Devils Team Discussion (current team/player news and notes) ‎2014-2015 Part XII

[JimEIV]

Do we really think Gomez, who was sitting around without a contract for months has now upped his stock to the point where it is worthwhile to trade him?

Very skeptical of that.

He hasn't upped his stock, not in only 10 games.

If he continues the upward trend to the deadline, maybe...but definitely not yet

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

Couldn't agree more, it's going to be a rough few years regardless most likely; but it's going to be exponentially worse if our management continues to delude itself into thinking we're even remotely close to being competitive. I can stomach the losing if i can see it's part of a plan and that the team has some direction, i don't expect a bunch of kids to be some miracle solution that will immediately propel us back into the upper echelons of the league. But i'd rather lose with kids than watch a bunch of washed up veteran plugs put in equally putrid performances without the added benefit of them actually learning something.

That's what is so damn frustrating about this season, we're not only treated to an awful product on the ice, but there has been zero indication from our management as to what the current plan is or how things are going to get turned around. At least most other teams have a shred of accountability and give their fans some idea of what the current thought train is. Instead we sit here clueless as to what direction the team is planning to go, with a coach who seems to have precisely zero clue on how to get anything out of this roster, and to make matters worse almost all of our big minutes are being taken by veteran players who will play no role whatsoever in the future of this franchise.

I think most of us half expect Lou to make another Ruutu style acquisition at the deadline when we're 15+ points out of a playoff spot in some futile attempt to try and turn things around. Either way, i'm certain it's not the losing that has turned the fans against the team in recent weeks, it's the fact our management refuses to address the situation in any way shape or form except for giving meaningless "we've got to do better" answers to any questions from the media. It's quite clear we need to do better, i'd love for them to perhaps tell us how they plan to accomplish that.

All of this. Excellent post.

I'm also somewhat troubled by what's recently been coming out of the mouths of young players like Henrique (a possible future team captain). I sense a real "losing culture" creeping in, and if anything can still be accomplished in this lost season, it's youth development, rather than ruination a la Edmonton. That's why I think PDB needs to go now rather than later, even if it hurts our draft status slightly (which I don't really think it will, we're top 5 bound one way or the other).

 

[glenwo2]

This organization needs a complete overhaul. We got new owners, they need to start acting now.

Lou needs to step down. It's over. Let someone else, someone unlike Lou take over.
Get a new coaching staff.
Get rid of Jagr, Zidlicky, Elias, Zubrus, Ryder, Salvador etc. Get some draft picks.

It's going to be a few rough years.

Chris Lamoriello is "unlike Lou".

 

[RNCDevil]

I'm going to council some patience. The drafting of forwards has been crap, but the plan to draft and build from the goalie out is under way. Severson, Merrill, Gelinas, Larsson and hopefully Santini..maybe Helgeson, Burlon...they are going to be the foundation.

This season is a disaster a coaching change is not going to save it. Parlay what you have for some assets and get those forwards. Greene, Merrill, Severson (if he projects), Larsson, Gelinas (if he projects), Santini...you have to psyched about those 6. Yes, they've made some mistakes and PDB can be grating at times...and yes, the AARP Devils are a pain to watch, but I predict that they are not too far away.

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

I'm going to council some patience. The drafting of forwards has been crap, but the plan to draft and build from the goalie out is under way. Severson, Merrill, Gelinas, Larsson and hopefully Santini..maybe Helgeson, Burlon...they are going to be the foundation.

This season is a disaster a coaching change is not going to save it. Parlay what you have for some assets and get those forwards. Greene, Merrill, Severson (if he projects), Larsson, Gelinas (if he projects), Santini...you have to psyched about those 6. Yes, they've made some mistakes and PDB can be grating at times...and yes, the AARP Devils are a pain to watch, but I predict that they are not too far away.

I'm all for patience, but only when a rebuild is being handled properly. Optimistic Edmonton fans were saying the exact same sort of things years ago, but about their forward core. Problem was, they didn't develop them properly and had no clue how to draft or develop defense, goaltenders or two-way players. Now we're like a mirror-opposite version, a bunch if young D and a couple of good goalies with a coach/system that's not really right for their continued development, and a total ****show when it comes to forwards. You must have at least some semblance of balanced team construction to be successful in today's NHL, but our "culture" is stuck in the grind-it-out 90s just like the Oilers culture is stuck in the freewheeling 80s. Neither of these mentalities are proving to be anything other than a disaster.

