Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Setec Astronomy]

While I completely understand and agree with the notion of "innocent til proven guilty" silence is worse for McLeod. You would think if he was innocent or not involved he or his agent/lawyer would be screaming that from the mountain tops.

There's 2 people left on the team that haven't made a statement and 8 were allegedly directly involved.

Others have made statements that they weren't at the event or even in the province at the time. Easily proven wrong if lying... so I believe them. It's up to him to prove his innocence and he proves he belongs on this team. With continued silence, there will be questions and distractions continually. An average fourth liner is not worth that especially when he's easily replaceable by signing/trade/system.

The only thing that we know for sure right now is that the accuser brought a lawsuit, chose not to pursue claims and discovery against the individuals she was accusing and ultimately settled with Hockey Canada. The inference you can make from McCleod's silence at this point is that he had an encounter of some sort with the accuser, which can run the gamut of being an observer of something, boorish but not illegal behavior, consensual or nonconsensual sexual acts.

Given that the people who primarily get to shape the narrative (sports journalists and Canadian politicians) have assumed guilt, McLeod or any of the other players should not be commenting unless they can prove they were somewhere else. If I were the Devils, I would be fair to my employee, and not take any disciplinary action until, at the very least, I actually knew something beyond what's being reported in the press.

 

[My3Sons]

We don’t have any center prospects who possibly compete with McLeod, not sure why you think we do. Talvitie is in no way better than McLeod. Not sure Thompson is a center and he should definitely see time in Utica, particularly since he’s still waiver exempt.

He’s fine as the 4C and is actually genuinely needed on the PK and as a defensive center. He makes 975k.

McLeod far from a perfect player, I would like to see him get better defensively 5v5 actually, that would increase his value without increasing his cost much.

Zero players have been effected by this scandal so far.

Sam Steel finally got signed, he might have sat on the UFA market for long while because basically kind of sucks. Some people point to Ottawa not signing Drake Batherson yet but the Sens (and every team) have signed RFAs late before.

Team Canada is, and in my opinion rightly, baring the brunt of this because people know what they did. (And they’re a government institution that bears some responsibilities here.)

I can’t play a guessing game about if McLeod was involved or has knowledge about it from the current information.

I don’t know, new information could come out and all sorts of things could happen. I don’t see why a team would be expected to act now unless they have a lot more information than the public.

If Haula pushes Nico down a line can't Hischier be the 4C and replace McLeod?

Sorry, I know you like to make fun of me for the ongoing 3C commentary.

 

[Bleedred]

I was listening to one of the recent 32 thoughts podcasts yesterday (I had to catch up, so I don't think it was the most recent episode, but it was from sometime the last week) and they had one of the guys that works for the league on there talking about a new show Subban is doing, but that it's not set to premiere until 2024, to which Elliotte replied ''Wow, that's a lot of pre-production?'' or something like that.

The guy had mentioned that PK Is not signed yet, but whether he is or isn't playing, they'll work around his playing schedule.

There was one comment he made, and I don't remember exactly what it was, but there was one comment he made that seemed to make me question ''Did he just imply that Subban's playing career is over? Or that it will be over in the next year, if it's not already?''.

So maybe I was onto something with that.

 

[JrFischer54]

Yes, if the Devils get inside information that a story is going to drop proving McLeod's guilt, then I'm with you - go ahead and be proactive. But that's not what you're advising here given the "if/when this story does drop..." comment.

You're advocating that they cut/get rid of a player based solely on speculation, which is complete horseshit. But, it's justified in your mind because he's a "4th line fringe player". So, where's your line then? If he was better does he get a free pass or at least the courtesy of letting the situation play out before making a rash, career altering decision? How about if he was a top 9 forward? Top 6? Is it still OK to tar and feather him based on a hunch?

i don't make the rules brother but thats how the world is unfortunately. if i'm in charge of the world he would be gone regardless of how good or bad he is. i said before with the hawks that entire roster should be banished and not eligible for any hof or awards. thats not how the world works though good players get passes. ask yourself if beach (forgot his name) was a top 5 player in the league would the hawks have let him get abused? would the players have mocked him on the ice openly?

 

[Billdo]

NJ didn’t overpay for palat but did give him more term than other teams might have been offering because NJ had to get him, he was Fitz’s guy after losing out on JG.

Term given to get someone to sign is still an overpayment and in a lot of cases even worse.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Get prepared for the "greatest shape of my life" quotes for tomorrow during training camp weigh-ins and interviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to brag, but I just ran my best 6 miles yesterday. Then completely obliterated all of those gains with a trip to Popeyes. I’m at peak male performance.

