Devils Team Discussion (current team/player news and notes) ‎PART XI

[Eric Sachs]

he happened to have good strech in the end of season(about 8-9 consecutive games) against the non-playoff teams who had their hope lost of making the playoffs and piled up his stats.

Best part of this is Schneider didn't play well. No. He just "happened to have a good stretch". Can't even give the guy an ounce of respect for anything.. he just lucked into it.

8-9 consecutive games at the end of the season? okay.. let's see.

in reverse order

Senators
Flames
Hurricanes
Capitals
Sabres
Panthers
Islanders
Maple Leafs

So that's 8 games there. Two against teams that were competing for a playoff spot at the time (Leafs + Capitals) but we'll ignore that as you did earlier because it doesn't fit the narrative. So let's take these 8 games away and see what his sv% looks like.

1107 shots, 1019 saves
In those games, he had 189 shots and 180 saves.
So excluding those games (which makes no sense to do but let's go for it!): 918 shots, 839 saves

For a sv% of... .914.

So we take away one of his best 8 game runs of the season, and he still manages to post a better save percentage than his compatriot... who got to keep his best 8 game stretch.

Now to make this an actual comparison that's useful in a discussion about his skills.. we would need to go about and take away the best 8 game stretches of every other goaltender in the league.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you take away the best 8 game stretches of a goaltender, his stats will go down. It's a crazy assumption, I know.. but I just feel that if you take away the goalie's best games, his stats won't look as good.

 

[Devils090]

why is this goalie argument still a thing?

 

[MadDevil]

That's what im trying to prove lol

And that's all that really matters. He's paid to stop pucks, and he's pretty damn good at it. If the team in front of him can actually score some goals he's probably going to win a lot of games in his career.

Only Devils fans could find a way to argue over going from one of the greatest to ever play the game to one of the best goalies in the league today. How ****ing spoiled are we?

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

he happened to have good strech in the end of season(about 8-9 consecutive games) against the non-playoff teams who had their hope lost of making the playoffs and piled up his stats.

45 games isn't full season either.

next season +60 games will tell us more.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. He piled up his stats against non playoff teams at the end of the year? Are you ****ing serious? I guess you forgot the Washington and Carolina games in which Henrique, Elias, and Clowe missed due to injury and we were icing an ECHL caliber bottom 6 and yet Schneider was nothing short of herculean in those games, keeping our playoff hopes alive. But know, lets ignore that. Who cares what kinds of teams he beat? Aren't you one of the people who was always talking about how WINS is the important number among the goalies? Well, hey Schneider won games towards the end of the year but now it does't matter because the teams he beat weren't in a playoff spot? Yup, makes sense.

 

[Emperoreddy]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. He piled up his stats against non playoff teams at the end of the year? Are you ****ing serious? I guess you forgot the Washington and Carolina games in which Henrique, Elias, and Clowe missed due to injury and we were icing an ECHL caliber bottom 6 and yet Schneider was nothing short of herculean in those games, keeping our playoff hopes alive. But know, lets ignore that. Who cares what kinds of teams he beat? Aren't you one of the people who was always talking about how WINS is the important number among the goalies? Well, hey Schneider won games towards the end of the year but now it does't matter because the teams he beat weren't in a playoff spot? Yup, makes sense.

Ugh I dreamed the dream after that Caps game when like half the roster got hurt, and that crazy Cane's game too. Team showed some REAL guts there that I wish they showed a bit more of in a few other games earlier.

 

[Pegi90*]

Best part of this is Schneider didn't play well. No. He just "happened to have a good stretch". Can't even give the guy an ounce of respect for anything.. he just lucked into it.

8-9 consecutive games at the end of the season? okay.. let's see.

in reverse order

Senators
Flames
Hurricanes
Capitals
Sabres
Panthers
Islanders
Maple Leafs

So that's 8 games there. Two against teams that were competing for a playoff spot at the time (Leafs + Capitals) but we'll ignore that as you did earlier because it doesn't fit the narrative. So let's take these 8 games away and see what his sv% looks like.

1107 shots, 1019 saves
In those games, he had 189 shots and 180 saves.
So excluding those games (which makes no sense to do but let's go for it!): 918 shots, 839 saves

For a sv% of... .914.

So we take away one of his best 8 game runs of the season, and he still manages to post a better save percentage than his compatriot... who got to keep his best 8 game stretch.

