Post-Game Talk: Devils defeat the Flyers 4-3 (Baejac!!)

[njdevils1982]

Before they brought up Crawford during the broadcast I had completely forgotten we even had him

i wish i could forget grabner

 

[JimEIV]

I think the disconnect occurs when trying to extrapolate the future from the present. Of course it is disappointing that Hughes isn’t scoring more points overall. That said I think a number of folks suggest that because of any number of factors from coronavirus to poor showings by teammates and advanced stats and even the eye test that Hughes still has a bright future. You can be disappointed but still see a great player down the road in Hughes if you choose to. Some can’t get past their disappointment and some can’t get past their evaluation of his talent. I will say that I don’t think anyone critical of Hughes on this section of the boards has actually come out and said he’s not going to be a great player eventually. Instead things are stated as “concerning” or some other vague standard that just focuses on the today while leaving them an out since they probably expect a breakout eventually.

Edit - I see a few of us had the same thoughts.

I think many just keep pointing to the future not recognizing that the present is the springboard to the future....things just don't go from dark to bright...there needs to be a dawn...we are still very much in the dark.

And we are still in the dark because our our young players haven't been as big of contributors as we need them to be.

 

[The Great Dame]

i wish i could forget grabner

For as bad as the Grabner deal was that year the Maroon deal was equally great. He’s a guy I always wish we’d re-signed. But good for him he’s got 2 rings already and probably a 3rd on the way.

 

[njdevils1982]

For as bad as the Grabner deal was that year the Maroon deal was equally great. He’s a guy I always wish we’d re-signed. But good for him he’s got 2 rings already and probably a 3rd on the way.

i think most people here were wanting to have maroon back

 

[The Great Dame]

i think most people here were wanting to have maroon back

Yeah I think the Devils wanted him back too IIRC but just couldn’t get it done. Think he took a serious pay cut to go to St Louis to get to be with his family.

 

[devilsblood]

I think many just keep pointing to the future not recognizing that the present is the springboard to the future....things just don't go from dark to bright...there needs to be a dawn...we are still very much in the dark.

And we are still in the dark because our our young players haven't been as big of contributors as we need them to be.

Aside from the part that we lead the league in points from rookies.

Young teams tend to struggle. Not a new phenomena.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

not really tbh. The wins and losses are pretty incidental. I don’t get up and down the way a lot of people here do after each game.The kids are playing well for the most part and we’re seeing most of what we wanna see for long term success. The rest is gravy.

Agree. When your GM in the off season basically comes out and says it is a "process" year there is no reason for me to worry about W-L. I have been very happy with the season overall. The bad period seems to have been COVID related. Also there seemed to be agreement from those posting in the off season that Nico had to take a step forward for the team to be a bubble team. Since he basically did not play there is even less reason to worry about the record IMO. All I have to do is look at the ages of the teams leading scorers and I get a smile on my face

 

[NjDevsRR]

Jim must think Mackinnon sucks since he averaged a 55 point pace his first 4 seasons.

 

[devilsblood]

i think most people here were wanting to have maroon back

I did, but looking at it now, I'm glad we moved on. Younger faster and all that. I guess he could have bridged the gap, but I'm just really liking our big fast young players right now.

 

[JimEIV]

Aside from the part that we lead the league in points from rookies.

Young teams tend to struggle. Not a new phenomena.

Good young teams improve. We haven't

 

[JimEIV]

Jim must think Mackinnon sucks since he averaged a 55 point pace his first 4 seasons.

We have had parts of 6 seasons from 2 #1OA and STILL haven't achieved 55 points from any of them.

 

[devilsblood]

Good young teams improve. We haven't

1)See the point about rookies above, we continue to get younger.

2)I think the progress last year to this year is pretty obvious.

 

[JimEIV]

1)See the point about rookies above, we continue to get younger.

2)I think the progress last year to this year is pretty obvious.

I see fewer goals For from last year
I see more goals Against from last year
I see less win% from last year

How are you measuring progress? You might need a new tape measure?

 

[devilsblood]

We have had parts of 6 seasons from 2 #1OA and STILL haven't achieved 55 points from any of them.

Nico has played 5 games this year. Yeah, let's include that.

