GDT: Devils @ Bruins - 7:00 PM - MSG+

[HersheyBob27]

I guess he found a new target.


Somehow, I don't think your facts equal actual facts, though.

Not you again. You just can’t help yourself

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Dougie was exactly what we wanted before his first injury. He was a (way too early) top 5 Norris candidate to start the year. Then he got cratered by multiple injuries. I’ll be concerned next year if he comes back looking the same. Until then, I’m just going to throw this year in the trash for him.

 

[Triumph]

Hamilton is being relegated to the 2nd unit because he likes to shoot the puck from the point, something Severson doesn't do. Damon basically dishes the puck to one of Bratt or Hughes on the side boards and let's them do their thing and that's the main reason why Dougie isn't a good fit in Recchi's "system".

But when you sign a guy to a 7 year 63M$ contract and the one thing he's mostly known for is to run a PP, you give that guy the keys to the bus and find a way to make it work. I mean, I doubt Colorado would put Makar on their 2nd unit because he doesn't differ to MacKinnon or Rantanen every chance he gets.

Dougie Hamilton shots/60 on the PP this season: 10.9 | % of total shots taken: 24%
Damon Severson shots/60 on the PP this season: 11.5 | % of total shots taken: 27%

This is what happens when you just invent narratives in your head. You invented a reason for why things are without doing the slightest investigation into whether that's true.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Not right to compare makar with hamilton. They aren’t even close to being in the same league

Who's comparing Makar to Hamilton?

I said that the Avs wouldn't think about moving their best offensive minded dman off their #1 unit because they feel he doesn't feed MacKinnon or Rantanen enough.

I simply used Makar as an example, not a comparison. Take whatever offensive dman you want, the point remains the same... they're QB'ing a #1 unit whereas Recchi has our guy on the 2nd unit for about 30 seconds with a bunch of average options.

 

[Triumph]

Ah yes, mister stats to the rescue, ready to school everyone with his little #'s lol.

Is there a stat for shot attemps that didn't hit the net, because I'm sure that Hamilton has a heck of a lot more shot attempts that didn't get registered in your little stat sheet. Hamilton is known to let it fly from the point and if you would actually watch the games instead of your stat sheet, you wouldn't look like a total fool for posting nonsense and trying to correct posters by acting like a know it all.

If you can't even see, or admit, that Damon Severson is basically the pivot guy for Bratt and Hughes at the top of the diamond, than I don't know what to tell you.

You don't know what to tell me because your eye test was just shown to be shit. If you can't notice that Damon Severson is shooting the puck a ton on the power play, I don't know what to tell you - my assumption was that these numbers would be about equal, maybe Dougie a little higher, but turns out nope, Damon's higher, and he takes a higher percentage of shots. The idea that someone taking 27% of the shots while on the ice is 'the pivot guy' is absurd, and someone with some humility might re-examine what they were 'watching'.

Dougie Hamilton is credited with more shot attempts by 2 shot attempts per 60 minutes. If you think 'your eyes' are able to pick that up, lol. They both shoot the puck a lot.

 

[HersheyBob27]

You don't know what to tell me because your eye test was just shown to be shit. If you can't notice that Damon Severson is shooting the puck a ton on the power play, I don't know what to tell you - my assumption was that these numbers would be about equal, maybe Dougie a little higher, but turns out nope, Damon's higher, and he takes a higher percentage of shots. The idea that someone taking 27% of the shots while on the ice is 'the pivot guy' is absurd, and someone with some humility might re-examine what they were 'watching'.

Dougie Hamilton is credited with more shot attempts by 2 shot attempts per 60 minutes. If you think 'your eyes' are able to pick that up, lol. They both shoot the puck a lot.

Sevo shoots to create opportunities for teammates way more than dougles. Hamilton is trying to score himself everytime. Pp needs to be a unit that works together

 

[Buck Dancer]

You don't know what to tell me because your eye test was just shown to be shit. If you can't notice that Damon Severson is shooting the puck a ton on the power play, I don't know what to tell you - my assumption was that these numbers would be about equal, maybe Dougie a little higher, but turns out nope, Damon's higher, and he takes a higher percentage of shots. The idea that someone taking 27% of the shots while on the ice is 'the pivot guy' is absurd, and someone with some humility might re-examine what they were 'watching'.

