Devils fan asking about coach Paul Maclean

[WhiteLight*]

Why? Not being hired now?

Lou, Oates, Stevens, Albelin, Foligno and Terreri is what they are going with

 

[SenatorFrank]

He overplayed Phillips and Legwand. Maybe Michalek a bit. But the hyperbole here is ridiculous.

I'm sorry but when Chris Neil is getting ANY PP time it's not ridiculous. He's literally the last player on our current roster who should be there.

Paul Maclean could do well in NJ because of how many vets they have. He's not suited to coach youngsters. Our roster has changed significantly since he'd joined the organization. His system worked with that roster but when we lost our leaders and veterans, the system became ineffective and he was extremely resistant to change when it started to fall apart. His unwillingness to adapt is why he was fired.

It needs to be said that he can't be blamed for our awful team D. Only so much a coach can do, I do however feel he's responsible for ruining (not that he's hopeless at this point) Wier's development. I'm happy he's gone because we have too many youngsters right now and we need them to develop if we're ever going to be competitive.

 

[StefanW]

This thread has more to do with the nature of HF posters than MacLean.

In three full seasons here he won coach of the year once, was a finalist once, and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 full season despite having a bottom end budget. The amount he did with what he had to work with put him in the discussion for coach of the decade, let alone coach of the year.

HF boards wants everyone over 25 gone, and wants teams to go with 18 and 19 year olds ever time one of those guys scores points in two games in a row. This has nothing to do with the reality of winning in the NHL.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

This thread has more to do with the nature of HF posters than MacLean.

In three full seasons here he won coach of the year once, was a finalist once, and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 full season despite having a bottom end budget. The amount he did with what he had to work with put him in the discussion for coach of the decade, let alone coach of the year.

HF boards wants everyone over 25 gone, and wants teams to go with 18 and 19 year olds ever time one of those guys scores points in two games in a row. This has nothing to do with the reality of winning in the NHL.

The Jack Adams award should have been given to the goal tenders.

His system was unsustainable. "Pesky Sens" was fun to watch and all but playing from behind constantly is not a recipe for success .

 

[Benjamin]

Jack Adams goes to the most surprising team. Not the best coach.

 

[Best In The Game]

Wish they would of hired him. Oh well. I guess years of mediocrity continues.

 

[WhiteLight*]

This thread has more to do with the nature of HF posters than MacLean.

In three full seasons here he won coach of the year once, was a finalist once, and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 full season despite having a bottom end budget. The amount he did with what he had to work with put him in the discussion for coach of the decade, let alone coach of the year.

HF boards wants everyone over 25 gone, and wants teams to go with 18 and 19 year olds ever time one of those guys scores points in two games in a row. This has nothing to do with the reality of winning in the NHL.

This kind of thinking is a contagious and deadly myth running rampant amongst the older posters here on HFSens. You guys need to stop being being personally offended when ''younger posters'' want older Senators to be moved.

In general, older people are definitely wiser than young people. However, that does not mean young people are wrong about everything, and it certainly doesn't mean older people are always right. With all due respect, you have no idea what the ''reality of winning in the NHL'' is. Some people really don't think the Phillips and Neils of this team help with winning (backed up by the Sens being pretty crappy with them in the lineup); you obviously disagree.

We'll never really truly know who is right because they are so many variables at play. Even when Neil and Phillips finally leave, the team may or may not be better, and it may or may not be because of them. No way to establish causation.


HOWEVER, with all this being said, ''younger posters'' do not want older players gone simply because they are old. It's a contagious and deadly MYTH.

This is what I think, and in general I think applies to posters that you are targeting:
-We want good players, whether young or old.
-The team that wins the Cup is the best all around team; that means the team with the best combination of defense and offense.
-Advanced age is not a prerequisite for being a good all around player, nor is it a prerequisite for leadership. Crosby captained his team to a cup at 20 years old. Toews at 22.
-We want Neil, Phillips and Michalek gone because they are the worst players on the team. They bring little positive impact in terms of all around play; probably a negative impact.
-If an older player is equally as bad as a younger player, the younger will be favoured for a roster spot (as long as he isn't being rushed to the NHL), because the younger player is cheaper (important for Ottawa) and can be developed
-Many teams have won Stanley Cups with a very young core. The oldest team in the league does not win the Cup.
-We want older players that make a positive impact on the ice. Guys who are there only to teach and encourage should be coaches; they have no value as players. There's no room for bad players on good teams.


So it's not about age. But it is a young man's game. It's extremely harsh and destroys your body. If you can't accept that, maybe you shouldn't be a fan.

