Post-Game Talk: Devils 7 Canucks 2 (Podkolzin, Pearson)

[mriswith]

On a side note, it also bugs me how people talk like the goalie isn't part of the team or something. "Well if they don't get great goaltending from Demko they can't win." Ok? I mean, you don't hear people saying "well yeah if the Leafs didn't have Matthews scoring 40+ goals they wouldn't be winning as much." The Canucks have a great goalie who they drafted and developed. Why should it be a bad thing that they rely on him for big saves? To me it's no different than having a star forward or D carrying the team, honestly.

It's not about "winning a little more or less". It's about wanting to win a cup.

We want to be cup contenders and no team can win a cup with one player carrying the team every game - see McDavid and Draisatl in Edmonton or Hasek in Buffalo.

You can't win in the playoffs relying on one player to stay hot for all four rounds. As we saw in the Luongo years, even superstar vezina calibre goalies have bad nights. If we're a bottom 5 team in the league when we get league average goaltending, then we can never win a game when Demko is having an off night in the playoffs when it counts.

That matters because it means the team needs to orient itself towards figuring out how it can make itself into a contender, not crossing our fingers while watching the OOT scoreboard hoping other teams win and lose the right games so we can limp into a wild card. And not holding on to assets that should be sold because we're desperate to limp.

god, I can’t believe some people are still tilting at that windmill, the idea that anyone thinks players are being told to throw games. That straw man should have been picked clean 20 years ago.

It's not that. It's POM either not understanding the point he was arguing with, or he's arguing that if we sell at the deadline it's the equivalent of conceding without trying and telling the players to give up. I can't tell which.

 

[Melvin]

Talking for months about what? About how Demko is going to play every game for the rest of the season?

we were talking about this specific road trip a month ago, yea, as it was very foreseeable that this was the most likely spot where Halak would potentially get his 10th start. And it’s not hard to say hey, maybe we don’t need to start Halak just because we have two games in two nights in essentially the same city. We can kick that can down the road a bit.

 

[MS]

we were talking about this specific road trip a month ago, yea, as it was very foreseeable that this was the most likely spot where Halak would potentially get his 10th start. And it’s not hard to say hey, maybe we don’t need to start Halak just because we have two games in two nights in essentially the same city. We can kick that can down the road a bit.

The next B2B wasn't until March 23-24, after the trade deadline. I don't know how you don't wait for that, at least.

We've been talking about this since December, when they weirdly gave him a start on December 30 - which was a B2B, but the whole team had had a two-week break that ended on December 29. Demko was totally rested.

 

[pitseleh]

Like I said, did you expect Demko to play literally every game for the rest of the season?
No?

Ok, so the next time Halak played, all these comments would be exactly the same, but just come at a later date in the calendar.
I don't see the difference.

Except now with less games remaining, maybe after the trade deadline, and with less time to assess what to do with Halak.

I am not sure how anything I said suggests that Demko should play every game for the rest of the season.

Demko should play every game except where he needs a rest. If he needs a rest, he shouldn't be asked to play mop up duty in a game that is out of hand. They played him last night, which suggests he didn't need a rest.

Either he didn't need a rest last night or they played him in mop up duty when he needed a rest. Either is a bad decision.

 

[Melvin]

I am not sure how anything I said suggests that Demko should play every game for the rest of the season.

Demko should play every game except where he needs a rest. If he needs a rest, he shouldn't be asked to play mop up duty in a game that is out of hand. They played him last night, which suggests he didn't need a rest.

Either he didn't need a rest last night or they played him in mop up duty when he needed a rest. Either is a bad decision.

but also, yes? He probably could have played every game the rest of the season. It is not a gruelling schedule.

 

[Peen]

They played him last night, which suggests he didn't need a rest.

Either he didn't need a rest last night or they played him in mop up duty when he needed a rest. Either is a bad decision.

I don't agree with this at all

Your backup is getting f***ing roasted and can't stop a beach ball.

Dude looked lifeless and lost. You had to stop the bleeding, otherwise I have literally no doubts that game hits 10 goals against.

I don't agree with starting Halak - I mean, then again, maybe they could just sense Demko was fatigued or something even though he dominated once they put him in - but anyways, I also don't see issue with stopping the bleeding.

 

[Melvin]

I don't agree with this at all

Your backup is getting f***ing roasted and can't stop a beach ball.

Dude looked lifeless and lost. You had to stop the bleeding, otherwise I have literally no doubts that game hits 10 goals against.

oh no, and then they actually deduct standings points!