Dougie Hamilton is credited with more shot attempts by 2 shot attempts per 60 minutes. If you think 'your eyes' are able to pick that up, lol. They both shoot the puck a lot.

Hamilton is riddled with injuries and played 18 less games. I'm happy for you that your stats are showing what you're saying but in a normal year, where the guy doesn't have to get his jaw rewired and doesn't have to battle a mysterious injury, he'd be blowing Severson out of the water in that category. As some other poster mentioned, Hamilton shoots to score which can something kill the momemtum of PP and that's probably why he's not on our 1st unit, which is still crazy considering all the success he's had in his career doing just that.

As for Damon, his shot selection and accuracy should be enough for me to tell him to stop shooting so often but since teams have cought on to our system, which is to have Jack or Jesper control the puck more so than Severson, he's probably getting more open looks than usual. He has 5 goals on PP which is pretty mediocre when you're running a #1 unit.

 

[Triumph]

If you can't notice that Damon Severson is shooting the puck a ton on the power play, I don't know what to tell you - my assumption was that these numbers would be about equal, maybe Dougie a little higher, but turns out nope, Damon's higher, and he takes a higher percentage of shots. The idea that someone taking 27% of the shots while on the ice is 'the pivot guy' is absurd, and someone with some humility might re-examine what they were 'watching'.

Dougie Hamilton is credited with more shot attempts by 2 shot attempts per 60 minutes. If you think 'your eyes' are able to pick that up, lol. They both shoot the puck a lot.

 

[Triumph]

Hamilton is riddled with injuries and played 18 less games.

The stats are a percentage, so him playing less games means absolutely nothing.

I'm happy for you that your stats are showing what you're saying but in a normal year, where the guy doesn't have to get his jaw re-wired and doesn't have to battle a mysterious injury, he'd be blowing Severson out of the water in that category.

That's an assumption. One which, of course, you haven't bothered to check at all. What % of shots did Hamilton get on the Canes' power play? Guess what - I'm not going to look it up. I'm just going to let your floundering assumption twist out there, and remind you that in a post before this, you said Hamilton shoots 'way more' than Severson, when he's attempted 2 more shots per 60 minutes of PP time, and 60 minutes of PP time is basically 1/3rd of a season.

As for Damon, his shot selection and accuracy should be enough for me to tell him to stop shooting so often but since teams have cought on to our system, which is to have Jack or Jesper control the puck more so than Severson, he's probably getting more open looks than usual. He has 5 goals on PP which is pretty mediocre when you're running a #1 unit.

Severson hasn't been running the #1 unit all year and our PP is terrible, 5 goals is totally fine given those things. You didn't think he shot a lot before this conversation so why would you tell him to stop shooting?

 

[NJDevs26]

How hard is it to either admit someone else is right or just bow out of an argument when your point gets disproven as opposed to just inventing another narrative to paper over the initial faulty argument?

When your PP isn’t suited to your top defenseman who’s been elite offensively the rest of his career and the PP sucks in general despite having two PPG forwards maybe it’s the system + personnel deployment that needs to be changed and more an indictment of the staff than the player?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Jack and Jesper’s play on the PP of late has been just as much of an issue as whoever is on the point to my eye. Way too many low percentage passes being attempted. I think part of the solution to our woes could be lurking in the AHL with Holtz or possibly even Zetterlund.

 

[Buck Dancer]

The stats are a percentage, so him playing less games means absolutely nothing.



That's an assumption. One which, of course, you haven't bothered to check at all. What % of shots did Hamilton get on the Canes' power play? Guess what - I'm not going to look it up.



Severson hasn't been running the #1 unit all year and our PP is terrible, 5 goals is totally fine given those things. You didn't think he shot a lot before this conversation so why would you tell him to stop shooting?

I'm sure Hamilton is just dying to shoot pucks off a bum leg or with his new face shield where he can't see shit.

Severson has been running it since Dougie went down and has been on it ever since, so yeah, I'd say he's been running our top unit for close to 90% of the season. By the way, if it's horrible, maybe we should put the PP specialist we inked to a 7 year deal instead of a guy who has no business being there, considering it's been one of our achilies heal all year long. If Hamilton can't run our top unit, then this signing will be a complete nightmare, that much is for sure.

Does your % of shots count the shot attempts that didn't hit the net or just those that went on target?