 

[RNCDevil]

I'm all for patience, but only when a rebuild is being handled properly. Optimistic Edmonton fans were saying the exact same sort of things years ago, but about their forward core. Problem was, they didn't develop them properly and had no clue how to draft or develop defense, goaltenders or two-way players. Now we're like a mirror-opposite version, a bunch if young D and a couple of good goalies with a coach/system that's not really right for their continued development, and a total ****show when it comes to forwards. You must have at least some semblance of balanced team construction to be successful in today's NHL, but our "culture" is stuck in the grind-it-out 90s just like the Oilers culture is stuck in the freewheeling 80s. Neither of these mentalities are proving to be anything other than a disaster.

I think they are playing grind it out hockey because the forwards suck. You hear Jagr say "..if it was a different system it would be worse...". You hear Elias say "...I wish we played more freely..." I think they have a system they have to play just to remain marginally competitive.

The culture is about discipline and team-first. I'm ok with that. They really need impact forwards. I see your point and I hope you are wrong, but I cannot say it's not a fear I share.

 

[MikeF]

Larsson looked really good in the game Friday night for Albany. He should of played last night.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Larsson looked really good in the game Friday night for Albany. He should of played last night.

Agree. I'm sure he will be in vs Carolina Tuesday night.

 

[Wingman77]

It may sure as hell be a small sample size to look at, but KK has been more consistent in his small sample size stretch of games than Cory has looked for any stretch this season which is a bit worrisome. I've held back from saying anything about Cory as a result of wanting to keep giving him chances to get a hot stretch going, but it just hasn't happened and we are about halfway through now.

Throw statistics out the window, especially W/L which is irrelevant, he just has not looked good on a consistent enough basis

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

It may sure as hell be a small sample size to look at, but KK has been more consistent in his small sample size stretch of games than Cory has looked for any stretch this season which is a bit worrisome. I've held back from saying anything about Cory as a result of wanting to keep giving him chances to get a hot stretch going, but it just hasn't happened and we are about halfway through now.

Throw statistics out the window, especially W/L which is irrelevant, he just has not looked good on a consistent enough basis

I'll admit that he's not been lights out this year, but I think people are really overlooking the backslide our defense has taken as of late. It's a total gong show at times, with glaringly obvious mistakes left and right. I think this has a lot to do with Cory's performance, much of which relies on him being confident in those around him, which in turn greatly affects his own self-confidence. I think he's an emotional and highly self-critical player, rather than an iceman who can just shrug everything off like the Marty of yore who we all grew so accustomed to. To me, this mostly stems from ongoing personnel/developmental issues with the D, which is my primary problem with the coaching situation.

 

[Unknown Caller]

It may sure as hell be a small sample size to look at, but KK has been more consistent in his small sample size stretch of games than Cory has looked for any stretch this season which is a bit worrisome. I've held back from saying anything about Cory as a result of wanting to keep giving him chances to get a hot stretch going, but it just hasn't happened and we are about halfway through now.

Throw statistics out the window, especially W/L which is irrelevant, he just has not looked good on a consistent enough basis

Not surprising, only because I've always thought Kinkaid has the potential to be a top goalie in the league one day. Not saying it will happen, but he has the potential. Even when 99% of this board said that Wedgewood was clearly the better prospect, I said Kinkaid would be the better goalie. I think we have a legitimate future starter on our hands and this could develop into a Vancouver situation down the road. Not definite, but a distinct possibility.

 

[devilsblood]

It may sure as hell be a small sample size to look at, but KK has been more consistent in his small sample size stretch of games than Cory has looked for any stretch this season which is a bit worrisome. I've held back from saying anything about Cory as a result of wanting to keep giving him chances to get a hot stretch going, but it just hasn't happened and we are about halfway through now.

Throw statistics out the window, especially W/L which is irrelevant, he just has not looked good on a consistent enough basis

Def a small sample, and I'm not laying any blame at Schneid's for this mess, I think he's played well enough.

However....

If Kink does turn into a good NHL goalie, while Schneid's never turns into an elite goalie, it does make that trade, and then the contract, look very shaky.

Add in the big Russian returning to form post surgery? Could be one that complain about for years.

 

[devilsblood]

So B. Lemieux has 25 goals in 27 games. Only 10 assists which tempers the enthusiasm, but that goal total is eye catching.

 

[Wingman77]

Without a doubt very little of our struggles have had to do with Cory.

