GDT: Devils @ Hurricanes - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

[My3Sons]

I remember Mike Brodeur though.

I recall Richard, he was called "King Richard" if memory serves.

 

[Aurinko]

We’ve scored way more than the other team this year with most players out there. But since he’s such an impactful player, maybe it’s best to us him as the 3C to carry his own line? What do you think, Mr. Haula?

I don't mind getting called Mr Haula, since this is the exact same discussion I'm having every year when he isn't producing points even though his lines are.

Well like you see from the chart, you can put him to any line and he will perform. It would be quite a coincidence if he would just again and again end up in situations where other players carry the line. Trust me, the guy is a quality team player that has no problem playing 1st line or 4th line role. He has had good winning records since the juniors, being in frozen four, NEVER missing NHL playoffs even though playing in 7 different teams(!) and "somehow" just ending up to the teams that win the beauty summer league year after year. Beauty league is played with adjusted rules and fewer men, so the chance that he is getting carried by team mates is even less there.

 

[glenwo2]

Are you holding Dom Luszczyszyn's kid hostage or something?

Ask me no questions....

...but I'll still tell you lies.

(wait..that's not how it goes...)

 

[NJDevs26]

But technically, that doesn't mean he plays good defense. Those stats can also show the puck is on his (or his linemates's) stick more and they generate more offense zone time and chances vs. goals against. I mean you can infer either way, but we all know he and his line have the puck in ozone more, so yes it generates less goals against, etc, but not because their defense is good, but more because their offense/pressure is so good.

If they want to infer that is defense, i guess yes, but that is not really touting he defensively is best in league by defensive play.

I'd say Hughes a better forechecker than Bratt... and hounds better...

(Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bratt is BAD at defense, I just find that interpretation of that meaning he is best defensive forward very misleading)

I find it hard to believe anyone is an elite defensive player when they don’t play PK

Cue Triumph or whomever saying PK is a separate skill and somehow not indicative of who backchecks well

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I don't mind getting called Mr Haula, since this is the exact same discussion I'm having every year when he isn't producing points even though his lines are.

Well like you see from the chart, you can put him to any line and he will perform. It would be quite a coincidence if he would just again and again end up in situations where other players carry the line. Trust me, the guy is a quality team player that has no problem playing 1st line or 4th line role. He has had good winning records since the juniors, being in frozen four, NEVER missing NHL playoffs even though playing in 7 different teams(!) and "somehow" just ending up to the teams that win the beauty summer league year after year. Beauty league is played with adjusted rules and fewer men, so the chance that he is getting carried by team mates is even less there.

He’s a solid 3rd liner. I would rather not staple him to one of the best players in the NHL when he’s totally incapable of scoring a goal at the moment. If he stops being the worst finisher in the NHL, maybe give him another go. We can use his playmaking to get Sharangovich on the 3rd line.

 

[glenwo2]

We’re 4 ahead of the Canes in ROW.

Massive.

Somebody mentioned that ROW is no longer a metric that's being used. Only regular wins.

 

[Bleedred]

I recall Richard, he was called "King Richard" if memory serves.

I don't know why they called him King other than his first name was Richard, but he wasn't really all that good.

I'm not really quite old enough to have watched him play. I was casually watching hockey as a child when he was still playing. For some reason my mind thinks it can remember him playing for Hartford in the 1988 playoffs, but maybe it's a mirage and I don't actually remember that.

His career numbers look a bit like Cam Ward or Bill Ranford, only without a Conn Smythe and Cup like those two guys had. He did have a pretty fantastic 1982 playoffs and run to the cup finals though. He only played roughly half as many games as those guys did too.

It looks like he was a pretty solid to good goalie early on, but violently fell off a cliff at 30 years old and that probably skews his career performance, which was solid up until then.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Kovy was good at the PK; but I wouldn’t consider him a good player in his own end.

 

[MasterofGrond]

He’s a solid 3rd liner. I would rather not staple him to one of the best players in the NHL when he’s totally incapable of scoring a goal at the moment. If he stops being the worst finisher in the NHL, maybe give him another go. We can use his playmaking to get Sharangovich on the 3rd line.

to be fair he's only like the 4th worst finisher in the entire NHL

 

[Aurinko]

He’s a solid 3rd liner. I would rather not staple him to one of the best players in the NHL when he’s totally incapable of scoring a goal at the moment. If he stops being the worst finisher in the NHL, maybe give him another go. We can use his playmaking to get Sharangovich on the 3rd line.

Yes he's a solid 3rd liner, but he has also proved he can play the 1st line and pp. It's up to Sharangovich-Hughes-Mercer to prove they can provide something better than that, especially since last year they had 46% goals% witch is just unbearable if the plan is to win games.

 

[jkrdevil]

I don't know why they called him King other than his first name was Richard, but he wasn't really all that good.

I'm not really quite old enough to have watched him play. I was casually watching hockey as a child when he was still playing. For some reason my mind thinks it can remember him playing for Hartford in the 1988 playoffs, but maybe it's a mirage and I don't actually remember that.