 

[JrFischer54]

Yeah no party is going to have an easy time dealing with this. If the Devils want to cut him, his agent will say "based on what" since there's no conclusive findings.

They Devils likely can't trade him without knowing he is actually completely innocent. If he is innocent, he doesn't need to be traded anyway.

if the devils want him gone they will get rid of him within the scope of hockey related reasons. him or his agent fighting it will only bring attention to the case more then probably is going on now though so not sure they would even fight it.

You can't keep throwing rookies on the bottom 6 and expect to win. You need good role players that offer something defensively. I'm not saying McLeod is that yet, but you generally get better defensively the more NHL experience you have. So he's closer to being a solid bottom 6er than if you cycle prospects down there. This team has to make an effort to win at some point.

Zetterlund for example has played a grand total of 14 games. We'll see if he has what it takes, and we sort of have to since he's waiver-eligible, but there's a decent chance that he fails. McLeod has at least proven he is a (limited) NHL-level player.

this team isn't winning because the bottom 6 stinks.

 

[My3Sons]

The only thing that we know for sure right now is that the accuser brought a lawsuit, chose not to pursue claims and discovery against the individuals she was accusing and ultimately settled with Hockey Canada. The inference you can make from McCleod's silence at this point is that he had an encounter of some sort with the accuser, which can run the gamut of being an observer of something, boorish but not illegal behavior, consensual or nonconsensual sexual acts.

Given that the people who primarily get to shape the narrative (sports journalists and Canadian politicians) have assumed guilt, McLeod or any of the other players should not be commenting unless they can prove they were somewhere else. If I were the Devils, I would be fair to my employee, and not take any disciplinary action until, at the very least, I actually knew something beyond what's being reported in the press.

I waffle on the inference. On one hand I am not sure if you can infer contact with the accuser. McLeod's silence could indicate a number of things but not all of them contact with the accuser. Maybe he sent text messages to the players involved in the incident or maybe he was part of a cover up after the incident even if he did not participate directly. On the other hand, his silence to me indicates something significant but it's not evidence, just a supposition.

 

[Guttersniped]

Almost hard to believe he's retiring.

He only just turned 33, which isn't close to young in the NHL, but there are even older defenseman in the league that are worse than him, who just signed this offseason.

Maybe he's got nagging issues or just lost his passion for playing?

I really could see him coming out of retirement in a year and either signing a one year deal or getting a PTO somewhere, if he really has the itch and wants to give it another go.

It feels weird that Andy Greene (who was absolutely worse than Subban and has been for years now) is almost 7 years older and his career in the NHL (from the looks of it) ended at the same time as Subban's.

And I still wouldn't put it past Lou to give Greene a PTO or even sign him a month or two into the season if guys started getting injured.

Yeah, I thought he would have gone Cup chasing as a cheap vet.

He made a lot of money being in the basement here but he has a ton of playoff experience before that. The top teams can’t afford to pay guys anything, it’s not unseemly to take a dirt cheap deal.

And while he might not get a spot on true contender (putting aside Toronto jokes) he can just go to a good team and start from there. Corey Perry has been at for 3 years on 3 different teams and Cap Friendly has his earnings at 91.5m. And he won a Cup, though it was his 2nd season. He might have been a little young to really enjoy it.

He talked about having a lot of hockey left after the season. It’s a shame if his “reputation” has led teams to think he can’t take a back seat as a vet because that seems to stem a lot from the high drama of the Habs locker room coverage.

 

[HBK27]

i don't make the rules brother but thats how the world is unfortunately. if i'm in charge of the world he would be gone regardless of how good or bad he is. i said before with the hawks that entire roster should be banished and not eligible for any hof or awards. thats not how the world works though good players get passes. ask yourself if beach (forgot his name) was a top 5 player in the league would the hawks have let him get abused? would the players have mocked him on the ice openly?

Good thing you're not in charge as your actions are completely emotionally driven and over-the-top versus grounded in facts and logic. Terminating a player based solely on a personal suspicion of some type of guilt is not only insane, but a very dangerous precedent.

 

[Darkauron]

Not to brag, but I just ran my best 6 miles yesterday. Then completely obliterated all of those gains with a trip to Popeyes. I’m at peak male performance.

I just had Popeyes yesterday too! What a cosmic conincince. Popeyes > KFC anyway

 

[HBK27]

if the devils want him gone they will get rid of him within the scope of hockey related reasons. him or his agent fighting it will only bring attention to the case more then probably is going on now though so not sure they would even fight it.

