Post-Game Talk: Devils 7 Canucks 2 (Podkolzin, Pearson)

[Breakers]

Pettersson gets hot and then plays with Motte and Chiasson. What the hell are we doing here? Why even fire Green?

Even the Garrett let out a little questioning commet last night

"Now we have Pettersson, with Motte and Chiasson as a line...... ummmm, Ohhhk"

 

[supercanuck]

Yeah, that narrative can just crawl away and die please.
What the heck happened to Boeser? What a non event player he's become. He doesn't even look like he understands the game. Horvat has become Sutter. Completely unable to play with his teammates. Years of terrible coaching and mismanagement seem to have ruined these players, and there's years more of this stink on the team before the Benning taint is gone. It's surpassed the Kevin Lowe bar of franchise destruction. "oh darn"

Hopefully the team was able to save EP40. Who knows if he will ever get back to that superstar level though.

 

[AdvancedPressure]

I'm so old, I can remember a time when, if a team was in a "playoff race," playing a super important game, and it was a B2B with not much travel in between, the starter just plays both nights. When did it just become completely out of the question that this happens? Am I crazy?

Like, it's funny to me how quickly things change where Demko starting both games doesn't even seem like it was a consideration. Yes, it's B2B but it's a 25 minute drive between the arenas. And the next game is an hour away on Thursday. Halak has been garbage and OK you don't want to carry Martin, but it's just become like this dogma that you must start a different goalie in both sides of a B2B. Demko starting both is out of the question! Absurd! I'm not sure when exactly this happened. Luongo definitely had his share of dual B2B starts. Did Markstrom ever?

You're not crazy. I'm old too and it drives me nuts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it if you've got a 1A / 1B tandem, or if you're 10 points up on the wildcard and you've got a cushion to work with, but with where the Canucks are at - and with how Halak has performed - they need to be going to Demko from here on out.

On a side note, it also bugs me how people talk like the goalie isn't part of the team or something. "Well if they don't get great goaltending from Demko they can't win." Ok? I mean, you don't hear people saying "well yeah if the Leafs didn't have Matthews scoring 40+ goals they wouldn't be winning as much." The Canucks have a great goalie who they drafted and developed. Why should it be a bad thing that they rely on him for big saves? To me it's no different than having a star forward or D carrying the team, honestly.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

The Canucks are in 19th so...let's not pretend that Vancouver is a whole lot better then the Devils!

19 is indeed a whole let better than 27.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

We didn't give him a multi-year deal.

Thank baby Jesus.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Shhhh….

never forget that 27 game sample.

8-0-1 forever.

Lol. Exactly. People wanna talk about the saviour he was. He’s literally .500 since that initial usual coaching change bump.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Sure, sure, and I've been a staunch advocate of the tandem system for a long time, but it's funny to me how it just suddenly went to 0. Like it's so automatic now that nobody even questions it. It's really fascinating to me how that sort of thing happens.

I think the talent gap for goalies has gotten much narrower as well. Back in the day, you kinda threw all your chips into 1 guy that "had it". Now, there is much more emphasis on in-system development and "Directors of Goaltending" for organizations. Used to be for a large number of teams that starting your back-up was a concession of 2 points and anything more was gravy. Goaltending mechanics have evolved into a focus on the mental game, and not so much on the athletic side of things. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Even the Garrett let out a little questioning commet last night

"Now we have Pettersson, with Motte and Chiasson as a line...... ummmm, Ohhhk"

It makes me wonder if Petey is one of the guys who isn’t adequately preparing himself for games.

 

[Breakers]

It makes me wonder if Petey is one of the guys who isn’t adequately preparing himself for games.

what does Petersson who has 20 points or something like that in his past 18 games have to do with him being paired with a guy who shouldn’t be in the NHL?

 

[Melvin]

You're not crazy. I'm old too and it drives me nuts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it if you've got a 1A / 1B tandem, or if you're 10 points up on the wildcard and you've got a cushion to work with, but with where the Canucks are at - and with how Halak has performed - they need to be going to Demko from here on out.

On a side note, it also bugs me how people talk like the goalie isn't part of the team or something. "Well if they don't get great goaltending from Demko they can't win." Ok? I mean, you don't hear people saying "well yeah if the Leafs didn't have Matthews scoring 40+ goals they wouldn't be winning as much." The Canucks have a great goalie who they drafted and developed. Why should it be a bad thing that they rely on him for big saves? To me it's no different than having a star forward or D carrying the team, honestly.

i mean, LOTS of people say “without McDavid the oilers are nothing.” Way more people than who say that for Demko.

 

[Orr4Norris]

what does Petersson who has 20 points or something like that in his past 18 games have to do with him being paired with a guy who shouldn’t be in the NHL?