Jack Adams goes to the most surprising team. Not the best coach.

Absolutely

 

[DylanSensFan]

This thread has more to do with the nature of HF posters than MacLean.

In three full seasons here he won coach of the year once, was a finalist once, and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 full season despite having a bottom end budget. The amount he did with what he had to work with put him in the discussion for coach of the decade, let alone coach of the year.

HF boards wants everyone over 25 gone, and wants teams to go with 18 and 19 year olds ever time one of those guys scores points in two games in a row. This has nothing to do with the reality of winning in the NHL.

I think you should watch your over generalization. MacLean is a hell of a coach, but Lou Lamerello is long past his tenure with the Devils. Lou needs to get the boot for the Devils to find true success again, as far as I am concerned. He wants to control too much of what the coach is doing with the team.

I am not sure if that was the case here with Murray... but unless Ottawa goes on a tear and makes the playoffs I think the coaching change was for not. Cameron still has a lot to prove.

 

[Flamingo]

StefanW never mentioned the age of posters.

 

[God Says No]

This thread has more to do with the nature of HF posters than MacLean.

In three full seasons here he won coach of the year once, was a finalist once, and made the playoffs 2 out of 3 full season despite having a bottom end budget. The amount he did with what he had to work with put him in the discussion for coach of the decade, let alone coach of the year.

HF boards wants everyone over 25 gone, and wants teams to go with 18 and 19 year olds ever time one of those guys scores points in two games in a row. This has nothing to do with the reality of winning in the NHL.

That's pretty much BS. It only seems like majority of the posters want the old guys out, because the old guys can't play anymore. That's the reality. If we had competent veterans then you wouldn't see posts to get rid of Neil, Phillips, Michalek, Legwand, etc...

No one is screaming to get rid of Anderson, nor MacArthur. So your generalization doesn't work.

If you had to make a list of players who underperformed vs. over performed, you'd likely to see the underperformed list littered with veterans. There is no age bias. Only skill bias.

 

[Micklebot]

I think McLean's system is built for a good skating team with silid puck movement from all it's defenders. Ottawa doesn't have that, we have two defenders that fit the bill well, and another two that sorta work.

McLean had the forwards high, forcing the D to make tougher plays. It helped create offense, and worked fine when we had Karlsson, Kuba, and Gonchar, was fine with Methot (healthy), Gonchar with Wiercioch, Karlsson (pre-cooke)/Benoit, but really started to falter with only Karlsson (post cooke), back strain Methot, and Phillips playing mins he can't handle.

I think with the right personnel, McLean can be a good coach. There was nothing unsustainable about how the team played in 11/12. In 12/13, we got insane goaltending, but the team was still playing solid hockey. We probably don't make the playoffs with league average goaltending, but lets not forget we were getting the most shots per game in the league that year. The team was playing very well dispite missing top talent.

In 13/14, the wheels came off. We know know Methot was playing through a bad back, Spezza was damaged goods, same goes for Karlsson, and Ryan was playing with a hernia. This year, the team simply doesn't have the horses (Phillips playing top pair mins is just insane),

MacLean clearly had his faults, but imo they were exacerbated by the roster he was given. With no suitable top pair LD option, we was left choosing between Phillips and Boro in the top 4. Not exactly great options, does any playoff team have a player at that level in their top four?

I think he overplayed Legwand Smith and Neil, he has a tendency to run with vets when the rookies aren't significantly better, and he seems to play lines based on their roles, not their effectiveness, so the shutdown line got lots of key defensive starts, and late game toi, despite not being great at getting the puck out of our end.

 

[BonkTastic]

If you can't accept that, maybe you shouldn't be a fan.

Oh MAK! There you are!

Missed you, buddy. This place just isn't the same without unnecessarily aggressive posts like this one.

StefanW never mentioned the age of posters.

Seriously.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[SenatorArmy*]

I suspect he'll have the Devils rolling for a while since the Sens were pretty amazing for awhile when he became coach, before he lost favour. I predict a 7 game winning streak with maclean as coach

 

[pepty]

Great coach,but not much to work with here unfortunately. He had a meddling GM who used to be a coach and an owner who promised the job to the coach of his junior team as well as a team that is made up of inexperinvced players and over the hill veterans and the lowest payroll in the league.

 

[Push540]

He overplayed Phillips and Legwand. Maybe Michalek a bit. But the hyperbole here is ridiculous.

People loved him for 2 years. He lost captains whom weren't replaced. Bishop went to TB for a nobody. We were a mid-level spending team now we have the lowest budget in the NHL but somehow it's all PM's fault. Coach of the year, nearly twice in his first two years and players just in slumps.

