Except there are flames fans who actually think there is a possibility that they get Nemec.
Which part do you disagree with?
LeBrun: Devils may trade for Markstrom without salary retention
- Thread starter viper0220
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Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
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I really wish you hadn't made an account here, you already make cap friendly unbearable.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Scrantonicity 2
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Fitzgerald sure seems like an amateur GM lately. Injuries aside he's fumbling their season a bit. Today he spends a few minutes tearing down Holtz as a player days before the deadline when you're potentially moving him? Talk about building up value for your players! Then all these weird leaks to the media to turn up pressure on other organizations... odd stuff.
I think he's a little out of his depth at this job. Jersey's tires are spinning this deadline. What direction are they really going in? I dont think even they know. Which is concerning if youre a Devils fan.
I think he's a little out of his depth at this job. Jersey's tires are spinning this deadline. What direction are they really going in? I dont think even they know. Which is concerning if youre a Devils fan.
3rd+5th for Zadorov: Loss
No 1st for Tanev: Factual
Toffoli has more goals, points, and better defensive metrics despite Yegor shooting at a rate 40% higher than his career average (and overall 8 goals above expectation).
Nobody will now trade for Backlund because of that extension. Sean Monahan just got a 1st, if you traded rental Backlund there would have been another 1st there.
Markstrom objectively just came out in the media and bashed how his front office and ownership handled things.
Does hanifin have an extension?
Sometimes I forget that flames fans still haven't realized that Kuzmenko is a cap dump
Honzek objectively has mediocre WHL numbers
Are Calgary fans still convinced that leaks are coming from NJDs side lmao
Zippy316
aka Zippo
I can understand acquiring Markstrom and shoring up the goalie position right now. The market is NJ and that’s it. If a deal is done before Friday, it’s on NJs terms. Come off-season you might have other suitors youre bidding against.
To me, it only makes sense if the Devils can compile some assets from Toffoli and another one of the UFAs, use those extra assets to deal for Markstrom, and call it a redistribution of assets to address a need. Now you have your goalie to acclimate to the team this year, can still kinda push for the playoffs, and you addressed goaltending for the next two years.
You wouldn’t be totally throwing in the towel, but you’d be using your assets wisely. If he’s re-signing Toffoli and then trading Holtz + picks for Markstrom, I’m not going to be too happy as a Devils fan.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
I think most Devils fans will agree with you, Hughes has been playing hero puck way too much this season. He's shown a lack of maturity that's rubbing a lot of fans the wrong way.
The frustration with Holtz is not because we think he's some phenomenal player, but because of the inconsistency from the coaching staff and how they hold players accountable. Dawson Mercer has been dreadful this season, worse than Holtz, but gets far more opportunities than Holtz does and never sees any consequences. Luke Hughes hit the rookie wall a month ago, but Nemec is the one sitting tonight. Players like Bahl and Smith get to make mistake after mistake and never learn their lesson, while guys like Colin Miller (who has actually been quite decent in his role) get scratched.
At this point I think most Devils fans are happy to table the goalie discussion until the draft because there's a LOT of housekeeping that needs to be done internally. Ruff was in over his head and his lack of accountability has lead to some major issues in the room that need to get sorted out.
What’s odd is you keep being up “weird leaks” to the media, when it’s from alleged “insiders” who post on a Flames board and contradicts what legit insiders have said. But go ahead and believe whatever BigDaddyFlamesFan69 posted over what Lebrun, Friedman, and Seravalli have said.
He's just a mainboard guy who makes inflammatory statements to get a reaction. Don't waste a single brain cell on him.
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Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
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what? you may be the only team able to add a goalie right now, but it's the Devils that keep coming to teh Flames, not vice versa, the Devils have 0 leverage right now because we don't have to trade Markstrom
1 bidder
34 year old goalie who over the past 4 years has been a ticking time bomb of inconsistency.
Trying to sell an old, expensive goalie in the offseason always works out.
This post will be a bit of a book. I figured I'd post my philosophy on evaluating GMs and team management. First I'll respond to the above.