That is kind of my point. Petey has put up points, seems to be getting back to his old self (though still has a ways to go) and yet, is not getting rewarded. He's still stuck on essentially the 4th line. And when Horvat's winger went down to injury, Petey's best winger was moved up to play with Horvat and he was stuck with our 13th forward. It's not like there are not ways to get Petey in the top 6. They could call up a C, or double shift him on occasion, but they are choosing not to. That's a bit of a reg flag to me, especially since our coach and GM have recently questioned the work habits and professionalism of some of the players.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You're not crazy. I'm old too and it drives me nuts. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it if you've got a 1A / 1B tandem, or if you're 10 points up on the wildcard and you've got a cushion to work with, but with where the Canucks are at - and with how Halak has performed - they need to be going to Demko from here on out.

On a side note, it also bugs me how people talk like the goalie isn't part of the team or something. "Well if they don't get great goaltending from Demko they can't win." Ok? I mean, you don't hear people saying "well yeah if the Leafs didn't have Matthews scoring 40+ goals they wouldn't be winning as much." The Canucks have a great goalie who they drafted and developed. Why should it be a bad thing that they rely on him for big saves? To me it's no different than having a star forward or D carrying the team, honestly.

Well said,...we have a good goalie..?..should we apologize for that..Are we cheating because we have good goaltending..?Goaltending is no different from any other position on the team...You either have or you don't.
We could have a great D, and an average goalie..?..but we have an average D, and a great goalie..(which has yielded the stingiest goals against than any other team in the league)

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

the NYR win is off set by the ANA loss.

This team trying to make playoffs would be a very sad and pathetic thing to witness.

What do you propose they do..?..Concede, and pack it in, without trying..?..Have the GM walk into the dressing room and announce "we're giving up lads'..?...That is sad and pathetic...

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

What do you propose they do..?..Concede, and pack it in, without trying..?..Have the GM walk into the dressing room and announce "we're giving up lads'..?...That is sad and pathetic...

You lack imagination.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You lack imagination.

..and you obviously have no idea how professional athletes are wired..conceding is a non starter.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

..and you obviously have no idea how professional athletes are wired..conceding is a non starter.

You for real think part of a "tank" is the GM going into the dressing room and telling the players to lose? at this point I hope you're being disingenuous because that is something I would expect a middle schooler playing NHL 22 would think.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You for real think part of a "tank" is the GM going into the dressing room and telling the players to lose?

No, that obviously wouldn't happen, but the idea of the team 'capitulating' to appease the impatient portion of the fanbase..isnt going to happen...Quitting isnt an option.

If having an imagination means involves quitting, or 'giving up'.(that involves no imagination)..Thats an incredibly weak standard for any professional organization.

 

[Fedz]

You for real think part of a "tank" is the GM going into the dressing room and telling the players to lose? at this point I hope you're being disingenuous because that is something I would expect a middle schooler playing NHL 22 would think.

While I agree with you completely, trading multiple bodies for the future says that and more without the GM ever entering the dressing room. We are already a mentally fragile enough group as is...give them as long as you can before making final deadline decisions.

There are a few bodies that if you don't think you can re-sign, you trade them, no questions asked. However, showing a little belief in the core isn't a bad idea and that's what they are balancing right now. Its easy not to trust management after the last eight seasons but you have to think Rutherford has half a clue how a dressing room works in and out.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

No, that obviously wouldn't happen, but the idea of the team 'capitulating' to appease the impatient portion of the fanbase..isnt going to happen...Quitting isnt an option.

If having an imagination means involves quitting, or 'giving up'.(that involves no imagination)..Thats an incredibly weak standard for any professional organization.

It's not that I disagree in principle, but I think there's hardly impatience from a group willing to hit the reset again on this team after 7 years of whatever that was, to enter another rebuild. I think that's patience in a nutshell. I think there's lots of impatience for seeing this team continue to wander in the desert as the Oilers and Sabres have.

And I don't think you quit on this season, FWIW. Most moves can wait til the offseason, but if you want to keep Petey and Demko around, you're probably going to have to turn it around quicker than a fan calling for sweeping changes would like.

While I agree with you completely, trading multiple bodies for the future says that and more without the GM ever entering the dressing room. We are already a mentally fragile enough group as is...give them as long as you can before making final deadline decisions.

There are a few bodies that if you don't think you can re-sign, you trade them, no questions asked. However, showing a little belief in the core isn't a bad idea and that's what they are balancing right now. Its easy not to trust management after the last eight seasons but you have to think Rutherford has half a clue how a dressing room works in and out.