 

[Camille the Eel]

Sevo shoots to create opportunities for teammates way more than dougles. Hamilton is trying to score himself everytime. Pp needs to be a unit that works together

my criticism of Hamilton on the top of the diamond formation is that the puck and the flow of the puck seems to stop on his stick for a second or two. With the speed of the game, successful power plays these days rely on a lot of touch passes. The puck has to keep moving when you are rotating it over the top of the diamond, and potentially across seams and letting the bumper guy move around too so that makes the defense react, plus you get your own people moving and switching positions and that too the defense has to react to . . . the whole theory is to make the defense react, to get the defense moving and over committed if possible, to get the defense reacting behind the pace of the play. That creates openings. The puck can move much faster and further with touch passes than the defense can keep up.

Hamilton hasn't shown himself to be particularly adept at that. Severson seems more natural at it. Not that we as a team have been particularly good at it. But Sevs is quite fluid offensively, not that it isn't sometimes fluidity engaged in occasionally very poor decision-making.

We've tended to get very static when Hamilton has been running things in that diamond formation this year.

 

[Buck Dancer]

my criticism of Hamilton on the top of the diamond formation is that the puck and the flow of the puck seems to stop on his stick for a second or two. With the speed of the game, successful power plays these days rely on a lot of touch passes. The puck has to keep moving when you are rotating it over the top of the diamond, and potentially across seams and letting the bumper guy move around too so that makes the defense react, plus you get your own people moving and switching positions and that too the defense has to react to . . . the whole theory is to make the defense react, to get the defense moving and over committed if possible, to get the defense reacting behind the pace of the play. That creates openings. The puck can move much faster and further with touch passes than the defense can keep up.

Hamilton hasn't shown himself to be particularly adept at that. Severson seems more natural at it. Not that we as a team have been particularly good at it. But Sevs is quite fluid offensively, not that it isn't sometimes fluidity engaged in occasionally very poor decision-making.

We've tended to get very static when Hamilton has been running things in that diamond formation this year.

Those are all valid points but if our PP is horrible with Severson, maybe we should try something else, like giving our best offensive dman the liberty of doing what he got paid to do, no? We're not slidding Jack or Jesper onto the 2nd unit, so might as well try Hamilton for the remainder of the season and see if we can generate some type of momemtum for next year.

It's just weird to me that we would go out and hand a guy a huge deal and not utilize him in situations where he clearly excels.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

How hard is it to either admit someone else is right or just bow out of an argument when your point gets disproven as opposed to just inventing another narrative to paper over the initial faulty argument?

When your PP isn’t suited to your top defenseman who’s been elite offensively the rest of his career and the PP sucks in general despite having two PPG forwards maybe it’s the system + personnel deployment that needs to be changed and more an indictment of the staff than the player?

100% the correct conclusion. Wrecky sucks.

 

[Triumph]

I'm sure Hamilton is just dying to shoot pucks off a bum leg or with his new face shield where he can't see shit.

You're right, he's just looking to pass the puck. It's much easier to hit a stick blade with a pass than a 6 foot wide goal net.

Severson has been running it since Dougie went down and has been on it ever since, so yeah, I'd say he's been running our top unit for close to 90% of the season. By the way, if it's horrible, maybe we should put the PP specialist we inked to a 7 year deal instead of a guy who has no business being there, considering it's been one of our achilies heal all year long. If Hamilton can't run our top unit, then this signing will be a complete nightmare, that much is for sure.

It's not close to 90% of the season, you are making shit up, as you always do. And then you just move on to blathering the same old nonsense. You say one paragraph up that Hamilton has a bum leg and a face shield where he can't see shit, and now you say he should go on PP1. See, you need Hamilton to be hurt to make excuses for why you were wrong about how often he shoots relative to Severson, but he has to go to PP1 because of the reasons you just made up here.

Does your % of shots count the shot attempts that didn't hit the net or just those that went on target?

You have 2000 posts on here on this name, god knows how many on the others you've had over the years, and you don't know this. I don't like gatekeeping but I've just got to insult your reading comprehension first. It counts every shot attempted. Hamilton is attempting very slightly more shots, Severson has had more shots on goal.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Those are all valid points but if our PP is horrible with Severson, maybe we should try something else, like giving our best offensive dman the liberty of doing what he got paid to do, no? We're not slidding Jack or Jesper onto the 2nd unit, so might as well try Hamilton for the remainder of the season and see if we can generate some type of momemtum for next year.

