Devils Goaltending

[My3Sons]

I would take him too, he's got age certainly going for him as well. He hasn't been as good as I think a lot of people act like he has been, but he's also not even 25, so his entire career so far has been played in his early 20's.

I don't see him as elite yet, I kind of see him in the same tier as Demko, Ullmark, Kuemper and Markstrom (Markstrom is out with one more BAD season though) as the good goalies in the league, but not really elite.

I think really the only elite goalies in the league are the two Russian's across the river, the Russian across the bay from me, and Saros and Hellebuyck.

The other guys are in that tier. Swayman may also be in that tier, but still has a limited run of time and has only been used as a 1b/backup thus far, unlike Oettinger, who has been a clear cut number one for several years now.

Almost everyone that I haven't named is in the JAG category, which is pretty big, but the few leftover after that are in the BAD category. We all know who I'd put in that one. Jones, Mrazek, the former #29 of the Devils (not 1992 Brodeur) and there's probably a couple other guys I'm forgetting. Grubauer is certainly pretty nearly in this category at this point and Binnington is certainly getting there. Kahkonen probably belongs down here and so does Talbot and some of the other old goalies like Talbot. David Rittich certainly belongs here, or maybe he belongs in my next tier, along with Pheonix Copley, who should be playing in the AHL. Cal Petersen as well. I think it's safe to put Jack Campbell in that category too after his last 70-something games. Nedeljkovic for sure belongs there.

Then there's a tier below that which are guys that are either call ups on the verge of making the NHL, and the guys that get called up when there's injuries, but are pretty much only signed for the AHL. Some of these guys used to be NHL regulars, but washed out of the league. Some of these guys are debatably better than some of the guys in the tier above them.

And then there's one tier at the very bottom and that just features one guy. And that one guy is the has-been from Connecticut that insists on embarrassing himself even more and signed with the Rangers, after really heavily embarrassing himself enough last year. If I couldn't see the much younger looking face, I would have been convinced that was 58 year old Hasek out there coming out of retirement.

Who is the former number 29 on the Devils you discuss here? I don't recall you discussing such a player on NJ in any of the past few seasons.

 

[Maine Fan]

I keep saying this: go with Vitek and Schmid. Force Ruff to manage their time equally unless one is not doing well. If a change is required then do it during the trade deadline period, there will be rental goalies available then.

Is this a bad idea? What say you Bleedred, MY3SONS, and

 

[My3Sons]

I keep saying this: go with Vitek and Schmid. Force Ruff to manage their time equally unless one is not doing well. If a change is required then do it during the trade deadline period, there will be rental goalies available then.

Is this a bad idea? What say you Bleedred, MY3SONS, and

That's reasonable. Has Ruff struggled with goalie workload rationing? Vanacek definitely played more than he should have but Blackwood was so iffy last year that the team didn't have much choice. While Schmid is promising I doubt the team wants him to play as a tandem starter based on their public comments. Something tells me they will scan the waiver wire for a passable vet once the season gets ready to start. They can move Schmid back and forth to Utica for this season and I'd expect they do that. @Bleedred what are your thoughts as we stand today?

 

[Bleedred]

That's reasonable. Has Ruff struggled with goalie workload rationing? Vanacek definitely played more than he should have but Blackwood was so iffy last year that the team didn't have much choice. While Schmid is promising I doubt the team wants him to play as a tandem starter based on their public comments. Something tells me they will scan the waiver wire for a passable vet once the season gets ready to start. They can move Schmid back and forth to Utica for this season and I'd expect they do that. @Bleedred what are your thoughts as we stand today?

It's evident the plan was for Vanecek to not appear in as many games as he did. At least that was the plan going into the season. I won't go over the series of events with he who shall not be named (I just deleted about a paragraph on it) that I've been over an insane number of times, but I think the hope was that he probably wouldn't hit much more than 40 games last year or at least not more than 40-42 starts.

I definitely don't think they want him appearing in well over 50 games again this year, but I think they're probably not as against it as they would have been going into last season, simply because they've now seen him play 50+ games. I think they'd rather him play 50+ games than still-rookie Schmid play in over 50 games, but I don't think they'll hesitate to play Schmid more than Vanecek, if he's performing significantly better.

I keep saying this: go with Vitek and Schmid. Force Ruff to manage their time equally unless one is not doing well. If a change is required then do it during the trade deadline period, there will be rental goalies available then.

Is this a bad idea? What say you Bleedred, MY3SONS, and

I would say that's probably the plan and I'm fine with it. I'd definitely like to play the better goalie, but I don't see Vanecek as the liability that the guy Schmid is replacing was the last several years, but it's also not out of the question for either to potentially struggle.

