA in dec, higher in Jan and Feb.

Also not sure if Luke shooting more is indicative of a tired player. Maybe a player trying to do too much.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't think he's coming back and I don't think he ever was. Fitz heavily implied it when he was acquired.

And they wouldn't even let him play the next game after he got a shutout, if that tells you anything. They went right back to Allen. I was in favor of letting him get last night's game after the shutout.

I think the only way he was ever coming back was if they made the decision to keep him over Allen and trade Allen's $1.9 somewhere else in the offseason. Since Allen got here they've only even given him 2 games. His first game was before Allen was able to play for immigration reasons.

If they're trying to audition him I feel they would give him more games and give him the next game after a shutout. It feels like he's probably only gonna get 3 of the remaining 9 games. The two back to backs and maybe one other.

Maybe if we can't get anything done with any of the ''Big fish'' goalies and the only option is to trade for Gibson (who isn't even better than Allen at this point and is expensive/3 more years of term remaining) or bring back Kahkonen to platoon with Allen, maybe they bring him back.

When you A) have as poor numbers as Kakkohnen the last two years with no real positive sample size prior other than two meh years as a clear backup and B) the GM basically says he traded for you to get 'flexibility', there's not much of a chance you'll do enough in a five-seven game sample size to change anyone's mind. There is possibly a world where they keep Kahkonnen as backup and trade Allen but they're clearly not going to roll it back with both when Fitz's ass is in the jackpot with his goalie choices next year and he's been trying to go big-game hunting for at least a year.

Even if Kahkonnen would take a two-way deal and go down to Utica why would you want him taking time away from Daws, Poulter and Schmid?

But what if the clear upgrade is not there? We all ask why a trade was not made for a goalie in Dec or Jan, well, probably because there wasn't a trade to be made(though I bet he could have gotten Kahkonen earlier).

I dunno, maybe he does make that trade for Markstrom, but as I say above, having 2 mid 30 goalies sounds pretty risky.

While trading for Saros sounds very expensive, on multiple fronts.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Another good buy low guy would be Arvidsson

The guy who Jack said "people pay to watch me" to? That should be interesting LOL

 

[Cheddabombs]

The Devils ran goalies to the ground this year because they've all sucked. So when one of then finally played good enough they ran with it. Last year the split was pretty even, I don't recall Vitek being hurt, or at least hurt for an extended period, and he only played 52 games.