Devils Goaltending

[HugeInTheShire]

When I first saw this thread, I saw the thread title, took a really quick flash of the name (too quick of a flash) and then read just your first paragraph, which I thought read like it possibly could have been from an inside fan. Then on second glance I read your entire post, not to mention noticed your avatar and name and was like “oh, this isn’t an outside fan” so my mistake on that.

I would be interested in acquiring someone like Hellebuyck for the right price, but I don’t think there are really better options than Vitek other than that. Don’t get me started on John Gibson and his contract. I was sick for a week just from seeing someone say we were interested in him about a month back.

I’ve seen it speculated that Dubas/Pittsburgh tried for him, but backed out and that’s when they circled back to Jarry.

I was down for Hellebuyck for sure for a long term solution, until his contract expectations were made known. Having a goalie signed to that high of a contract is the easiest way to ruin your cap. Gibson is a massive no from me, I think he's every bit as bad as his stat line shows, even at 50% and with a sweetener, I'd still pass.

If NJ tries for Hellebuyck as a free agent or can acquire him and sign him to a reasonable contract, I'd be happy, but for now with the window just opening I don't think it's time to make any kind of panic move.

 

[Nubmer6]

Yes, VV had a bad playoffs, but he had all of 3 playoff games before this. We had plenty of guys have horrible playoffs. It may be just a matter of maturing. It may also be a matter of being burnt out by the time the playoffs came around.

As for a replacement, there's very few I'd consider a definite upgrade: Obviously, the two New York starting Russians who won't be moved, along with Helle and Soros, who we all know about.

Ottenger would be an upgrade too, but he also had a horrific playoffs (and obviously not available) . Ulmark also has a history of bad playoff stats.

The only other goalie I'd take over him may be Swayman, who has a limited sample size.

I guess my point is that VV is a league average goalie, which is what we were all clamoring for at this time last year, and that there's only maybe 5 goalies I'd take over him, some of which also had playoff issues. As a result, I'm fine sitting tight unless a glorious opportunity presents itself.

 

[Zippy316]

There actually several teams right now that I can think of that will almost definitely be putting a goalie with NHL experience on waivers before the season starts, barring an injury or in the case that they decide to keep all 3 goalies. Which doesn’t happen frequently at all, but has happened.

I get the idea that Seattle is keeping Daccord around to be the backup for Grubauer and that they’ll waive Driedger again.

Montreal as of now has Allen, DeSmith and Montembeault. Now out of those three, I can see a scenario where any of them could be traded between now and the start of training camp.

This is my thought process.

There’s a couple of 3G that might hit waivers that look like a better option than anything the Devils can sign as a UFA. If you’re only like for a max half of the season stop gap, there’s some guys that could potentially provide that until you want to get Schmid some NHL minutes.

Stolarz, Stalock, Hellberg, DAccord/Driedger, Comrie, DeSmith/Montembault, Lyon (2 years though), Vladar (again 2 years), and I’m sure there’s a couple others I’m missing.

Some aren’t ideal, but for a temporary stop gap, you could do a lot worse.

 

[My3Sons]

This is my thought process.

There’s a couple of 3G that might hit waivers that look like a better option than anything the Devils can sign as a UFA. If you’re only like for a max half of the season stop gap, there’s some guys that could potentially provide that until you want to get Schmid some NHL minutes.

Stolarz, Stalock, Hellberg, DAccord/Driedger, Comrie, DeSmith/Montembault, Lyon (2 years though), Vladar (again 2 years), and I’m sure there’s a couple others I’m missing.

Some aren’t ideal, but for a temporary stop gap, you could do a lot worse.

With NJ low on the waiver list how likely is it that anyone decent makes it to them?

 

[Aurinko]

Vitek & Akira I'm fine with. They already been in the playoffs together and it counts as an experience. Akira proved he has the nerves to take the heat and Vitek has earned longer leash than just few playoff games.

I'm guessing the season will be good and the management does make a move at TDL. Hopefully it's just an experienced goalie as a backup. I have zero trust in TDL acquisitions (players or goalie), unless it's some absolute stud goalie like Hellebuyck who is known to routinely perform solid under extreme pressure. What goes to TDL players, you can't make a team better that late. In best case you get some locker room support, in worst you mess everything that made the team successful in the first place.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

VV deserves a chance to prove himself in the playoffs as much as the other iffy performers do. And it’s a little unfair for him that he got to play behind the team when they were at their worst. No problem going back to him for this season. The Devils have plenty of runway to take the patient approach to goaltending.