 

[Peen]

oh no, and then they actually deduct standings points!

bad response and you know it

 

[pitseleh]

I don't agree with this at all

Your backup is getting f***ing roasted and can't stop a beach ball.

Dude looked lifeless and lost. You had to stop the bleeding, otherwise I have literally no doubts that game hits 10 goals against.

I don't agree with starting Halak - I mean, then again, maybe they could just sense Demko was fatigued or something even though he dominated once they put him in - but anyways, I also don't see issue with stopping the bleeding.

I disagree. All else being equal, or if the roles were reversed, sure stop the bleeding. But losing 10-1 instead of 6-1 doesn’t really matter relative to giving Demko the rest the team thinks he needs.

 

[Melvin]

bad response and you know it

There's no difference between losing 7-2 and losing 10-2. None whatsoever.

If Demko needs a rest he needs a rest. Suck it up, Halak. What's he going to do, pull a Patrick Roy and demand a trade? Oh wait.

 

[M2Beezy]

The next B2B wasn't until March 23-24, after the trade deadline. I don't know how you don't wait for that, at least.

We've been talking about this since December, when they weirdly gave him a start on December 30 - which was a B2B, but the whole team had had a two-week break that ended on December 29. Demko was totally rested.

Apparently Halak is well respsected around the league and with the team. Would have reflected quite badly on coaching and management if they didnt let him start 10 games in 82 games this year, no matter how stupid the signing was. I know its a business, but seems to me they had to add in this calculation

 

[theguardianII]

..and you obviously have no idea how professional athletes are wired..conceding is a non starter.

The acorn doesn't fall to far from the tree.

The key word is "professional". Some of these players business is their bodies ability to perform so they can get a pay raise and longer contracts.

For some they have to go all out to stay in the NHL and get a big pay day.

But for some they are not going to blow up THEIR business to try to accomplish something that they KNOW is a long shot.

Horvat has played here for going on nine years and this is the closest to a real playoff spot they have achieved. For him maybe getting traded early is something he see's as getting a new opportunity, a refresher with a competitive team. He might have been "professionalized" tot eh point that there is no sense to blow out a knee, sperate a shoulder or break a foot for this group.

The players know, player on teams know what is what. If not performing to 110% can get them an extra year and moved to a team that has a real chance at a cup run, they might just do it.

Why do you think Pettersson stated he wanted to see where the team was in another 2 years, what direction it was going BECAUSE he wanted to play in the playoffs and for a cup. He knew.
Miller saying he wanted out!
Horvat saying he was tired of all the losing.

These guys won't quit on purpose but their resolve is less. They don't get a pay bump to play in the real season, well a very small bump but they are already playing the best they have and they are still not good enough to win two series worth of wins in the regular season playing not very good teams.

Does management even have to say "TANK"? No. The players, those that could be around know where superstar players come from, they have seen it in teams they play, all those young stars on young teams that have a plan or structure.

Would you purposely prevent Horvat the chance at a cup run or two? Just to watch him be "professional"? A question for many fans really.

 

[theguardianII]

I guess the game could be;

"oh well, it is just one game" for the 400th (losses) time in the last 8 years.

 

[Get North]

Hoglander is not as good as Bratt, Sharngovich and Mercer. But he's still a top 6/9 winger on almost all NHL teams. He's got potential to be a Zuccarello/Hagelin type player which is worth hanging around to.

2000 born kid too, super young. He's younger by a lot to most NJD players.

 

[Melvin]

Apparently Halak is well respsected around the league and with the team. Would have reflected quite badly on coaching and management if they didnt let him start 10 games in 82 games this year, no matter how stupid the signing was. I know its a business, but seems to me they had to add in this calculation

its called a performance bonus for a reason.

If he wants 10 starts he should play well enough to merit 10 starts.

the idea that he’s entitled to it is such bizarre reasoning.

 

[M2Beezy]

its called a performance bonus for a reason.

If he wants 10 starts he should play well enough to merit 10 starts.

the idea that he’s entitled to it is such bizarre reasoning.

Not saying at all he is entitled to it. He did play ok as a backup for much of the year to deserve it Melvin. He has stunk up the joint the last three games and if he had played like that all year then I would 100% agree with you. But that is not the case nor what I am saying, his numbers were very good as a backup til these last three games. Such a bizarre twist on your part

 

[AzNightmare]

I am not sure how anything I said suggests that Demko should play every game for the rest of the season.