I think they'd rather this be a 1a/1b split, whereas last year Vanecek played more of a starter's role, especially for the current standards, where goalies no longer play close to 70 games. And like I said, I don't believe the pre-season plan for last year was Vanecek playing a legit starters role.

 

[My3Sons]

It's evident the plan was for Vanecek to not appear in as many games as he did. At least that was the plan going into the season. I won't go over the series of events with he who shall not be named (I just deleted about a paragraph on it) that I've been over an insane number of times, but I think the hope was that he probably wouldn't hit much more than 40 games last year or at least not more than 40-42 starts.

I definitely don't think they want him appearing in well over 50 games again this year, but I think they're probably not as against it as they would have been going into last season, simply because they've now seen him play 50+ games. I think they'd rather him play 50+ games than still-rookie Schmid play in over 50 games, but I don't think they'll hesitate to play Schmid more than Vanecek, if he's performing significantly better.


I would say that's probably the plan and I'm fine with it. I'd definitely like to play the better goalie, but I don't see Vanecek as the liability that the guy Schmid is replacing was the last several years, but it's also not out of the question for either to potentially struggle.

I think they'd rather this be a 1a/1b split, whereas last year Vanecek played more of a starter's role, especially for the current standards, where goalies no longer play close to 70 games. And like I said, I don't believe the pre-season plan for last year was Vanecek playing a legit starters role.

Who is the guy Schmid is replacing? I must have missed who that was.

 

[Maine Fan]

It's evident the plan was for Vanecek to not appear in as many games as he did. At least that was the plan going into the season. I won't go over the series of events with he who shall not be named (I just deleted about a paragraph on it) that I've been over an insane number of times, but I think the hope was that he probably wouldn't hit much more than 40 games last year or at least not more than 40-42 starts.

I definitely don't think they want him appearing in well over 50 games again this year, but I think they're probably not as against it as they would have been going into last season, simply because they've now seen him play 50+ games. I think they'd rather him play 50+ games than still-rookie Schmid play in over 50 games, but I don't think they'll hesitate to play Schmid more than Vanecek, if he's performing significantly better.


I would say that's probably the plan and I'm fine with it. I'd definitely like to play the better goalie, but I don't see Vanecek as the liability that the guy Schmid is replacing was the last several years, but it's also not out of the question for either to potentially struggle.

I think they'd rather this be a 1a/1b split, whereas last year Vanecek played more of a starter's role, especially for the current standards, where goalies no longer play close to 70 games. And like I said, I don't believe the pre-season plan for last year was Vanecek playing a legit starters role.

Thanks Bleedred for a detail response. I agree with you as usual. Have a terrific Labor Day weekend.

 

[Maine Fan]

That's reasonable. Has Ruff struggled with goalie workload rationing? Vanacek played more than he should have but Blackwood was so iffy last year that the team didn't have much choice. While Schmid is promising I doubt the team wants him to play as a tandem starter based on their public comments. Something tells me they will scan the waiver wire for a passable vet once the season gets ready to start. They can move Schmid back and forth to Utica for this season and I'd expect they do that. @Bleedred what are your thoughts as we stand today?

Good thought they may pick up a goalie that way. I am comfortable with our present goalies for the regular season. But your plan gives them more flexibility. Vitek can't play as many games as he did last season. Have a terrific Labor Day weekend.

 

[Maine Fan]

He is back, Keith Kinkaid.

Interesting move Fitz, costs next to nothing, and doesn't impact anything with the existing Devils or Utica teams. Fitz, you are a genius.

New Jersey Devils Bring Keith Kinkaid Back In Strange Agreement With Chicago Wolves

The New Jersey Devils announced they re-signed Keith Kinkaid four years after trading him away. There are some intricacies to this deal that make it unique.

pucksandpitchforks.com

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

So IDK. Say the trade is a good one (i'm not sure what level of trade would make our fanbase happy, but lets say we do that - and get the cap right ).

Would we want Markstrom from Calgary? 3 years (including this) at $6mm.

Does he make us better?

 

[Devils731]

So IDK. Say the trade is a good one (i'm not sure what level of trade would make our fanbase happy, but lets say we do that - and get the cap right ).

Would we want Markstrom from Calgary? 3 years (including this) at $6mm.

Does he make us better?

I don’t think that makes the Devils any better nor more of a sure thing, so the cap gymnastics that would be required seem unneeded. That is even before talking about the assets you’d have to give up.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

I don’t think that makes the Devils any better nor more of a sure thing, so the cap gymnastics that would be required seem unneeded. That is even before talking about the assets you’d have to give up.