It's just weird to me that we would go out and hand a guy a huge deal and not utilize him in situations where he clearly excels.

It seems to be what we are doing but by fits and starts and in a half assed way too. The game we lost in Toronto on a shorthanded goal we had both Sevs and Hamilton out there. Some times we’ve had just Hamilton start. Sometimes just Sevs. There’s nothing consistent and maybe rightfully so as the coaches react to the last painful shortie we give up. If Hamilton was actually the QB of a successful power play in Carolina or Calgary (something I assumed but don’t actually know) - maybe someone on the staff should watch some tape and see what worked for or with him then.

 

[Buck Dancer]

You're right, he's just looking to pass the puck. It's much easier to hit a stick blade with a pass than a 6 foot wide goal net.



It's not close to 90% of the season, you are making shit up, as you always do. And then you just move on to blathering the same old nonsense. You say one paragraph up that Hamilton has a bum leg and a face shield where he can't see shit, and now you say he should go on PP1. See, you need Hamilton to be hurt to make excuses for why you were wrong about how often he shoots relative to Severson, but he has to go to PP1 because of the reasons you just made up here.



You have 2000 posts on here on this name, god knows how many on the others you've had over the years, and you don't know this. I don't like gatekeeping but I've just got to insult your reading comprehension first. It counts every shot attempted. Hamilton is attempting very slightly more shots, Severson has had more shots on goal.

Yeah, because the goal is to hit the net and not the mesh... great call lol.

As for our PP, if it stinks like you seem to say and were we actually agree... why not switch things up? I know, it's a crazy idea, right? Sticking to something that isn't working when we signed a guy who's known to be a PP QB but refusing to play him in a role he's excelled all his life is probably to easy of a fix but for whatever reason, we're just rolling out the same guys with the same system.

I don't know this because I couldn't care less about % and all that other nonsense. It's great to use in a conversation because it probably makes you look smarter than you are but stats are stats and you can make any numbers say what you want to say. I don't know how anyone would assess a match back in the days when data wasn't a "trend". I'm pretty sure people back then had a very good idea of what to do and who they needed to better their team without the use of pie charts and fancy #'s. The use of analytics has crippled the views of fans who use it as gospel and has lessen the ability for some to have an opinion of their own after watching a game because "if the stats say so, it has to be right".

I'm not against it and I'm aware they can be useful but I will never use them as my primary option.

 

[Buck Dancer]

It seems to be what we are doing but by fits and starts and in a half assed way too. The game we lost in Toronto on a shorthanded goal we had both Sevs and Hamilton out there. Some times we’ve had just Hamilton start. Sometimes just Sevs. There’s nothing consistent and maybe rightfully so as the coaches react to the last painful shortie we give up. If Hamilton was actually the QB of a successful power play in Carolina or Calgary (something I assumed but don’t actually know) - maybe someone on the staff should watch some tape and see what worked for or with him then.

Yeah, I mean Fitz is no dummy and he knows what Hamilton can and can't do, I mean you don't hand over 63M$ to a guy and not fully know the in's and out's of his game.

I too think that our system is completely flawed and that we don't really know who to send out there other then Jack, Jesper and Bastian. We haven't figured out who our main PP QB is, Nico is there because he's the best forward we have after both J's but there doesn't seem to be a set game plan when we run our PP outside of having one of the guys on the side board skate towards the net and give a no look cross ice pass for a one timer. We have that play on lockdown but for the rest, it just seems like we're freestyling most of the time.

 

[NJDevs26]

Shots per 60 is not an ‘advanced stat’ in the way a subjective number or an invented metric is, that’s using actual numbers in a slightly more specialized way than just using SOG without context of icetime or situation.

 

[Triumph]

Yeah, because the goal is to hit the net and not the mesh... great call lol.

As for our PP, if it stinks like you seem to say and were we actually agree... why not switch things up? I know, it's a crazy idea, right? Sticking to something that isn't working when we signed a guy who's known to be a PP QB but refusing to play him in a role he's excelled all his life is probably to easy of a fix but for whatever reason, we're just rolling out the same guys with the same system.