His career numbers look a bit like Cam Ward or Bill Ranford, only without a Conn Smythe and Cup like those two guys had. He did have a pretty fantastic 1982 playoffs and run to the cup finals though. He only played roughly half as many games as those guys did too.

It looks like he was a pretty solid to good goalie early on, but violently fell off a cliff at 30 years old and that probably skews his career performance, which was solid up until then.

I’m m going to guess it is because he put up a .918 sv percentage in 1982 playoffs leading an under .500 Canucks team to the Final. For context that regular season only 1 goalie had a sv pct. above .900. It was also the season Gretzky scored 92 goals and the Canucks avoided the Oilers in the playoffs because the even worse Kings upset them in the Miracle on Manchester.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yes he's a solid 3rd liner, but he has also proved he can play the 1st line and pp. It's up to Sharangovich-Hughes-Mercer to prove they can provide something better than that, especially since last year they had 46% goals% witch is just unbearable if the plan is to win games.

View attachment 633549

He’s a solid 1st liner in that he doesn’t get in Jack’s way and crater the line. With or without Haula, Jack Hughes is all-world. I wouldn’t put that trio together. If I was going to put Jack with Sharangovich or Mercer, I would have Tatar or Palat as the other wing.

 

[Guttersniped]

 

[HBK27]

Kings have been hot when Copley has been in net for them. He's due to sit however, hope they sit him versus us and not when they play San Jose.

Kings have 2 days off before we play them and 4 days off after. We're most definitely going to see Copley.

 

[Guttersniped]

Not be a wet blanket, but what the hell is going on with the poweplay? Aside from the shorties, even when they get settled they're just passing it back and forth at the the top of the zone.

Have they just lost all their confidence? Also, I still don't understand why Bratt and Jack can't gain the zone with control nearly every time they rush.

TIRED:

WIRED:

 

[TBF1972]

Hamilton is a bit Seversonesque in that his gaffes are easy to see and visually unappealing. That said he’s not a shutdown guy and at times NJ asks a lot from him defensively which isn’t his best attribute.

he gets paid 9m. more than double than severson. so holding him to higher standards should be kind of expected.

i said numerous times dougie is overpaid. his transition defense isn't good. if i would rather haver severson at 6m than hamilton for 9m for the remaining term of hamiltons contract.

 

[Blackjack]

TIRED:
View attachment 633551

WIRED:
View attachment 633552

Don’t you ever post those charts again. The mods here are way too tolerant of obscene material.

 

[Triumph]

I find it hard to believe anyone is an elite defensive player when they don’t play PK

Cue Triumph or whomever saying PK is a separate skill and somehow not indicative of who backchecks well

We watched Bobby Holik here for almost a decade. Holik did not kill penalties. He was an elite defensive player.

A player can be bad defensively and good on the PK (Kovalchuk), a player can also be great defensively and yet not used on the PK (Holik). It's a completely different game state. I bet Hughes would be a great penalty killer, he's not put out there because he's better used elsewhere. Likewise with Bratt who was killing penalties at age 19.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I find it hard to believe anyone is an elite defensive player when they don’t play PK

Cue Triumph or whomever saying PK is a separate skill and somehow not indicative of who backchecks well

That was my line of thinking as well... well it doesn't tell whole picture, but it can be a huge indicator as well

In general I found that stat reference (and then to proclaim on air) to say Jesper Bratt is #1 best defensive player in league is quite a stretch/disengaged from reality of his play. Forget about intra team comparisons, what about....you know, Bergeron, or any other Selke'-esque forward etc.

Take nothing away from Bratt (he is decent defensively), but holy jumpin' as Pang would say.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I don't mind getting called Mr Haula, since this is the exact same discussion I'm having every year when he isn't producing points even though his lines are.

Well like you see from the chart, you can put him to any line and he will perform. It would be quite a coincidence if he would just again and again end up in situations where other players carry the line. Trust me, the guy is a quality team player that has no problem playing 1st line or 4th line role. He has had good winning records since the juniors, being in frozen four, NEVER missing NHL playoffs even though playing in 7 different teams(!) and "somehow" just ending up to the teams that win the beauty summer league year after year. Beauty league is played with adjusted rules and fewer men, so the chance that he is getting carried by team mates is even less there.

If Haula could get his goals in order. I wouldnt mind seeing him be our modern Brylin equivalent ...

 

[BostonDevil]

We watched Bobby Holik here for almost a decade. Holik did not kill penalties. He was an elite defensive player.

A player can be bad defensively and good on the PK (Kovalchuk), a player can also be great defensively and yet not used on the PK (Holik). It's a completely different game state. I bet Hughes would be a great penalty killer, he's not put out there because he's better used elsewhere. Likewise with Bratt who was killing penalties at age 19.

I can tell from experience. When I wasn’t the guy actually in the box, I would always be on the PK. It’s a different mindset than being positionally sound within the normal back and forth of 5v5.

PK was always easy to me. Be in position. Get the puck. Ice the puck.

