Post-Game Talk: Devils and caps 7:00

[marcel snapshot]

Kuzy getting in touch with his inner Dale Hunter with that cheap shot to Parenteau, though it looked like he might have pulled it back a bit and P.A. embellished. Whatever, reacting cheaply to a chirp from the guy that you served a pizza to earlier shows some glimmer of life from a guy whose game has just not been there most nights - and his lack of production is just not something we can afford.

He's overdue for a hot streak - and if it doesn't materialize soon, we may have to start re-thinking what it is we have in him.

 

[g00n]

Also someone make a compelling argument to me that Tom Wilson deserves to be in the lineup every night while it's okay that Daniel Winnik sits out for long stretches. Because I sure as hell can't figure that one out.

I can.

Winnik is a known commodity that probably isn't going to get any better due to games played. He's a veteran, journeyman forward who should understand his role by now and should be able to perform at an acceptable level when plugged into just about any bottom 6 line, even after sitting for a game or two while younger players get a look.

Wilson is still a young player with an unknown ceiling but a large amount of commitment to his development within the organization via financial and other resources. He can't be sent down so the only option is to scratch him, which does little or nothing for his development if he needs reps and chances.

That said I'm growing impatient with TW and I blame both TW and Trotz at this point. If he's neither a crusher or a rusher then he's going to be an usher.

 

[Roughing]

Trotz should have been fired after the last playoff choke job. He's where offense goes to die. Wrong damn coach for this team. And, yes, to be fair, the Caps aren't [nearly] as talented as many seem to think.

 

[twabby]

I can.

Winnik is a known commodity that probably isn't going to get any better due to games played. He's a veteran, journeyman forward who should understand his role by now and should be able to perform at an acceptable level when plugged into just about any bottom 6 line, even after sitting for a game or two while younger players get a look.

Wilson is still a young player with an unknown ceiling but a large amount of commitment to his development within the organization via financial and other resources. He can't be sent down so the only option is to scratch him, which does little or nothing for his development if he needs reps and chances.

That said I'm growing impatient with TW and I blame both TW and Trotz at this point. If he's neither a crusher or a rusher then he's going to be an usher.

It's just an inconsistent philosophy at that point. Trotz made mention of it not being a developmental league, but rather it being a winning league. So given that statement it seems like (minus certain roles needing to be filled) the 12 best forwards should dress most nights. The only role Wilson plays is as a PKer, and Winnik is probably just as good at that role.

I understand that Wilson can't be sent back to Hershey like Vrana or Sanford, but at what point do you consider his development a failure and just start playing the best 12 forwards? His offensive game has never developed (his 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons were almost identical in terms of points/60, and this year is way down), his possession game has never improved, and even his hitting has gone away.

At what point is he considered a veteran? I think he's already there.

 

[ovikovy817]

Kuzy getting in touch with his inner Dale Hunter with that cheap shot to Parenteau, though it looked like he might have pulled it back a bit and P.A. embellished. Whatever, reacting cheaply to a chirp from the guy that you served a pizza to earlier shows some glimmer of life from a guy whose game has just not been there most nights - and his lack of production is just not something we can afford.

He's overdue for a hot streak - and if it doesn't materialize soon, we may have to start re-thinking what it is we have in him.

Before that moment, Bennett interfered with Kuzya while the puck was on the other side of the rink.

 

[RandyHolt]

I think a heavy team hits every game. No, not logging league defined stats. The entire team plays physical all game long. Specifically taking time and space with force - skating straight at and through the puck carrier.

Cycling is very common around the league, and has little bearing on making a team heavy, IMAAO.

Ovi Wilson Orpik and few others are what made us "heavy" because of their hitting. Which was usually just to start games/series's. Ward made us... more one dimensional... call it slowO. You can't implement a high speed up tempo attack with a team of Wards. What's left to do? Slow play it and grind away. Is that heavy? Wardos require more dump chase and cycle, and pray for a PP or tired Dmen.

A guy adept at shielding the puck does not make him heavy. It's more what a team does without the puck that makes them heavy. I think the recent Kings cup winners played heavy, proper.

 

[marcel snapshot]

I think there's a real question as to whether the speed with which today's NHL defensemen can get the puck out of trouble - either because they're faster at skating it out of trouble or more adept at moving it quickly - has just negated the value of the "heavy" game. A big feature of the heavy game is predicated on deliberately surrendering possession, getting the puck down below the goal line and then re-gaining possession by punishing the D guys. It can work when you have an NHL D-corps that consists mostly of Mike Weber types. But those guys are basically extinct now - and so the risks and downsides associated with deliberately surrendering possession are exacerbated. And those risks are further compounded by the ****-poor board play of 3 of our 4 lines that folks have been discussing here.