I don't know this because I couldn't care less about % and all that other nonsense. It's great to use in a conversation because it probably makes you look smarter than you are but stats are stats and you can make any numbers say what you want to say. I don't know how anyone would assess a match back in the days when data wasn't a "trend". I'm pretty sure people back then had a very good idea of what to do and who they needed to better their team without the use of pie charts and fancy #'s. The use of analytics has crippled the views of fans who use it as gospel and has lessen the ability for some to have an opinion of their own after watching a game because "if the stats say so, it has to be right".

I'm not against it and I'm aware they can be useful but I will never use them as my primary option.

Pople had absolutely no f***ing idea what was going on before pie charts and made disastrous trades and signings literally all of the time.

Again, just take the L on this one. You contended that Severson 'doesn't shoot'. He shoots a lot. He shoots more than just about anybody on the PP. And here's the thing: I didn't look this shit up before today. This is what I've observed! I think Severson has poor shot selection, and I've always thought that, and guess what - the numbers support this! Your eyes are just bad, and your need to have a narrative about everything ('Hamilton shoots too much, he's not on PP1, Severson is, therefore Severson must not shoot a lot') corrupts your eyes. Watch the games closer.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Pople had absolutely no f***ing idea what was going on before pie charts and made disastrous trades and signings literally all of the time.

Again, just take the L on this one. You contended that Severson 'doesn't shoot'. He shoots a lot. He shoots more than just about anybody on the PP. And here's the thing: I didn't look this shit up before today. This is what I've observed! I think Severson has poor shot selection, and I've always thought that, and guess what - the numbers support this! Your eyes are just bad, and your need to have a narrative about everything ('Hamilton shoots too much, he's not on PP1, Severson is, therefore Severson must not shoot a lot') corrupts your eyes. Watch the games closer.

If that's the case, I'll gladly admit you were right on this one.

Having Severson shoot pucks on the PP is probably why we suck on the PP because the guy can't hit the back side of a barn to save his life, so if he's actually shooting more often than guys like Jack or Jesper, something's f***ing wrong here.

Saying people had no idea what to do before analytics came along is probably one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. So what you're saying is that we just tripped over success when we were winning division championships, conference titles and Stanley Cups over and over and over again when we were dominating the league for 2 decades+, right? If analytics are so great and they tell the entire story, teams shouldn't be as bad as us, Ottawa, Buffalo, Arizona, etc for that long and something would be done to correct that but that hasn't happened. In fact, most GM's that use analytics as gospel are either at the bottom of the standings or out of a job... that should tell you all you need to know right there.

 

[glenwo2]

Not you again. You just can’t help yourself

Yeah I can't help but point out faulty logic (ie. your comments regarding Dougie Hamilton which was pretty off-base, to say the least). Oh woe is me.

 

[HersheyBob27]

Yeah I can't help but point out faulty logic (ie. your comments regarding Dougie Hamilton which was pretty off-base, to say the least). Oh woe is me.

Keep working on that post buddy. You will get it right yet

 

[Triumph]

Saying people had no idea what to do before analytics came along is probably one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. So what you're saying is that we just tripped over success when we were winning division championships, conference titles and Stanley Cups over and over and over again when we were dominating the league for 2 decades+, right? If analytics are so great and they tell the entire story, teams shouldn't be as bad as us, Ottawa, Buffalo, Arizona, etc for that long and something would be done to correct that but that hasn't happened. In fact, most GM's that use analytics as gospel are either at the bottom of the standings or out of a job... that should tell you all you need to know right there.

Analytics do not tell the entire story, not even close. The league is so much better scouted now, and so are the lower leagues. Teams are watching way more tape. How the hell would you scout a guy in the 80s? NHL games weren't always televisied, I don't even know how good tape was back then, you had limited angles, so you had to send a guy to the game to watch a player. How many times would you do this? 3? Teams had way less money in those days, too, and the stakes for everything were also much lower. And teams traded players much more often!

The Devils didn't trip over success, but they sure overlooked some of the things that made them successful in Lou's later years. They also got a sizable dose of luck to be as successful as they were, and two of the Hall of Fame players that the Devils got they basically would not have now. The Devils traded for Tom Kurvers with a 3rd round pick in 1987 and traded him for a 1st round pick in 1991, that would just not happen now. Players cannot be used as compensation in offer sheets anymore, so Scott Stevenses can't move in deals for Brendan Shanahans. But you use the tools available to you, and one of the tools Fitzgerald has is an analytics department that knows what it is doing.