Another thing that always bugged me about the PK is that I don’t understand how they are getting clearing attempts blocked at the blue line. Even at 15 years old on the PK, I would try to hit the scoreboard or the ceiling of the arena on clearing attempts. Nobody’s batting those down. Why can’t these pros do something similar with 100000000x the talent?

That concludes story time with BostonDevil…

 

[Camille the Eel]

he gets paid 9m. more than double than severson. so holding him to higher standards should be kind of expected.

i said numerous times dougie is overpaid. his transition defense isn't good. if i would rather haver severson at 6m than hamilton for 9m for the remaining term of hamiltons contract.

He's on a pace for 18 goals and nearly 70 points and if he produces like that, paying even his free agent premium salary is value added to the Devils. But he has to score because that's what he brings; his defense is mostly average when it's not sometimes just downright poor like when defending a 2 on 1.

On the power play, what I hate most is the split second hesitation nearly every time he gets the puck at the top of the diamond. He's moving it better this year I think and also striding and getting into his shot better when it's there. But still, when he's passed the puck, he doesn't move it fluidly. The puck stops on his stick, even for only a one count, while he looks around.

Compare him to Burns, who seems to know what he's going to do with the puck before it gets to him in those situations. And who will half the time not even stop the pass coming to him but simply either redirect it or give it a little sweep (even behind his back) to angle it to the forward on the other half board. This when swinging the puck across the top of the formation. These are touch passes.

Hamilton, in that situation, stops it and you can almost see him thinking, "oh gee, where do I go with it now?" And that's all it takes for the play to become static. Hamilton never makes a touch pass. He always stops the puck and then moves it.

Where he's fluid is when he's skating, particularly forward, and passing and shooting the puck, particularly when either half slapping it or letting his wrist shot go. Superior wrist shot, one of the best from a defenseman in the league.

 

[My3Sons]

he gets paid 9m. more than double than severson. so holding him to higher standards should be kind of expected.

i said numerous times dougie is overpaid. his transition defense isn't good. if i would rather haver severson at 6m than hamilton for 9m for the remaining term of hamiltons contract.

Sure. And guess whose fault it is he is overpaid? Is it Hamilton’s? Is raging at him to be better defensively than he has ever been warranted? If you sign a guy who is what he is and then that’s what he is and you wanted something else I see that as a you problem. Blame Fitz and the market. Rage at them. I’d agree in principal with complaining Fitz paid the going rate but someone who’s entire body of work is on public display and who lives up to that body of work isn’t at fault if they are overpaid willingly by the team. Now, if you wanted to tell me that being picked first overall requires that you score a subjective amount of points and have some other subjective undefined impact that will change depending upon the circumstances that’s completely justified and reasonable.

 

[Guttersniped]

he gets paid 9m. more than double than severson. so holding him to higher standards should be kind of expected.

i said numerous times dougie is overpaid. his transition defense isn't good. if i would rather haver severson at 6m than hamilton for 9m for the remaining term of hamiltons contract.

Keeping Severson vs Hamilton is a thought exercise, it’s not happening. He’s also getting more than 6m.

Morgan Reilly got 8 years/7.5m, Sergachev got 8 years/8.5m. Reilly has more production and Sergachev was younger but both are LHD.

Parayko, RHD, got 8 years/6.5m and he hit his career high of 35 points again last season.

Travis Sanheim, LHD, got 8 years/6.25m and his career high is 35 points too, he hit it in 2018-19 and since then he’s been less productive.

Weeger, RHD, just signed a 8 year/6.25m. He was technically up for more but he’s a guy Florida never wanted to pay either.

Lindholm, LHD, got 8 years/6.5m from Boston. This will be the first year he scores 30 points since 2017-18 and his career high is 34.

So Severson’s absolute minimum is at least 8 years/6.25m but I would actually put it at 8 years/6.5m because of his past production (46 point career high), him being a RHD and the weak UFA defenseman market.

I will add here that while I have a lot of affection for Damon I would feel a sudden urge to hurl myself off the GWB if we signed him to a 8 year deal for that $.

Hamilton has 5 years left after this and his last year is structured so it can be bought out/ or can be dumped. Hamilton is only 1 year 2 months older than Damon so a three year longer deal, even if it’s cheaper, is actually not more appealing for me.

For me, while Hamilton’s not playing well at the moment Severson was trash at the start of the year so it evens out. It would be delightful if everyone played great all the time but it doesn’t work that way and if enough guys play well that we win I’m ok with that.

If Hamilton ends the year with 60-something points he’ll have done plenty in helping us win games.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Hamilton is a possession monster. Possession is the most important basic skill in hockey. He's gonna get beat on the occasional misplayed 2 on 1. But there's a lot fewer 2 on 1s when he's on the ice than when other guys are.

Complaining about it is like complaining that your Ferrari gets bad gas mileage. It's something you should keep in mind and occasionally work around, but it doesn't make him a non-elite player and doesn't mean he isn't living up to his fat contract.