Now, that being said there's always the caveat that you can say to the room, if you'd like to not go through this you should have performed better. Or something of that ilk, I think saying that outright would be a mistake. And to be honest, I think Bruce probably already had has this speech. I think it would be a bit of a spit in the face to guys like Demko, Miller, Garland, Motte, etc. who have put together good seasons relative to expectations.

Obviously, the roster is loaded with players performing below their contracts. I don't fault them for that, that's something else entirely but this group can hardly win a regular game without having Demko put together an ace game. This team is relying on their goaltending to do the heavy lifting. The skaters look awful without the puck. Again, I don't entirely fault them for that, but you have to make changes somewhere. Why does the team as a whole wilt under pressure? Why do we mysteriously take long stretches of play where we can't execute a breakout or enter the zone? There are way too many questions that are often the same ones that pop up with this team that goes beyond execution and looks to me to be a mental thing. Is it learned complacency? I don't know. But all I can say is that they don't *look* like winners. When bounces aren't going our way, there should be at least 4-5 guys that want to do *something* effective on the game to make an impact. 4-5 guys who say "f*** this" and do something out of the ordinary for them.

I'm not saying it's leadership, I'm just saying that for whatever reason this team is fine playing a passive game. And the only ones who want to make an impact aren't the ones who can turn the game around. Sure, it's great to see Schenn, Hamonic, etc. get in a mood and play physical, but their skill set is not to get too involved between whistles, set up any play, it's to clean up their own zone and go relatively unnoticed. Which is great, good for them they are trying, but no one takes a cue from that. Like this team IS very soft, but not for a lack of physicality, it's a lack of wanting to be physical. No one wants to get their hands dirty unless they have the puck. It's quite uninspiring to watch. If nothing is going right, they shrink. If everything is going right, they get scared. That needs to change, and at some point you realize that as a manager, you have to make that happen.

 

[Orr4Norris]

What a garbage effort in a game that would have seen them inch very close to a playoff spot. Another no show from Horvat, Brock and Petey which has been the norm this season. Yeah goaltending was bad, but NJ was a team you could outscore with some effort. There was none. They were flat out the gates and almost looked drunk/hungover with their decision making at times. Bruce looked defeated in his post game presser. With all the talk of a playoff push, I think this team has answered loud and clear with their efforts last night and against the Ducks. Time to focus on selling and rebuilding. No need to apologize to the players, they made their bed. I'm sure Miller and Motte would love a chance at the post season. (okay, I do feel for Demko...this really sucks for him)

 

[quat]

That is kind of my point. Petey has put up points, seems to be getting back to his old self (though still has a ways to go) and yet, is not getting rewarded. He's still stuck on essentially the 4th line. And when Horvat's winger went down to injury, Petey's best winger was moved up to play with Horvat and he was stuck with our 13th forward. It's not like there are not ways to get Petey in the top 6. They could call up a C, or double shift him on occasion, but they are choosing not to. That's a bit of a reg flag to me, especially since our coach and GM have recently questioned the work habits and professionalism of some of the players.

I wonder if they're trying to pump up the value of players they're considering moving on from? At least from that perspective some of these lineup decisions make sense.

 

[Melvin]

You for real think part of a "tank" is the GM going into the dressing room and telling the players to lose? at this point I hope you're being disingenuous because that is something I would expect a middle schooler playing NHL 22 would think.

god, I can’t believe some people are still tilting at that windmill, the idea that anyone thinks players are being told to throw games. That straw man should have been picked clean 20 years ago.

 

[AzNightmare]

Except that you don’t play Halak because he was going to play eventually. You play him because Demko needs a rest. There’s no reason to give him his next turn until that time comes.

Like I said, did you expect Demko to play literally every game for the rest of the season?
No?

Ok, so the next time Halak played, all these comments would be exactly the same, but just come at a later date in the calendar.
I don't see the difference.

Except now with less games remaining, maybe after the trade deadline, and with less time to assess what to do with Halak.

 

[AzNightmare]

There’s no loophole or need for any weird game to game arrangement? It’s literally no different from scratching Chiasson and dressing someone else. It’s just carrying an extra goalie on the roster, which they apparently don’t want to do.

there was no reason for Halak to start this game. That wasn’t hindsight, we’ve been talking about it for months. The schedule is extremely friendly. You don’t need to start him until you need to start him.

they started him so that he could collect the bonus that Jim Benning promised him. There’s no other reason.

moronically, now that he has his bonus he probably doesn’t play again.

Talking for months about what? About how Demko is going to play every game for the rest of the season?

 

[racerjoe]

What do you propose they do..?..Concede, and pack it in, without trying..?..Have the GM walk into the dressing room and announce "we're giving up lads'..?...That is sad and pathetic...

You mean like the Hawks basically just did? If that’s what is needed yes that is what I expect. I think the Canucks should be looking more at a retool though.