It still make sense for Beagle-Winnik-Wilson to play that game - because they're relatively low-skilled puck hounds who are good on the boards. But the other 3 lines at this point have to try to play a high-tempo, possession game - because they suck at puck retrieval down low and board play, and the D they're playing against are just too good at negating the heavy game by retrieving and counter-moving the surrendered puck quickly.

 

[Ajax1995]

I'm not arguing necc. that Vrana should be in the line-up. I'm simply saying I don't think that accountability is demanded equally throughout the team. There are quite a few players of late who have not been producing and they aren't being "held accountable", AKA seeing reduced minutes or being scratched.

Again, I think there is something specific they are not happy with, not just some general 'not producing' issue. I agree that if he was benched simply for not producing then most of the team would be a candidate for having a night off for the same reason.

 

[Ajax1995]

Trotz should have been fired after the last playoff choke job.

I don't see losing to a team that was better than you over the last 3+ months of the season as a choke job personally.

If you break their records up by calendar months the Caps are a ton better over the first 3 months, 37 games. But over the last 4 months, 45 games, the Pens were the better team.

As long as you get in the playoffs what you did in the first few months of the season doesn't have much if anything to do with what you are going to do in the playoffs IMO outside of your actual seeding.

If I could choose either to have the better record overall or over the 2nd half of the season going into a playoff matchup I would take the latter every time.

 

[Mickstix]

I'm simply saying I don't think that accountability is demanded equally throughout the team. There are quite a few players of late who have not been producing and they aren't being "held accountable", AKA seeing reduced minutes or being scratched.

As an organization, the Caps don't bench top 6 Forwards or top 4 Dmen, "unless" they're still considered a development case (3 years exp. or less) Veterans in upper lines, don't get held accountable for much of anything that I can tell..

 

[Ajax1995]

As an organization, the Caps don't bench top 6 Forwards or top 4 Dmen, "unless" they're still considered a development case (3 years exp. or less) Veterans in upper lines, don't get held accountable for much of anything that I can tell..

Though I'm sure many around here would like this to not be the case, I don't think this is particular to the Caps...

 

[txpd]

I am probably wrong. I don't think Vrana sitting had anything to do with accountability. He was not being punished. He looked a little out of gas. His results had dropped off. He had gone from being the most visible player on the ice to invisible.

I think its as simple as the team is in a long stretch of playing games every other night. AHL players play on the weekends. Its not unusual. Perruttu did it for a couple years. Called up. 6 or 8 good games and then he would tail off tired.

Vrana is a kid. He is gassed. That's all

 

[HecticGlow]

I am probably wrong. I don't think Vrana sitting had anything to do with accountability. He was not being punished. He looked a little out of gas. His results had dropped off. He had gone from being the most visible player on the ice to invisible.

I think its as simple as the team is in a long stretch of playing games every other night. AHL players play on the weekends. Its not unusual. Perruttu did it for a couple years. Called up. 6 or 8 good games and then he would tail off tired.

Vrana is a kid. He is gassed. That's all

And what is great about the current team compared to this time last year is that you can take out a Burakovsky, Vrana, Connolly or Winnik and put in someone who has had time to reset, get hungry and then go out and score. That wasn't the case last year with Latta and Galiev as the 12/13th forward.

 

[g00n]

I am probably wrong. I don't think Vrana sitting had anything to do with accountability. He was not being punished. He looked a little out of gas. His results had dropped off. He had gone from being the most visible player on the ice to invisible.

I think its as simple as the team is in a long stretch of playing games every other night. AHL players play on the weekends. Its not unusual. Perruttu did it for a couple years. Called up. 6 or 8 good games and then he would tail off tired.

Vrana is a kid. He is gassed. That's all

Wait, you think playing every other night is harder than playing 3 nights in a row, or 3 games in 4 nights, like they frequently do in the AHL?

 

[txpd]

Wait, you think playing every other night is harder than playing 3 nights in a row, or 3 games in 4 nights, like they frequently do in the AHL?

yes....I realize they play 3 games in a row in the AHL. It might be all of them are tired on Sunday. They then get four days without a game with regularity to recover. No, they are not used to playing a game every other night. Ive heard players talk about this in the past. They are also not used to the travel. This one home game. one road game back and forth is not helpful

But like I said, I could be wrong. He think he is in the doghouse then? ok