We could be getting shutout every night and Cory could still be playing fantastic, but in addition to our inconsistent scoring, Cory hasn't been consistent either.

 

[Traitor Zach]

I'm going to council some patience. The drafting of forwards has been crap, but the plan to draft and build from the goalie out is under way. Severson, Merrill, Gelinas, Larsson and hopefully Santini..maybe Helgeson, Burlon...they are going to be the foundation.

This season is a disaster a coaching change is not going to save it. Parlay what you have for some assets and get those forwards. Greene, Merrill, Severson (if he projects), Larsson, Gelinas (if he projects), Santini...you have to psyched about those 6. Yes, they've made some mistakes and PDB can be grating at times...and yes, the AARP Devils are a pain to watch, but I predict that they are not too far away.

They may not be expansion level "far away", but this team is pretty far away from being even a playoff contender. Also, while I like our defensive prospects, I wouldn't go penciling them all in as studs or building blocks just yet. Larsson needs to prove himself consistently over a full year, Gelinas has major holes in his defensive game. Santini we haven't even see play above NCAA. So perhaps some patience/prudence is needed on your end here as well. Merrill has also taken a step back this year and Greene is doing his usual one good year, one bad year routine again it seems. Some of this is obviously due to the whole team being a mess, but still. Not trying to be snarky, just trying to preach the same principle in a different area.

I agree on your overall principle of counseling patience, but patience can only be provided once we see the verbal acknowledgement of what this team is from management and the accompanying moves start being made by the deadline and then again this offseason and into next year and next offseason.

Also, the right move is for Lou to step down and to have Conte either step aside or be removed. Front office change is paramount and essential. I have zero faith in this management group to get the ship righted.

 

[devilsblood]

You know what is also a big issue here that has been noted but has been a bit hidden by this whole mess this year.

Travis Zajac. 8 points? Our worst fears, that were, I thought, alleviated by his play last year, have seemingly become reality. We are paying a 3rd line defensive centerman, $5.75 mil for the next 7 years.

If he were producing near the pace we saw from him last year with Jagr(which I'm sure would also help Jagr's production), our season, and the future, might not seem so bleak.

 

[RNCDevil]

They may not be expansion level "far away"... I have zero faith in this management group to get the ship righted.

Merrill - I think he's been better lately. I know he got roasted by Ovie. This is his second season and my biggest complaint is that he loves to give Gelinas hospital passes.

Gelinas - I think he's been good defensively relative to last year. Improvement is a great sign. His wrister is still better than anything Greene puts up.

Larsson - He's still not the greatest with pivots and lateral movement, but again, he looks so much better this year.

Severson - He's holding his own as a top pairing d-man. Let that sink in.

Early in the season I felt like they were giving up coverage goals. Now, I think they are giving up off-the-rush goals. I really blame a lot of that on the old and lazy forwards and the ridiculous amount of time they have to spend on the PK every game.

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

You know what is also a big issue here that has been noted but has been a bit hidden by this whole mess this year.

Travis Zajac. 8 points? Our worst fears, that were, I thought, alleviated by his play last year, have seemingly become reality. We are paying a 3rd line defensive centerman, $5.75 mil for the next 7 years.

If he were producing near the pace we saw from him last year with Jagr(which I'm sure would also help Jagr's production), our season, and the future, might not seem so bleak.

This is indeed a huge problem. Unfortunately we really need him, because we have no center depth to speak of. And his contract is almost unmovable.

 

[Traitor Zach]

Merrill - I think he's been better lately. I know he got roasted by Ovie. This is his second season and my biggest complaint is that he loves to give Gelinas hospital passes.

Gelinas - I think he's been good defensively relative to last year. Improvement is a great sign. His wrister is still better than anything Greene puts up.

Larsson - He's still not the greatest with pivots and lateral movement, but again, he looks so much better this year.

Severson - He's holding his own as a top pairing d-man. Let that sink in.

Early in the season I felt like they were giving up coverage goals. Now, I think they are giving up off-the-rush goals. I really blame a lot of that on the old and lazy forwards and the ridiculous amount of time they have to spend on the PK every game.

I actually concur with that last point and it's one of the major points/reasons I have soured on Jagr recently. Outside of the occasional PP, he's been a negative.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Larsson looked really good in the game Friday night for Albany. He should of played last night.

Back to back nights after a long stretch of illness and not practicing? I think we know why he didn't play if you set aside the tin foil hats on the subject.