 

[Maine Fan]

Jonathan Bernier, NJ Devils' goalie decides to retire. Best wishes to him and thank you for your play with the Devils.

 

[Schemp]

I'm predicting that Ingram will have a break out season this year and was wondering if NJ may have interest in Vejmelka?

 

[Bleedred]

I'm predicting that Ingram will have a break out season this year and was wondering if NJ may have interest in Vejmelka?

I wouldn't.

Vejmelka was solid last year, but awful in his rookie year. Most of the metrics would suggest Vejmelka was a bad goalie on a bad team in 21-22, while most would suggest he was an above average or even solid goalie on a bad team in 22-23.

Hard to tell if he's more like the 21-22 goalie, or the 22-23 goalie.

And even Ingram had a pretty decent season there last year too.

I believe Vejmelka is signed for 2 more years at close to $3 million? Or over $3 million? Or is it 3 more years? If he's closer to the 21-22 Vejmelka than he is the 22-23 Vejmelka, then we've basically re-signed Blackwood for 2-3 more years.

If we take him on, we're also blocking Schmid from the NHL for the next 2 (or 3?) years, unless we're sending Vanecek back in the deal and in that case, I'm not sure it's even worth bothering? Vejmelka is a more of a question mark to me than Vanecek because he's only played 2 seasons and one was good but the other was bad.

 

[Schemp]

I wouldn't.

Vejmelka was solid last year, but awful in his rookie year. Most of the metrics would suggest Vejmelka was a bad goalie on a bad team in 21-22, while most would suggest he was an above average or even solid goalie on a bad team in 22-23.

Hard to tell if he's more like the 21-22 goalie, or the 22-23 goalie.

And even Ingram had a pretty decent season there last year too.

I believe Vejmelka is signed for 2 more years at close to $3 million? Or over $3 million? Or is it 3 more years? If he's closer to the 21-22 Vejmelka than he is the 22-23 Vejmelka, then we've basically re-signed Blackwood for 2-3 more years.

If we take him on, we're also blocking Schmid from the NHL for the next 2 (or 3?) years, unless we're sending Vanecek back in the deal and in that case, I'm not sure it's even worth bothering? Vejmelka is a more of a question mark to me than Vanecek because he's only played 2 seasons and one was good but the other was bad.

2 years at $2.725M and Schmid is waiver exempt. Vejjie is effective and it took him awhile in his 1st year to get use to the NA game and the Coyotes as a team, so it's been like 1 1/2+ years. It shouldn't be a question mark considering he came straight from the Czech league to the NHL.

 

[Bleedred]

2 years at $2.725M and Schmid is waiver exempt. Vejjie is effective and it took him awhile in his 1st year to get use to the NA game and the Coyotes as a team, so it's been like 1 1/2+ years. It shouldn't be a question mark considering he came straight from the Czech league to the NHL.

I think Schmid has earned an NHL spot for next year.

It only really makes any sense for the Devils to take on the next 2 years of Vejmelka if we're sending Vanecek back or if Schmid struggles.

I don't honestly believe we have any interest in any goalie right now other than maybe Hellebuyck or possibly a guy like Saros, who won't be available.

 

[Schemp]

I think Schmid has earned an NHL spot for next year.

It only really makes any sense for the Devils to take on the next 2 years of Vejmelka if we're sending Vanecek back or if Schmid struggles.

I don't honestly believe we have any interest in any goalie right now other than maybe Hellebuyck or possibly a guy like Saros, who won't be available.

I was just thinking about the advantages of carrying 3 goalies and 1 is waiver exempt.

 

[Nubmer6]

I was just thinking about the advantages of carrying 3 goalies and 1 is waiver exempt.

The problem is that Schmid isn't waiver exempt after this year. Acquiring a goalie with 2 years of term left would be a problem unless he was a clear upgrade of Vanacek.

 

[Bleedred]

The problem is that Schmid isn't waiver exempt after this year. Acquiring a goalie with 2 years of term left would be a problem unless he was a clear upgrade of Vanacek.

This is one good point

And 3 goalies is a luxury we probably shouldn't want to be able to afford, when Vejmelka (assuming we kept Vanecek in that deal) would take up a significant amount of our remaining cap space.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

We made plenty of moves within the last year. Lots of parts have came in and let's have gone out. This isn't some make or break season for cup contention. It's an evaluation year for mostly Vanaceck and Schmid to an extent.

We can always sign Hellebuyck next summer if he hits UFA and we ship out Vanaceck. I'm not splurging over a goalie after seeing guys like Hill , Murray , Niemi and Crawford lead teams to Cups. You don't need an elite goalie to do it. You just need a consistent one that is on their game when it counts.