Now to make this an actual comparison that's useful in a discussion about his skills.. we would need to go about and take away the best 8 game stretches of every other goaltender in the league.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you take away the best 8 game stretches of a goaltender, his stats will go down. It's a crazy assumption, I know.. but I just feel that if you take away the goalie's best games, his stats won't look as good.

compatriot i assume you mearn marty.

i didn't compare these two, i kept it just on schneider.

those last 8 games he played, were against the non-playoff teams and most of them, as you said had their hope lost for a playoff spot.

before that "strech" schneider was something like 91.4% and i would assume, considering the fact his stats against the playoff teams weren't that good his save % wouldn't have raised if he actually faced 8 playoff teams instead of 8 non-playoff teams. even keeping his save % at 91.4% or whatever it was before that last 8 game "strech" would have been a won battle for him.

he had 45 games, with the 21 of them being playoff teams and 24 not, 21-24 making his opponents 46.6% being playoff teams.

marty's was 24-15 and that's 61.5% of his opponents happened to be playoff teams.

next year when there's not marty taking the mammoth part of playoff teams, we will see how cory does.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Ugh I dreamed the dream after that Caps game when like half the roster got hurt, and that crazy Cane's game too. Team showed some REAL guts there that I wish they showed a bit more of in a few other games earlier.

Yup, one of the best efforts of the year. But lets remember, Washington wasn't in a playoff spot at the time so Schneider was just padding his stats.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Still talking about Marty, even though hes unemployed right now.

Simply amazing.

 

[Pegi90*]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. He piled up his stats against non playoff teams at the end of the year? Are you ****ing serious? I guess you forgot the Washington and Carolina games in which Henrique, Elias, and Clowe missed due to injury and we were icing an ECHL caliber bottom 6 and yet Schneider was nothing short of herculean in those games, keeping our playoff hopes alive. But know, lets ignore that. Who cares what kinds of teams he beat? Aren't you one of the people who was always talking about how WINS is the important number among the goalies? Well, hey Schneider won games towards the end of the year but now it does't matter because the teams he beat weren't in a playoff spot? Yup, makes sense.

schneider actually beat 6 playoff teams whole year out of 45 games.

of course every game counts but imagine if he faced playoff teams instead of non-playoff teams in the end of season, his stats would have just dropped considering the fact how statistically poorly he played against the playoff teams.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

schneider actually beat 6 playoff teams whole year out of 45 games.

of course every game counts but imagine if he faced playoff teams instead of non-playoff teams in the end of season, his stats would have just dropped considering the fact how statistically poorly he played against the playoff teams.

Your vendetta against Schneider is just hysterical. You really do a great job of blocking out all the positive things he did and cherry pick the few negatives there were. Its impressive, really.

We have one of the better goalies in the league locked up for the next seven years but you can't seem to stop taking jabs at him over how he didn't win enough, when its already been proven that the team in front of him couldn't put the puck in the net if there life depended on it. Your narrative needs to take a hike.

 

[Pegi90*]

Your vendetta against Schneider is just hysterical. You really do a great job of blocking out all the positive things he did and cherry pick the few negatives there were. Its impressive, really.

We have one of the better goalies in the league locked up for the next seven years but you can't seem to stop taking jabs at him over how he didn't win enough, when its already been proven that the team in front of him couldn't put the puck in the net if there life depended on it. Your narrative needs to take a hike.

i have nothing against cory, absolutely nothing.

only thing i have done is brought up the facts about his performance against the playoff teams, how many playoff teams faced, how many wins he gathered etc. i don't know whats wrong with that seriously. and because of that, you can't accept the fact cory wasn't that superior and overlord as you thought you went and started to bash marty, how he sucked last season, how he didn't deserve those wins, how he shouldn't have played those games he got and how he ain't gonna even find a job for himself anymore.

the reason we didn't score that much for cory isn't coincidence, i don't know how many times i gotta say it. pete deboer doesn't have crystal ball where he can choose the games where we scoring more and putting marty on those, believe or not.

marty's puckhandling + demeanor on the ice it helped us and it obviously affected on our offense but not directly, it most likely affected on the decisions made by our opponent team, like how their coach kept that 20min brief about marty before the game, how to play against him and such, it's obviously different to play against us when marty on goal instead of cory, don't deny that.

 

[Bleedred]

Still talking about Marty, even though hes unemployed right now.

Simply amazing.

If he's so good now, how come he hasn't been signed? Could it be because every other GM knows he isn't good, and isn't worth what he probably thinks he should be paid? What other goalies are out there unsigned right now? Tim Thomas who like Marty, has also been reduced to a skeleton at this point in time. And Tomas Vokoun who spent the entire last season injured.

 

[Bleedred]

Yup, one of the best efforts of the year. But lets remember, Washington wasn't in a playoff spot at the time so Schneider was just padding his stats.

Halak also let in a pathetically weak ass goal that game with under 5 minutes left in regulation. Schneider also made a huge save with less than two minutes remaining.

He also stole us a game against the Stanley Cup champs, in which the rest of the the team was still back in Anaheim.

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah big shock a guy's save percentage usually improves against non-playoff teams although it didn't work out that way for Marty. If you're going to use selective stats to mealy-mouth Cory how about Marty's .884 save percentage against NON-playoff teams? Or are we just glossing over those games too since games against non-playoff teams don't count? If it was so easy to pile up numbers against bad teams why didn't Marty do it?

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah big shock a guy's save percentage usually improves against non-playoff teams although it didn't work out that way for Marty. If you're going to use selective stats to mealy-mouth Cory how about Marty's .884 save percentage against NON-playoff teams? Or are we just glossing over those games too since games against non-playoff teams don't count? If it was so easy to pile up numbers against bad teams why didn't Marty do it?

