Post-Game Talk: Devils 5 Oilers 2 - welp

[harpoon]

Maybe Klefbom doesn't show up in the big games, even in his own country, even in a showcase game for him playing his only, ever, NHL game in his home country.

The quote is always going to be a tag line as long as he's an insignificant player.

Yup. I was just going to edit my post to say exactly this.
I guess maybe it wasn't a 'big game' in his mind?

 

[Missing smitty]

Yeah, I get that. Its self serving as hell when the coach or GM busts out that excuse.

But as fans who watched the games can we not agree that this team had a boat load of passengers last season?

How is it that pros who have played the game all their lives can't make a zone entry? How is it that they can't move the puck out of their own end with some degree of competency? How is it that they can't make crisp passes? How is it that they let in the first shot of the game thirteen times? How is it that they have such woeful special teams? Do they really need some guy in a suit to tell them how to play the game they've been playing since they were three? Its embarrassing.

I find it weak for management to 'blame' the players. But on the other hand the players lose the games on the ice. I just think the coach is one of the last guys who needs to shoulder the blame for the dreadful season the Oilers turned in last year. And honestly, if he is so bad, why doesn't the GM fire him? I think its because the GM knows he handed the coach a losing roster from the beginning and then they got decimated by injuries, Larsson's tragedy, and having a bunch of guys just cashing their checks. Not excusing McLellan. Just saying that imo his culpability is less than the GM, less than the owner and less than the guys who lost the games on the ice.

I agree they need to try harder, but zone entries and outlet passing are system things these days. This isn't 1985 where you just outskill the other team. Vegas has no business going as far as they did, but Gallant had a good system and they played it to a T. Unless you have inside information from the locker room, you have no idea what is happening in there, maybe Todd is a giant ass who yells and screams and they've turned him out. Maybe he's a spineless goober who they walk all over. I'm not letting Chiarelli off the hook, I think he's built a shitty team, but based on skill alone, they shouldn't have been as bad as they were last year. They are poorly executing a bad system.

 

[McIce Whole]

And then have another coach.? This will be like 7 coaches in the coaches in the last 10 years. That’s an unreasonable amount. The problem is clearly the organization, it’s been a mess since before the Katz took over. The easy answer is to actually remove the glory years oilers from the organization. Fresh blood in the hockey ops department and a new organizational culture. Full stop. Not half assed like they’ve been doing for years.

I agree with the second part wholeheartedly. I would love to get rid of everyone at the top and bring in a brand new team. But we both know the likelihood of that happening is close zero.

The second part I don’t agree with fully. The roster has changed drastically since we went through our revolving door of coaches phase. Since we drafted Mcdavid, we have only had one coach and that’s Todd.

Without even looking at our line up, Nuge and maybe Klef would be the only ones to go through different coaches with this team. For most of these players, getting a new coach would only be their second coach with this organization.

Factoring that in with how poor Todd was last season and his clear stubbornness/favouritism he shows, bringing in a new coach would not be a bad idea at all, IMO. When the special teams are dead last, there is something systematically wrong and it’s evident to everyone except McLellan.

 

[MessierII]

Yes. Klefbom is the only player better than those guys, and only when he's healthy and playing at 100%. Nurse has yet to play consistently well over a full season and Larsson is a one-dimensional #4. All 3 of those Vegas guys know how to move the puck. There's not a single player in our back end outside of a healthy Klefbom that knows how to make a breakout pass.

We’ve already made the playoffs with a top 3 of Klefbom, Larsson and Sekera so I find it a tough sell that not even Scotty Bowman could coach this current team to being competitive.

 

[StevenF1919]

We’ve already made the playoffs with a top 3 of Klefbom, Larsson and Sekera so I find it a tough sell that not even Scotty Bowman could coach this current team to being competitive.

That was done with every player having a career year, 0 injuries, a goalie playing far above his actual ability, and two wingers who scored 27 and 20 goals respectively who are no longer with the team.