LOL - you really think his agent and the NHLPA would just just let it slide and not file a wrongful termination suit and/or grievance against the Devils?

Wow, the awful takes just keep coming from you...

 

[My3Sons]

Not to brag, but I just ran my best 6 miles yesterday. Then completely obliterated all of those gains with a trip to Popeyes. I’m at peak male performance.

That's living your best life. I can't eat like that anymore but there is nothing in fast food that I enjoy more than Popeye's spicy chicken. Great job. Enjoy it now while you can.

 

[JrFischer54]

Good thing you're not in charge as your actions are completely emotionally driven and over-the-top versus grounded in facts and logic. Terminating a player based solely on a personal suspicion of some type of guilt is not only insane, but a very dangerous precedent.

no it really isn't. its a free country he doesn't have to make a statement but imo he should i know if this was me in this spot and if i was innocent i would come out and say that he obviously for some reason isn't/can't. so i'll take the information at hand and his silence into account and base my opinion on it. if i'm running a multi million dollar business i'll be making move behind the scenes to distance myself from the person too. its a business and the devils have every right to look out for their own interests and if mikey isn't going to help them do that then they can only help him so much.

 

[HBK27]

Yeah, I thought he would have gone Cup chasing as a cheap vet.

He made a lot of money being in the basement here but he has a ton of playoff experience before that. The top teams can’t afford to pay guys anything, it’s not unseemly to take a dirt cheap deal.

And while he might not get a spot on true contender (putting aside Toronto jokes) he can just go to a good team and start from there. Corey Perry has been at for 3 years on 3 different teams and Cap Friendly has his earnings at 91.5m. And he won a Cup, though it was his 2nd season. He might have been a little young to really enjoy it.

He talked about having a lot of hockey left after the season. It’s a shame if his “reputation” has led teams to think he can’t take a back seat as a vet because that seems to stem a lot from the high drama of the Habs locker room coverage.

I was a bit surprised too that he didn't a least try to chase a Cup somewhere. Has to be such a thrill to lace them up in the first place and play in front of fans, that that also has to be tough to give up. Who knows what type of nagging injuries he was dealing with and if he still really had it in him to go through the grind of a season, not to mention having to move (at least once...possibly twice if he signing with a so-so team and was dealt at the deadline). Also helps that he has a fairly clear post-playing plan/opportunity in the media, which surely makes retirement much, much easier.

 

[JrFischer54]

LOL - you really think his agent and the NHLPA would just just let it slide and not file a wrongful termination suit and/or grievance against the Devils?

Wow, the awful takes just keep coming from you...

i mean i never said anything about a wrongful termination you probably misread what i wrote it happens a lot on here. its ok

 

[NjDevsRR]

That's living your best life. I can't eat like that anymore but there is nothing in fast food that I enjoy more than Popeye's spicy chicken. Great job. Enjoy it now while you can.

I just had Popeyes yesterday too! What a cosmic conincince. Popeyes > KFC anyway

I may do Chick-Fil-A soon for the praise the lawd almighty jesus is our savior chicky sandwich and waffle fries.

But seriously I rarely do fast food. I’ll do McDonalds, Popeyes, Taco Bell, Chick-Fil-A once a year.

 

[Guttersniped]

Not to brag, but I just ran my best 6 miles yesterday. Then completely obliterated all of those gains with a trip to Popeyes. I’m at peak male performance.

There goes all that pure muscle gain.

 

[HBK27]

no it really isn't. its a free country he doesn't have to make a statement but imo he should i know if this was me in this spot and if i was innocent i would come out and say that he obviously for some reason isn't/can't. so i'll take the information at hand and his silence into account and base my opinion on it. if i'm running a multi million dollar business i'll be making move behind the scenes to distance myself from the person too. its a business and the devils have every right to look out for their own interests and if mikey isn't going to help them do that then they can only help him so much.

Good thing that your opinion means jack shit.

McLeod may have been involved with some type of encounter with this woman, but may not have done anything criminally or even morally wrong, in which case I don't see how commenting on the situation would benefit him at all (Setec Astronomy articulated this very well in post 2,676).

Good thing that those running the multi-million dollar business got there by making rational decisions versus emotion-filled overreactions.

What exactly would you do if you were Fitzgerald, then? Just cut him on the spot and deal with the consequences later? Do you actually think through the next steps as to how any of this plays out?

i mean i never said anything about a wrongful termination you probably misread what i wrote it happens a lot on here. its ok

Maybe if you could actually type in sentences people might better understand you. What the hell did you mean then, when you said that you're "not sure they would even fight it."?