In before "well his record against non playoff teams was 85-4".

 

[NJDevs26]

lol Marty's record and splits were actually better against playoff teams (13-8-3) than non-playoff teams (6-6-3), though one of the playoff team wins was that gimme game against Boston at the end of the season, and one of the non-playoff wins was the dopey Florida game.

And that whole '6 wins in 45 games' is a gross mischaracterization of Cory's record. First of all Cory started 43 games, he played in 45 because of two relief appearances. Cory had 21 starts against playoff teams where he went 7-10-4, and 22 starts against non-playoff teams where he went 9-5-8. It just sounds better when you're making a case against a guy to say well he had 6 (really 7) wins against playoff teams in 45 games when he didn't play playoff teams all the time, and of course not counting the OT/SO games you get a point in either. I call that manipulating the numbers, and people don't do that unless they really have it in for someone.

 

[Buggsy]

compatriot i assume you mearn marty.

i didn't compare these two, i kept it just on schneider.

those last 8 games he played, were against the non-playoff teams and most of them, as you said had their hope lost for a playoff spot.

before that "strech" schneider was something like 91.4% and i would assume, considering the fact his stats against the playoff teams weren't that good his save % wouldn't have raised if he actually faced 8 playoff teams instead of 8 non-playoff teams. even keeping his save % at 91.4% or whatever it was before that last 8 game "strech" would have been a won battle for him.

he had 45 games, with the 21 of them being playoff teams and 24 not, 21-24 making his opponents 46.6% being playoff teams.

marty's was 24-15 and that's 61.5% of his opponents happened to be playoff teams.

next year when there's not marty taking the mammoth part of playoff teams, we will see how cory does.

Mammoth? The 3 game difference constitutes mammoth?

Since you like digging through information so much, would you mind posting the teams each played that were playoff teams? I'd like to see the quality of the competition as we all know West playoff teams vs East playoffs teams is not the same thing.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

45 games played and only 46.6% of them being playoff teams.

his stats against the playoff teams:

89.62% and 2.52 gga.

anyways, don't wanna try to "bash" cory, just stating facts that those stats of his were better than he actually was last year.

this upcoming season will tell us more about his skills.

please post this again, I didn't see it the first 50 times you posted it.

I just think its hilarious how you completely dismiss half the other games as if those games don't matter.

 

[JimEIV]

I was just looking at the Vezina finalist for the last 5 years and to my surprise only 2 people were finalist twice in the last 5 years 13 different people have been Vezina finalist in the last 5 years...Only Lundqvst and Rinne have been finalist more than once...13 different names out of 15 possible seems like an awful lot. I guess anybody can be the best goalie in the league at any given time. That is Because there NO FREAKIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANY OF THEM!!!!



2014
Tuukka Rask
Semyon Varlamov
Ben Bishop

2013
Sergei Bobrovsky
Henrik Lundqvist
Antti Niemi

2012
Henrik Lundqvist
Jonathan Quick
Pekka Rinne

2011
Tim Thomas
Pekka Rinne
Roberto Luongo

2010
Ryan Miller
Ilya Bryzgalov
Martin Brodeur

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Guys and gals, who cares. Cory's here for six more years and for the Devils sake lets hope he has great success, while he's here. Can please turn the page on this.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

schneider actually beat 6 playoff teams whole year out of 45 games.

of course every game counts but imagine if he faced playoff teams instead of non-playoff teams in the end of season, his stats would have just dropped considering the fact how statistically poorly he played against the playoff teams.

this isn't true. He played against I think 13 teams that went to the playoffs.

EDIT - You said beat.

 

[Baggy Spandex]

Playoff teams, non-playoff teams, rabble rabble rabble. Who cares?

If you watched the games, like I did, you would know Schneider is a phenomenal goaltender. Cut this **** out.

 

[JimEIV]

Essentially half the league has had a goalie who has been one of the best in the last 5 years....Now that is funny to me.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

I like that you said strongly related, but not causal - which I think is the correct phrasing.

The point is that save % and points % could be collinear, with the the causal factors being strength of D, strength of F, and goaltender ability (and maybe even scorekeeper's tendency to "over" or "under" record shots - to some of Pegi's issue). Unless you can isolate goalie ability as the main determinant of save % (and, in this case, it's a very narrow analysis as the goalie ability needs to the be primary explainer for the difference between a .910 save % and a .925 save % - which is where most goalies fall between), then we haven't really gotten at the issue.

Yes we have - Jim was trying to make the case that save % does not have a strong effect on winning %. That is debunked.

Discussing the variables that effect save percentage most is a different equation entirely.

 

[Missionhockey]

A) he was playing a lot of the games
B) the game is a lot different now than it was even ~10 years ago.

A. Duh

B. What did I say that wasn't relevant to today? That the way the team plays in front of you affects your stats?