Record this year with PM 11-11-5 What's Ottawa's record now after PM? 14-14-7. Oh yeah, exact same record. Changing the coach did nothing!

Horrible overall and horrible with young players

So coach of the year, getting to the playoffs in his first two years, winning coach of the year, nearly twice, getting a contract extension etc but one bad year due to players not producing and it's time to turn on the coach? internet know-it-all's.

Why don't you go coach the team?

I've never heard this.

Bandwagon jumpers.

I think MacLean's a good coach, but he'd be going from a situation where he had very little to work with to a situation where he has even less to work with.

Doesn't that sum up everything in his Sens career? Why do people make it so complicated?

"quick, let's hate on this guy for minor things instead of using reason."

Nobody in ottawa including the players understand what system Mac played

So making the playoffs was a fluke?

 

[SenatorArmy*]

So making the playoffs was a fluke?

yes...we made the playoffs with our best players injured...if MacLean was a good coach why couldn't we make the playoffs with our best players in the lineup?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Then he should have changed his system accordingly. If this team has limited hockey sense, then he should not implement a hockey sense oriented system that leaves a lot up to the players.

''Too complex'' is nice way of saying incomplete and not elaborate. Mac sat on his butt the whole summer and tried to do exactly the same thing as last year.

Simple fact is, that players and teams plateau very easily. You can't be satisfied played the way we did in the lockout season permanently (taking away the middle of the zone and forcing shots from the boards). You need to take the next step, learn the next phase of the system, build on your foundation.

Pretty hard to do when you constantly lose key pieces of the team, the owner won't invest in quality veterans to help the youngsters, and you have some kids with entitlement issues who think one good season is enough and they've "made it" by getting a contract.

MacLean was trying to build a system for long-term success and development that would help the career of all the guys on the ice. Just like the Detroit system.

Some of the young core guys here either weren't willing to go beyond their comfort zone or simply don't have the IQ to take that next step. That should be disconcerting for everyone here, irregardless who is behind the bench. Any chance of future success this team has hinges on the kids continuing to improve in all facets of their game.

 

[BonkTastic]

yes...we made the playoffs with our best players injured...if MacLean was a good coach why couldn't we make the playoffs with our best players in the lineup?

Playing devil's advocate here, but the argument goes both ways.

The flip side: If the team could make the playoffs with their best players injured, wouldn't the fluke year be the one in which they missed the playoffs when everyone was healthy?



I'm just saying. If the argument can work both ways, it's not a terribly convincing one.

 

[Push540]

yes...we made the playoffs with our best players injured...if MacLean was a good coach why couldn't we make the playoffs with our best players in the lineup?

So when players slump, it's always the coach's fault? When a team just allows tons of shots and plays poor defense, it's 100% the coach's fault? Why are hundreds of million a year spent on players if the coaches win and lose all games? Oh wait, players win and lose the games. Poor passes, not being able to score, taking penalties like they're going out of style. When the players don't play, you can't win anything.

 

[SenatorArmy*]

Playing devil's advocate here, but the argument goes both ways.

The flip side: If the team could make the playoffs with their best players injured, wouldn't the fluke year be the one in which they missed the playoffs when everyone was healthy?



I'm just saying. If the argument can work both ways, it's not a terribly convincing one.

That's what I'm saying though. If we can make the playoffs with all those injuries & we're giving the coach credit, then why can't he perform that same sort of magic with a healthy lineup?

Otherwise I agree with you, Paul MacLean is a great coach, as long as your best players are injured.

 

[Six Assets]

I honestly don't think we would have made the playoffs if it wasn't a lockout year

 

[SenatorArmy*]

I honestly don't think we would have made the playoffs if it wasn't a lockout year

agreed...you coudl feel it kind of slipping away at the end of the year...in fact I remember some concern that we were going to fall out & it really came down to the wire..

 

[Push540]

agreed...you coudl feel it kind of slipping away at the end of the year...in fact I remember some concern that we were going to fall out & it really came down to the wire..

"feel" it slipping away? Who felt that? A poor team made the playoffs. It was always going to come down to the wire.

 

[SenatorArmy*]

"feel" it slipping away? Who felt that? A poor team made the playoffs. It was always going to come down to the wire.

I'm just saying we lost more towards the end of the season than we won before that...

 

[Push540]

I'm just saying we lost more towards the end of the season than we won before that...

Welcome to sports. Good teams don't win all of the time and poor teams don't lose all of the time. Wins and losses come in waves.