 

[tailfins]

I also think we’re on the cusp of the next goalie generation.

You’ve already got Sorokin and Shesterkin (though they’re a bit older). Edit: maybe add Demko here?

Then you’ve got Swayman, Hart, Oettinger, Wolf, Levi, Knight, Wallstedt, Askarov.

Plus there’s guys like Schmid who are less heralded but might still be good. (I think Philly has a couple they like). And perhaps Gustavson (sp?) in Minnesota has figured it out?

I see a goalie glut coming in a couple of years. If not a glut, at least less of the scarcity there is right now.

 

[Devs3cups]

We made plenty of moves within the last year. Lots of parts have came in and let's have gone out. This isn't some make or break season for cup contention. It's an evaluation year for mostly Vanaceck and Schmid to an extent.

We can always sign Hellebuyck next summer if he hits UFA and we ship out Vanaceck. I'm not splurging over a goalie after seeing guys like Hill , Murray , Niemi and Crawford lead teams to Cups. You don't need an elite goalie to do it. You just need a consistent one that is on their game when it counts.

Exactly. The window just opened, and it’s open for a while.

 

[Bleedred]

I also think we’re on the cusp of the next goalie generation.

You’ve already got Sorokin and Shesterkin (though they’re a bit older). Edit: maybe add Demko here?

Then you’ve got Swayman, Hart, Oettinger, Wolf, Levi, Knight, Wallstedt, Askarov.

Plus there’s guys like Schmid who are less heralded but might still be good. (I think Philly has a couple they like). And perhaps Gustavson (sp?) in Minnesota has figured it out?

I see a goalie glut coming in a couple of years. If not a glut, at least less of the scarcity there is right now.

I’d put Demko in your second tier and not in the Sorokin/Shesterkin tier. Saros should be in their tier as well and Vasilevskiy, though theyre also the same age or older than them. Demko is kind of overrated, even by me. He had a bad season, which I think he gets a pass for, but outside of his two pretty good seasons before that, he hasn’t been anything special or nearly as good as the two Russian guys that are close by. He’s in Oettinger territory for me and probably even lower, due to the poor season he just had, which Oettinger hasn’t had a year like that yet.

Your second tier has a lot of guys who are maybe’s (Hart, Knight) but haven’t consistently shown anything in the league, as well as guys that haven’t really played in the league at all, like Wolf, Wallstedt, Askarov, Levi.

 

[Bleedred]

Demko is often times talked about the same way as Cory Schneider was in Vancouver.

In reality, Demko isn’t nearly as good as Cory Schneider was in Vancouver.

I don’t wanna hear about the bad team either, as Demko has performed very well on some of the bad teams in Vancouver and not so well on some of the other bad teams in Vancouver.

He’s a good goalie, but definitely not an elite one.

Oettinger is another that gets a little too much hype. He does have age in his favor though and has yet to turn 25. He’s three years younger than Demko.

The Oettinger mystique has definitely died down after his performance in the most recent playoffs, where he was bad and they only got by Seattle because look at the washed up bum they had guarding their net. People aren’t as high on him after last year’s playoffs, which I don’t think is cause to be low on him, just like I didn’t think his series against Calgary the year before was reason to be super high on him. That’s all anybody talked about for a year and until his next playoff game, I think people are really gonna be talking about his 2023 playoffs.

 

[tailfins]

I’d put Demko in your second tier and not in the Sorokin/Shesterkin tier. Saros should be in their tier as well and Vasilevskiy, though theyre also the same age or older than them. Demko is kind of overrated, even by me. He had a bad season, which I think he gets a pass for, but outside of his two pretty good seasons before that, he hasn’t been anything special or nearly as good as the two Russian guys that are close by. He’s in Oettinger territory for me and probably even lower, due to the poor season he just had, which Oettinger hasn’t had a year like that yet.

Your second tier has a lot of guys who are maybe’s (Hart, Knight) but haven’t consistently shown anything in the league, as well as guys that haven’t really played in the league at all, like Wolf, Wallstedt, Askarov, Levi.

Agree - I created some weird tiers. Was meant to be age / established in NHL, but didn’t end up that way.

And you’re right that there are a lot of question marks. But, I can’t remember a time in the past 20 years where there have been this many hyped young / prospect goalies. That was really my point.

People are talking about the goalie scarcity and how teams are moving to a “the goalie doesn’t matter” approach. I think with these younger goalies we’re going to see top tier goaltending being a factor again.