Zadorov: You're correct, we lost that trade. Rumor has it he became a pariah in the locker room. How much did we lose it by? I think it's fair to say Zadorov was worth (in a vacuum) somewhere around a 2nd and 3rd round pick. We got the 3rd and the 2nd was a 5th. It's a loss, but not a massive one.
Toffoli: Would I take Toffoli ahead of Sharangovich? Yes, but not by a ton. Would I take one year of Toffoli ahead of 2 years of Sharangovich? No, I'd take the 2 years. You guys might be able to re-sign Toffoli, we couldn't. This is not a loss for Conroy. It's a win for our franchise. It might be a win for you guys if you can get Toffoli to sign a decent value deal.
Sharangovich is a nice middle six player. He's not a core piece. I have no issue walking him to UFA.
Tanev: There were apparently a couple of 1st round picks out there for Tanev. Both came with multi-year cap dumps. I don't love the value here, but it's not terrible.
I don't know how not being able to extend Hanifin is Conroy's fault. I love Hanifin's game, I'd like to sign him up to 8M per season. But Conroy can't make Calgary become Florida.
I think the Lindholm trade was an upper deck homerun. We completely disagree there. Brzustewicz, 1st and cap dump was my dream return for Lindholm. He exceeded that. I don't like Kuzmenko as a player, but he's entertaining and we aren't winning anyway next season.
I hated the Honzek pick. I'm on record saying it was a bad one. Should have been ASP or Oliver Moore there, especially when we are so deep at middle 6 wing. I do think he did well in the 2nd and 3rd round. Our 7th rounder could be the steal of that round.
On GMs and management:
A GM is essentially making bets with foundational information. NJ made a bet that their goaltending would be sufficient with a young blueline. I think the biggest market inefficiency in the NHL used to be undersized forwards. Teams adjusted and they are being valued correctly now. Then it was the smallish defenseman. Teams adjusted just in the past 2 seasons. They are being valued correctly now.
The current market inefficiency is goaltending. When high end starters like Bob, Vasy ect were getting 10M per season it made sense to go with a tandem of mid range goalies who you would hope to get one of them hot. Carolina kind of pioneered this. However, now quality starters are in that 6-8M range. Goaltending is the most volatile position in the sport. You know Jack Hughes is going to be PPG or better. I view it like this:
The top end of the goalie market you get 3 good seasons, 1 average and 1 bad every 5 years.
Mid range guys give you one bad, one good and one average.
Low end guys give you 1 good season every 3 seasons.
I'm saying Fitz made a bad bet based on the goalie market of today.
3rd and a 5th for Zadorov, a border line $3.5 M #4 D who is actually better on the bottom pair with no retention and 3 other higher salary pending UFA you may need to retain on NOT a LOSS maybe not a home run but definitely not a loss
Tanev - no 1st BUT also no cap dump with term in return either. He could have done better on the conditional 3rd for sure
Toffoli - you don't like the trade that's fine BUT it wasn't bad either it was kind of Meh
Backlund - they extended him in the hopes that Hanifin and Lindholm change course and decide to extend.
Honzek was not a reach when drafted just because he hasn't had a great D+1 year doesn't make it a bad pick yet.
Markstrom is a head scratcher...there is something behind the scenes with this that would bring focus to this. My gut feeling is Markstrom asked for a trade and agreed to keep it quiet. Nothing else makes sense, if Calgary was going for a quick retool and also keep trying to compete this season, trading Markstrom doesn't fit those scenario's at all.
Hanifin was never going to extend.
Kuzmenko - i think everyone knows he was a cap dump. Its just he was one with potential home run upside if he clicked in Calgary.
I agree with most of this.
The final point of goalie volatility is in my opinion why he shouldn't have traded for them. If the rumoured asks for goalies are true, then quite frankly I'd argue the opposite. Individual goaltenders are OVERVALUED based on these trade asks. Frankly I'd rather go out and get Marcus Pettersson before any goalie, if he is in any way available. Trading the house for a 34 year old is the kind of move that could ruin a window. What happens if Markstrom plays like he did last year? or in 20-21?