The fact that Hughes at 19 STILL hasn't put up 55 points is, what's the word I'm looking for? Somebody help me out here.

 

[devilsblood]

I see fewer goals For from last year
I see more goals Against from last year
I see less win% from last year

How are you measuring progress? You might need a new tape measure?

45% goals for% last year as well as this year, so I'm not sure what #'s you are seeing.

5v5 we were below 44% last year. This year we are at 49.97%

So the difference is special teams and other special situations. And I'm not saying those are not important, but they are not central, I think you first establish 5v5 and then build from there. We are significantly better at 5v5.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think many just keep pointing to the future not recognizing that the present is the springboard to the future....things just don't go from dark to bright...there needs to be a dawn...we are still very much in the dark.

And we are still in the dark because our our young players haven't been as big of contributors as we need them to be.

We’re getting more points from under 23 players than any team in the NHL by a lot. Without Nico.

 

[devilsblood]

Hughes has played 2 years in the league, and in neither season will the NHL have played more then 70 games, this year we've played 30 games thus far.

But yeah let's make declarative statements about points totals.

#ridonkulous.

 

[devilsblood]

And I'm certainly not blaming this years poor PK on Jack Hughes.

PP? Goes back to the "we'd all like to see more production from Hughes" line of thinking.

 

[MartyOwns]

This isn't a discussion anymore. One person is saying he is a disappointment.

The other is listing reasons why his numbers are the way they are and that is being dismissed as "excuses" and there is zero budging from anyone then the conversation is becoming spam.

So either find some middle ground or talk about something else.

the “middle ground” is he has improved, the production isn’t there yet but he’s trending in the right direction. this comes down to patience, context and managing expectations which have never been certain posters’ strong suits.

 

[Derps]

Do the people here think if Jack and Nico havent taken large steps forward next year, this is a legitimate conversation? At what point do we go "Okay, you guys have to get better. You are the cornerstones of this franchise and we need you guys to be great."

Both are young, both show lots of promise, but as #1s, I think both should be held to pretty lofty standards, and I dont see that happening around here.

 

[devilsblood]

Do the people here think if Jack and Nico havent taken large steps forward next year, this is a legitimate conversation? At what point do we go "Okay, you guys have to get better. You are the cornerstones of this franchise and we need you guys to be great."

Both are young, both show lots of promise, but as #1s, I think both should be held to pretty lofty standards, and I dont see that happening around here.

Nico has played 5 games this year.

Hughes is 19 and looks younger then that out there. I'd like to see more points but I think he is playing pretty well.

I agree it is important that these guys develop into high level players.

 

[Hisch13r]

the “middle ground” is he has improved, the production isn’t there yet but he’s trending in the right direction. this comes down to patience, context and managing expectations which have never been certain posters’ strong suits.

lol That should be the middle ground. It isn’t though because one side has said he hasn’t improved. There will never be a middle ground found because one side doesn’t bother to be reasonable

 

[NJDevs26]

The fact that the conversation in here after a ‘win’ is just the same old Hughes back and forth says something about both the critics and everyone else’s obsession with the critic(s). Yeah I know the wins mean very little at this point other than who they are getting production from but still, we don’t need to spam this discussion that won’t change anyone’s mind anyway in multiple threads.

 

[Derps]

Nico has played 5 games this year.

Hughes is 19 and looks younger then that out there. I'd like to see more points but I think he is playing pretty well.

I agree it is important that these guys develop into high level players.

Nico has played 3 seasons + 5 games. This is not just commentary on his 5 games this year, which probably shouldn't even count for anything.

I am asking at what point do we have enough information to start demanding some steps forward from our 2 number 1 picks. I have been pretty firmly in the camp of them both needing to take tangible production wise steps forward next year. This is not asking them to be McDavid or be Matthews, but I think both do need to be better than they have been. That should be the expectation.

 

[NJDevs26]

They’re both on different timelines, Jack will have played at most a season and a half worth of games after this year, Nico three seasons worth going into his fifth post draft year. I’d like to see Nico start producing at an elite level next year and I’d like to see more consistent production from Jack rather than just tail off again after 5-10 games, but some of that is also getting more help around them too.