 

[My3Sons]

Agree - I created some weird tiers. Was meant to be age / established in NHL, but didn’t end up that way.

And you’re right that there are a lot of question marks. But, I can’t remember a time in the past 20 years where there have been this many hyped young / prospect goalies. That was really my point.

People are talking about the goalie scarcity and how teams are moving to a “the goalie doesn’t matter” approach. I think with these younger goalies we’re going to see top tier goaltending being a factor again.

Top tier goaltending is always a big factor. The problem teams have is predicting it so they just fall back on "good enough" and stick with what's predictable elsewhere. I doubt any team passes on a Shesterkin if they knew he'd be that good.

 

[Aurinko]

Demko is often times talked about the same way as Cory Schneider was in Vancouver.

In reality, Demko isn’t nearly as good as Cory Schneider was in Vancouver.

I don’t wanna hear about the bad team either, as Demko has performed very well on some of the bad teams in Vancouver and not so well on some of the other bad teams in Vancouver.

He’s a good goalie, but definitely not an elite one.

Oettinger is another that gets a little too much hype. He does have age in his favor though and has yet to turn 25. He’s three years younger than Demko.

The Oettinger mystique has definitely died down after his performance in the most recent playoffs, where he was bad and they only got by Seattle because look at the washed up bum they had guarding their net. People aren’t as high on him after last year’s playoffs, which I don’t think is cause to be low on him, just like I didn’t think his series against Calgary the year before was reason to be super high on him. That’s all anybody talked about for a year and until his next playoff game, I think people are really gonna be talking about his 2023 playoffs.

While I have a more positive picture of Demko & Allen than you, but you are right about the Oettinger hype dying down. It was like yesterday when nhl.com was making highlight videoes of him . At 4M cap hit, Oettinger is still a good goalie, but those were some sucky playoffs stats with a team that should be consistent for deep runs.

 

[My3Sons]

While I have a more positive picture of Demko & Allen than you, but you are right about the Oettinger hype dying down. It was like yesterday when nhl.com was making highlight videoes of him . At 4M cap hit, Oettinger is still a good goalie, but those were some sucky playoffs stats with a team that should be consistent for deep runs.

I'd take Oettinger on NJ in a heartbeat. He's got plenty of talent. He may never be great but I'd be surprised if he isn't a productive NHL goalie for a good number of years barring injury.

 

[forceten]

Any votes for Lindsay Middlebrook? Sam St. Laurent?

 

[Bleedred]

I'd take Oettinger on NJ in a heartbeat. He's got plenty of talent. He may never be great but I'd be surprised if he isn't a productive NHL goalie for a good number of years barring injury.

I would take him too, he's got age certainly going for him as well. He hasn't been as good as I think a lot of people act like he has been, but he's also not even 25, so his entire career so far has been played in his early 20's.

I don't see him as elite yet, I kind of see him in the same tier as Demko, Ullmark, Kuemper and Markstrom (Markstrom is out with one more BAD season though) as the good goalies in the league, but not really elite.

I think really the only elite goalies in the league are the two Russian's across the river, the Russian across the bay from me, and Saros and Hellebuyck.

The other guys are in that tier. Swayman may also be in that tier, but still has a limited run of time and has only been used as a 1b/backup thus far, unlike Oettinger, who has been a clear cut number one for several years now.

Almost everyone that I haven't named is in the JAG category, which is pretty big, but the few leftover after that are in the BAD category. We all know who I'd put in that one. Jones, Mrazek, the former #29 of the Devils (not 1992 Brodeur) and there's probably a couple other guys I'm forgetting. Grubauer is certainly pretty nearly in this category at this point and Binnington is certainly getting there. Kahkonen probably belongs down here and so does Talbot and some of the other old goalies like Talbot. David Rittich certainly belongs here, or maybe he belongs in my next tier, along with Pheonix Copley, who should be playing in the AHL. Cal Petersen as well. I think it's safe to put Jack Campbell in that category too after his last 70-something games. Nedeljkovic for sure belongs there.

Then there's a tier below that which are guys that are either call ups on the verge of making the NHL, and the guys that get called up when there's injuries, but are pretty much only signed for the AHL. Some of these guys used to be NHL regulars, but washed out of the league. Some of these guys are debatably better than some of the guys in the tier above them.

And then there's one tier at the very bottom and that just features one guy. And that one guy is the has-been from Connecticut that insists on embarrassing himself even more and signed with the Rangers, after really heavily embarrassing himself enough last year. If I couldn't see the much younger looking face, I would have been convinced that was 58 year old Hasek out there coming out of retirement.