Demko should play every game except where he needs a rest. If he needs a rest, he shouldn't be asked to play mop up duty in a game that is out of hand. They played him last night, which suggests he didn't need a rest.

Either he didn't need a rest last night or they played him in mop up duty when he needed a rest. Either is a bad decision.

I think our definition of "need" is different. Yes, if Demko had it his way, he would want to play every game. All competitive athletes do. If the fans had it their way, they would want him to play the entire season. It gives us the best chance to win.
But that's not how goalie management works from a coach's perspective. They need to make a judgement call to not burn out a goalie, before they get burnt out, not after. You don't play the backup only when your starter is so fatigued, he's basically a pylon if he were to go out that night. And in that same reasoning, that's why Demko is still capable of going out as "mop up duty", because he's not so fatigued that he can't even play at all.

but also, yes? He probably could have played every game the rest of the season. It is not a gruelling schedule.

As mentioned earlier, that's not how managing the workload works. Demko is already tied in 2nd for the most games played in the league. Halak was going to get his 10 games regardless, so I don't see why you keep getting emotionally attached over it. Demko wasn't going to play 73 games. Come on...

Halak's last 5 starts before last night were:
.929, .870, .971, .952 .583
3 very good games, his last start vs NYI was turd.
There's no logical reason why he wouldn't deserve to play another game for the rest of the season. Not because he's entitled to play. But because the fact Demko isn't going to play 73 games, Halak is supposed to be the reliable backup, so the Canucks need him to play eventually. If he had a bounce back game and won, this would all be moot.

There's no difference between losing 7-2 and losing 10-2. None whatsoever.

If Demko needs a rest he needs a rest. Suck it up, Halak. What's he going to do, pull a Patrick Roy and demand a trade? Oh wait.

Team morale exists. No team wants to lose double digits or go out completely washed out. It's not just for the goalie, but the rest of the team too. It's very necessary to stop the bleeding or even the rest of the team is going to skate like pylons.

Would you say if a team is getting blown out, maybe the skaters should also just pack it in and quit, cause there's literally no difference in the standings? It's just a bad look that's going to carry over. Go out swinging even if the game is out of reach, and the right attitude will carry over to the next game. I'm not sure why you're making it sound like this is some new phenomena that a backup that's getting shell gets pulled. Every team does this for a reason. Even on the 2nd leg of back to back games.

I get it... you're passionate and want the team to win, you have zero respect for Halak by this point, but maybe you also don't understand the psychology side of sports. You're clearly getting very emotional over this that I don't think you're making very rational thoughts.

 

[mossey3535]

I think part of it is that this is what Benning would have done, which is be very partial to Halak and his contract.

Personally, I am a little annoyed that they aren't being cutthroat enough but that is my bias towards the previous regime and their moves which were for dumb reasons.

For now I'm willing to give JR/PA the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps treating him well will help him waive his NTC in the off-season.

At least with the current management there's some chance that this was done for strategic reasons rather than just bending over backwards for a player's agent.

Still, would have been great to get out from under yet another bloated contract......

PS You still should rest Demko. He has now played more games than he ever has in his career at this level, even more than he has in the AHL. A lot of things broke in his favour such as extended time off (yes, his rhythm was disrupted but overall it was probably good for him physically). This is the time when you would start to see signs of loss of mental focus and/or physical fatigue when a first-time starter tries to take on this workload. If he plays all the remaining games that will be 43+27 = 70 games (according to hockey ref they have played 55 games).

That is a dumb workload in today's NHL. The days of Brodeur/Roy playing 70+ games was a fluke and created unrealistic expectations in head coaches. You could see Marky in years past start to accumulate fatigue and he only got in 60 games max with the Canucks. Vasilevsky has only played max 65 and he's probably the best goalie on the planet. Pre-lockout guys were topping off around 67 GP, and I think that's a bit high.

I don't think is going to be a playoff team, so why risk letting him get injured if we're out of it? If we do make the playoffs, managing his starts is doubly important because you want him to have gas in the tank for the important games. Either way, your rest management of him has to start now, which is why Halak started this game, and rightfully so IMO.

 

[me2]

Might as well okay Halak a lot for the next couple of weeks. Either he rebounds and gets trade value or stinks and gets us a 5 position jump in the draft (worth a 2nd+).

 

[valkynax]

What do you propose they do..?..Concede, and pack it in, without trying..?..Have the GM walk into the dressing room and announce "we're giving up lads'..?...That is sad and pathetic...