I'd rather fitz be patient then get fleeced. With all the injuries, and inexperience in the Dcore (a necessary thing in order to open up a long term window) this season is NOT the one to go all in on.
Personally I think Conroy could have come out of this year with:
1st for Toffoli (think about where you'd be now with our current 1st in the offseason)
1st for Tanev
1st+for lindholm
1st for Backlund
1st for Markstrom
1st+ for Hanifin
and you'll likely now come out of it acquiring 2 1sts instead of 6, and your own 1st being much lower in the standings.
Is Yegor, holding onto 34 year old Markstrom, 35 year old Backlund, and some secondary pieces worth that? I don't think so
Also he TRIED to extend Lindholm with a BIG contract offer that would have been a disaster before trading him. I'm not giving him credit for Lindholm declining.
I also forgot to mention that he tried to offer Elias Lindholm a massive contract (9 millx8 years) that would have been a disaster if he signed it. As well as a long term contract to Toffoli. If they accepted those offers he would have put the team in mediocrity purgatory.
His best two moves are moves he didn't even want to make. He wanted to make much worse moves instead
Come on. Six 1sts was never going to happen. Given the mandate to remain competitive, there was always going to be players coming back. Let’s at least try to be realistic here
I just think you can squander a good core with C level goalies and gambling. Carolina's close to the end and has done just that. I'm saying getting 4 out of 5 years of quality goaltending with some of them being elite is vastly preferrable to bet on than getting 1 out of 3. If Fitz doesn't learn from this mistake and I was the owner he'd be looking for work.
I don't know if you understand who Backlund is to the Flames. He's not an elite player, so sometimes people don't get who he is in our market. He's arguably (Gio being the other) done the most for our franchise in the community ever. He's a pros pro. If ever there was someone you want as a example to young players in a rebuild it's Mikael Backlund.
I think there's 2 courses you can go down. I would have kept Backlund, Coleman, Andersson and Weegar. Traded everyone else. I would have signed Hanifin if I could have too. But Conroy has to deal with Edwards. That's not an easy thing to do. Treliving threw in the towel. He killed the Markstrom deal. He has killed 4 deals now for sure, maybe more that we don't know about.
Sean Monahan got a 1st. Backlund would have if retained and not extended.
Tanev had a 1st on the table
Lindholm, Hanifin 100% will
Toffoli 100% could have gotten a 1st (I suspect he chose Yegor over a 1st)
Markstrom for a 1st is apparently on the table (and apparently MUCH more according to flames fans but Conroy looks like he's going to miss out on that)
Conroy offered elias Lindholm a 9 mill x 8 year extension. He only began trying to trade him after that was declined. If Conroy had his way you'd be stuck with that contract. Very lucky that Lindholm said no
This has nothing to do with what I said. The value of those players was not at all part of the discussion
I think fitzy has made a few mistakes.
Ruff over Brunette: although I can't think of a GM who would replace the coach after a season like that. Would have been ballsy
Vanacek trade:
Not trading Graves as a rental: unfortunately the team was playing too well. But I would have made the move and brought Luke in earlier last year.
However he has a track record of excellent moves to counteract that, in the draft and via trades.
Keep in mind the devils are still among the youngest teams in hockey
I don't really think that there's any confusion with regards to the deadline. I mean, targeting Markstrom or Ullmark, those aren't rental acquisitions so they aren't just about this year. I see no reason to buy a goalie now, but I only hate it if it prevents them from selling. The problem there is that Toffoli is really the only piece the devils have for a rental (colin miller is an afterthought) and he's made it very clear that he wants to re-sign Toffoli, so again, that's a decision based on thinking beyond this year.
That said, I don't agree with re-signing Toffoli and I'll be curious to see if they don't trade him at the deadline and don't have a deal in place with him. I think that would be a big miss there unless they are close enough behind the scenes (which we may not find out about until Toffoli actually signs somewhere).
Update: markstrom is at an 0.878 since the initial trade fell through
MakoSlade
Registered User
It's like he actually was traded to the Devils..