Thank you. Agreed - forget all the BS aside. In a vaccum does Markstrom make us better.

I like Vitek. I do think Markstrom is better at this point, though. But he had a down year last.

Anyway - just thinking outloud for funzies.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I thought Vitek was very good last night. Even on that third goal I thought Hula could have done a better job covering or lifting the stick of the Minnesota player who scored. Plus there was a mass of humanity in front of Vitek.

 

[Zippy316]

So IDK. Say the trade is a good one (i'm not sure what level of trade would make our fanbase happy, but lets say we do that - and get the cap right ).

Would we want Markstrom from Calgary? 3 years (including this) at $6mm.

Does he make us better?

I don’t see Markstrom as being that much better than VV.

For me, the goalies are tiered as the top goalies like Saros, Hellebuyck, Sorokin, Oettinger, and Shesterkin. Above average goalies like Demko, Georgiev, Markstrom, Hart, Bobrovsky, etc. where Markstrom is probably close to the bottom. Then the middle of the pack tier with Jarry, Kuemper, VV, where VV is probably closer to the top of the pack.

I think if we address goaltending at all this year, it’s to target guys on expiring deals like DeSmith, Reimer, Comrie, Montembeault or Stolarz that could split some games with VV while Schmid gets AHL time. Then you likely bring Schmid up to be an option come playoff time like last year.

 

[Guttersniped]

So IDK. Say the trade is a good one (i'm not sure what level of trade would make our fanbase happy, but lets say we do that - and get the cap right ).

Would we want Markstrom from Calgary? 3 years (including this) at $6mm.

Does he make us better?

Have you seen Markstom when the wheels come off? He can get really ugly.

Markström basically has two settings, God Mode or Complete Trashfire.

He helped knock the Flames out of the playoffs in 2020-21.

And he was even worse last season.

He had his best regular season in 2021-22 but his playoffs really showed both sides of Markstrom. He imploded vs the Oilers.

 

[Bleedred]

I don’t see Markstrom as being that much better than VV.

For me, the goalies are tiered as the top goalies like Saros, Hellebuyck, Sorokin, Oettinger, and Shesterkin. Above average goalies like Demko, Georgiev, Markstrom, Hart, Bobrovsky, etc. where Markstrom is probably close to the bottom. Then the middle of the pack tier with Jarry, Kuemper, VV, where VV is probably closer to the top of the pack.

I think if we address goaltending at all this year, it’s to target guys on expiring deals like DeSmith, Reimer, Comrie, Montembeault or Stolarz that could split some games with VV while Schmid gets AHL time. Then you likely bring Schmid up to be an option come playoff time like last year.

I'd put Markstrom in the above average to good tier, but he's quickly dropping. He had a bad season last year, he's had an okay start to this year, but nothing special. I give him a pass for last year, unless the poor play sustains itself this year.

Our top tier is probably about the same, but I'd put Vasilevskiy (currently injured) in that top tier and move Oettinger to the above average tier. I don't think Oettinger belongs in the top goalie tier yet, but I get why he's often times put into it, because he's still really young and has the potential to be in that tier. Especially with guys like Saros and Hellebuyck getting closer to 30. Hellebuyck already being 30.

I don't have Georgiev, Hart or Bobrovsky in that tier. All would be in the average/middle of the pack. My above average to good tier is Oettinger (rising), Demko, Marsktrom (falling), Kuemper and Ullmark.

I'm convinced Georgiev is a product of Colorado. Grubauer looked really good there (he did in Washington too, but it was in a very reduced role in Washington) and then went to Seattle and is now firmly in my bottom of the barrel with names I don't even wanna talk about. I'd put him in the average category with VV. I could easily see Georgiev putting up numbers similar to VV if he were here and VV putting up numbers similar to Georgiev on Colorado. Georgiev was painfully mediocre with the Rangers during the same years that Shesterkin was kicking ass and winning a Vezina over there. Some have said he benefits from more games played, and have been saying that since even before he go to Colorado.

Hart is a weird one, but he had a good season last year and is off to a strong start yet again this year. Before last year happened I actually had him on par with Blackwood, as both had two straight poor years before that. Only Hart's 21-22 was considerably better than Blackwood's and Hart's 20-21 was worse than any year Blackwood has ever had. I'll see where he's at during year's end. He's got the potential to be in the good/above average tier of mine, but not there just yet.

Bobrovsky is in the average tier at this point in his career. In the last four regular seasons, three of them have been mediocre to bad. Combining his mediocre regular with his strong playoffs, I guess you could say last year was a decent year for him.