Harrold played 16:43 last night, the least minutes of the D until Helgeson got into his fight and sat the extra 5 minutes and only got about 15 minutes. I'm sure Larsson will be back in next game.

 

[devilsblood]

Merrill - I think he's been better lately. I know he got roasted by Ovie. This is his second season and my biggest complaint is that he loves to give Gelinas hospital passes.

Gelinas - I think he's been good defensively relative to last year. Improvement is a great sign. His wrister is still better than anything Greene puts up.

Larsson - He's still not the greatest with pivots and lateral movement, but again, he looks so much better this year.

Severson - He's holding his own as a top pairing d-man. Let that sink in.

Early in the season I felt like they were giving up coverage goals. Now, I think they are giving up off-the-rush goals. I really blame a lot of that on the old and lazy forwards and the ridiculous amount of time they have to spend on the PK every game.

I think Gelinas has shown marked improvement over last year. He was the king of brain dead plays last year. Haven't seen many at all this year. Offense has dried up which kind of dampens the optimism, but I think cleaning up the negative aspects of his game was a hurdle that had to be cleared.

 

[devilsblood]

Back to back nights after a long stretch of illness and not practicing? I think we know why he didn't play if you set aside the tin foil hats on the subject.

Harrold played 16:43 last night, the least minutes of the D until Helgeson got into his fight and sat the extra 5 minutes and only got about 15 minutes. I'm sure Larsson will be back in next game.

The back to back aspect is prob the key factor, one that has not really been talked about. Good call.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

truth is only our frustration with the situation is calling for something to be done quickly.

bringing in a new coach immediately will not turn this around enough to make a run at playoffs.
and the team will not make trade to bring in nhl ready players.

so truth is lou should make trades of vets when their value is highest to a particular team which likely will be closer to trade deadline.

bringing in a new to coach to start with a forward group that will mot likely look very different next year is questionable but who knows..

Timely to me means at the appropriate time, which I think varies for different aspects of fixing this team. I don't think that this team has a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs, so, honestly, I wouldn't make changes with the short term goal of making the playoffs, since that ship has already sailed away from the port with the team not on board. I'd rather make whatever changes with an eye toward the long term future of this team.

I am in favor of bringing in a new coach even if it doesn't result in more wins, just because I am honestly afraid of the words I hear coming out of Pete's and players' mouths after losses. There's an acceptance of losing and just a delusion that terrible, embarrassing efforts were "good" that I think it amounts to a dangerous culture at the very least aided and abetted by Pete if not outright created by him. I'd like a coach to be brought in who will take a less lassiez faire approach to losing. The losses might be inevitable, but this attitude toward them isn't, and it's this attitude that might pose the biggest threat to our young players.

About trading veterans, I don't think that has to be done now. I think that should be done whenever their value is highest to maximize the assets that we can get for them.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I think Gelinas has shown marked improvement over last year. He was the king of brain dead plays last year. Haven't seen many at all this year. Offense has dried up which kind of dampens the optimism, but I think cleaning up the negative aspects of his game was a hurdle that had to be cleared.

Gelinas had a nagging wrist injury for a while and wasn't taking his Gelly bomb slappers. He's better now and has been unleashing them the last few games. His scoring will bump up again IMO.

I hope.

 

[NJD Kula]

I'm not trying to start a giant debate here but, if Kinkaid pans out as a starter (and thus far, he's been more impressive than Cory), that makes the trade for Schneider even worse. I was not a fan of the deal the moment it was announced, will be very interesting if it turns out to be completely useless.

Agree - trading bonafide assets for "premier" goalies rarely seems to work out, especially when there appear to be a glut of goalies on the market over the past few years. The Ducks seemingly churn out different Vezina candidates every season.

Def a small sample, and I'm not laying any blame at Schneid's for this mess, I think he's played well enough.

However....

If Kink does turn into a good NHL goalie, while Schneid's never turns into an elite goalie, it does make that trade, and then the contract, look very shaky.

Add in the big Russian returning to form post surgery? Could be one that complain about for years.

Don't think you could have handed the team to Kinkaid but the Devils didn't fully test Schneider before paying out all this money.

The coach is mostly to blame for burning Cory and the team to the ground with a laundry list of bad decisions this season.

The loser mentality needs to be purged and the youngsters and our franchise goalie, like it or not, need a confidence boost. Fire Deboer!