You think GMs should broadcast their every intention with a megaphone like that dumb f*** JEB?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You think GMs should broadcast their every intention with a megaphone like that dumb f*** JEB?

Benning the boogeyman is gone….Its no coincidence you only come out of the woodwork after losses..To justify your labeling of them as a ‘shit roster’

Two months ago ,this team didn’t even have a pulse,and they’ve fought back..demonstrating that they do indeed have some internal pride….and you find that ‘sad and pathetic’…?

 

[valkynax]

Benning the boogeyman is gone….Its no coincidence you only come out of the woodwork after losses..To justify your labeling of them as a ‘shit roster’

Two months ago ,this team didn’t even have a pulse,and they’ve fought back..demonstrating that they do indeed have some internal pride….and you find that ‘sad and pathetic’…?

How's the team's record after the Bruce Boudreau bump?

For the rest of the season the team has to play better than the Penguins in order to have the remotes shot at the ever-so-sought-after participation trophy that you think is a monumental achievement. It's sad and pathetic that you think this roster can get anywhere within several light years of the cup. Will you be happy to see the team turn into a playoff round 1 bubble that bursts year after year? Or do you buy into JEB's "in playoff anything can happen" bullshit?

But hey, results speak louder than words. The team after the initial adrenaline rush has been playing .500 hockey, as the way this roster was constructed to do. So far the result has been less than impressive to say the least, but if you're satisfied with .500 hockey of mediocrity, all the power to you.

EDIT: also, you think I come out only when the team loses? You clearly either didn't see my reaction to the Flames game or you're straight up lying/making up bulllshit.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How's the team's record after the Bruce Boudreau bump?

For the rest of the season the team has to play better than the Penguins in order to have the remotes shot at the ever-so-sought-after participation trophy that you think is a monumental achievement. It's sad and pathetic that you think this roster can get anywhere within several light years of the cup. Will you be happy to see the team turn into a playoff round 1 bubble that bursts year after year? Or do you buy into JEB's "in playoff anything can happen" bullshit?

But hey, results speak louder than words. The team after the initial adrenaline rush has been playing .500 hockey, as the way this roster was constructed to do. So far the result has been less than impressive to say the least, but if you're satisfied with .500 hockey of mediocrity, all the power to you.

EDIT: also, you think I come out only when the team loses? You clearly either didn't see my reaction to the Flames game or you're straight up lying/making up bulllshit.

Team is 6-4-0 in the month of Feb ... Of course you only like to cherrypick, and focus the sequence of games in Jan, where they had a skeleton lineup (with key players out), and were playing their 4th string goalie....Yes, all teams had to deal covid protocols, ours just happen to be in January (which affected the results)...The Canucks also have the best defensive record on the NHL since BB took over.
Whoever said this current roster was close to the cup, .?...lol..That's one hell of a straw filled comment...I'll tell you who believes that 'anything can happen' in the playoffs, (if you have a good goalie, and 4 solid lines)..Jim Rutherford.
I 'm not lying or making up BS......Its a 'shit roster', and and watching them claw their way back in the standings is 'sad and pathetic'...Your words, not mine.

 

[valkynax]

Team is 6-4-0 in the month of Feb ... Of course you only like to cherrypick, and focus the sequence of games in Jan, where they had a skeleton lineup (with key players out), and were playing their 4th string goalie....Yes, all teams had to deal covid protocols, ours just happen to be in January (which affected the results)...The Canucks also have the best defensive record on the NHL since BB took over.
Whoever said this current roster was close to the cup, .?...lol..That's one hell of a straw filled comment...I'll tell you who believes that 'anything can happen' in the playoffs, (if you have a good goalie, and 4 solid lines)..Jim Rutherford.
I 'm not lying or making up BS......Its a 'shit roster', and and watching them claw their way back in the standings is 'sad and pathetic'...Your words, not mine.

So you're totally ok with the team's highest achievement being the participation trophy? Got it. And 6-4-0 record is totally acceptable? Got it.

And again, you're believing every word Moleman says, assuming it's truth. Has it ever occur to you that he and others MAY not say what's in their mind?

The bar is just getting lower and lower and lower isn't it?

 

[wonton15]

I'm sorry but that confirms Chiasson stays in and this is Boudreau's fatal flaw showing. Leans on the most useless vets. Not that Hoglander is lighting it up but this is so stupid.