 

[Guttersniped]

If Haula pushes Nico down a line can't Hischier be the 4C and replace McLeod?

Sorry, I know you like to make fun of me for the ongoing 3C commentary.

Make fun of you? I honor you dear sir.

 

[My3Sons]

Make fun of you? I honor you dear sir.

Silly me, it’s my wife and kids and even the dogs that make fun of me.

 

[JrFischer54]

Good thing that your opinion means jack shit.

McLeod may have been involved with some type of encounter with this woman, but may not have done anything criminally or even morally wrong, in which case I don't see how commenting on the situation would benefit him at all (Setec Astronomy articulated this very well in post 2,676).

Good thing that those running the multi-million dollar business got there by making rational decisions versus emotion-filled overreactions.

What exactly would you do if you were Fitzgerald, then? Just cut him on the spot and deal with the consequences later? Do you actually think through the next steps as to how any of this plays out?



Maybe if you could actually type in sentences people might better understand you. What the hell did you mean then, when you said that you're "not sure they would even fight it."?

there wouldn't be any reason to fight anything if the devils followed proper procedure to get rid of him. then fighting such a move would only draw more interest in the case. is that better for you?

thats what makes this country great i could say i would do things my way and hold people accountable you can do things your ways doing legal jujitsu for someone involved in a questionable event. but hey whatevers you do you.

btw all i did was ask him to make a statement saying he wasn't involved i don't think thats asking too much of a person that is innocent.

 

[Camille the Eel]

We don’t have any center prospects who possibly compete with McLeod, not sure why you think we do. Talvitie is in no way better than McLeod. Not sure Thompson is a center and he should definitely see time in Utica, particularly since he’s still waiver exempt.

He’s fine as the 4C and is actually genuinely needed on the PK and as a defensive center. He makes 975k.

McLeod far from a perfect player, I would like to see him get better defensively 5v5 actually, that would increase his value without increasing his cost much.

Zero players have been effected by this scandal so far.

Sam Steel finally got signed, he might have sat on the UFA market for long while because basically kind of sucks. Some people point to Ottawa not signing Drake Batherson yet but the Sens (and every team) have signed RFAs late before.

Team Canada is, and in my opinion rightly, baring the brunt of this because people know what they did. (And they’re a government institution that bears some responsibilities here.)

I can’t play a guessing game about if McLeod was involved or has knowledge about it from the current information.

I don’t know, new information could come out and all sorts of things could happen. I don’t see why a team would be expected to act now unless they have a lot more information than the public.

Also not only what happened 4 years ago, but where is McLeod now as a maturing young man 4 years down the line? In assessing what his future is, you need to strike the right balance between what someone did at 18 years old and how they’ve grown up since then. This is just another reason not to rush to judgment.

 

[JrFischer54]

Also not only what happened 4 years ago, but where is McLeod now as a maturing young man 4 years down the line? In assessing what his future is, you need to strike the right balance between what someone did at 18 years old and how they’ve grown up since then. This is just another reason not to rush to judgment.

rape is rape i don't care if the person at 18 went on to cure cancer they are still a rapist and should be charged as such.

 

[HBK27]

there wouldn't be any reason to fight anything if the devils followed proper procedure to get rid of him. then fighting such a move would only draw more interest in the case. is that better for you?

thats what makes this country great i could say i would do things my way and hold people accountable you can do things your ways doing legal jujitsu for someone involved in a questionable event. but hey whatevers you do you.

There is no "proper procedure" to get rid of him given everything we currently know. Whatever out clauses are in there for the Devils to terminate McLeod's contract have most certainly not been met merely because he has been publicly quiet about an ongoing investigation. Any termination of his contract at this point in time would be well outside of any "proper procedure".

I also didn't dispute that McLeod's agent fighting the termination would draw more interest to the case - but the absurd assertion you made that maybe they would just "not even fight it" and walk away from $1,000,000 (at least, given that a wrongful termination could also negatively impact future earnings).

So, what exactly would you be holding McCleod accountable for? What are you completely confident he has done to warrant getting his contract terminated?

It's funny how you think you can just ignore the legality of the actions you're recommending.

Your take on this issue is pure emotion and zero logic - thankfully well run organizations do not operate this way.

rape is rape i don't care if the person at 18 went on to cure cancer they are still a rapist and should be charged as such.

Are you accusing McLeod of being a rapist?