 

[MessierII]

That was done with every player having a career year,

No it wasn’t. Who had a career year? In the top 4 just Klefbom. You could argue Benning for the other D men that’s it. In the top 6 just Draisaitl and Maroon. In fact Eberle and Nuge has arguebly their worst NHL seasons. In the bottom 6 I guess Letestu and Caguilla. Talbot obviously had a career year but he doesn’t necessarily need to be that good for us to be in the mix. 65 games at a .915 would do.

 

[StevenF1919]

No it wasn’t. Who had a career year? In the top 4 just Klefbom. You could argue Benning for the other D men that’s it. In the top 6 just Draisaitl and Maroon. In fact Eberle and Nuge has arguebly their worst NHL seasons. In the bottom 6 I guess Letestu and Caguilla. Talbot obviously had a career year but he doesn’t necessarily need to be that good for us to be in the mix. 65 games at a .915 would do.

Talbot had a Vezina-worthy season, Draisaitl, Maroon, Klefbom, and Letestu all hit career highs, Sekera was healthy and playing like a top pairing dman, Kassian and Lucic weren't useless, and we had 0 key injuries all year. How many of these things are going to happen again?

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

Talbot had a Norris-worthy season, Draisaitl, Maroon, Klefbom, and Letestu all hit career highs, Sekera was healthy and playing like a top pairing dman, Kassian and Lucic weren't useless, and we had 0 key injuries all year. How many of these things are going to happen again?

Why is our Norris defencemen playing goalie?

But yeah, we sent out way too much offense with little coming back to replace it. People have been warning about this since it happened with Hall. I think Eberle being shipped out for an experiment (that hasn't worked out too well) was the last straw. We HAVE to get rid of chia though before we can fix things. He would only make more bad moves if he was the one left to fix his own mistakes.

 

[MessierII]

Talbot had a Norris-worthy season, Draisaitl, Maroon, Klefbom, and Letestu all hit career highs, Sekera was healthy and playing like a top pairing dman, Kassian and Lucic weren't useless, and we had 0 key injuries all year. How many of these things are going to happen again?

That’s pretty much a normal season for any playoff team in any given year. You stay reasonably healthy some forwards have good years, D plays solid and you get good goaltending. That happens to 16 teams every year.

 

[StevenF1919]

Why is our Norris defencemen playing goalie?

But yeah, we sent out way too much offense with little coming back to replace it. People have been warning about this since it happened with Hall. I think Eberle being shipped out for an experiment (that hasn't worked out too well) was the last straw. We HAVE to get rid of chia though before we can fix things. He would only make more bad moves if he was the one left to fix his own mistakes.

*Vezina haha. The forwards are a disaster, no doubt about it. We aren't winning anything with this forward group.

That’s pretty much a normal season for any playoff team in any given year. You stay reasonably healthy some forwards have good years, D plays solid and you get good goaltending. That happens to 16 teams every year.

No, those things happen to teams like the 2013-2014 Avalanche, 2012-2013 Leafs, 2015-2016 Panthers, etc. Teams that rely on luck will always regress and miss again the next year. We weren't reasonably healthy that year, we were so healthy that our #1 goalie, top 6, and top 4 missed like 3 games total all season. If you're one key injury away from finishing in a lottery spot (McDavid, Talbot, any of Klefbom, Nurse, or Larsson) your team is not good enough.

 

[MessierII]

If you're one key injury away from finishing in a lottery spot (McDavid, Talbot, any of Klefbom, Nurse, or Larsson) your team is not good enough

What’s a lottery spot these days? Every team who misses is a lottery team.

 

[StevenF1919]

What’s a lottery spot these days? Every team who misses is a lottery team.

Should have said bottom 5, although technically I was still correct

 

[oljimmy]

I think all of this harping on the players is a little much. Yeah a lot of guys looked bad in game 1, yeah they have more to give, but why the HELL are they playing exactly the same systems as last year after hiring two new coaches? In spite of the fact that a team of nobodies made it to the SCF last year using a high-pressure, coordinated team defense and opportunistic counterattack, the Oilers continued to dump it in, play their dumb, one-man-in forecheck, have zero team coordination through the neutral zone and the result was easy zone entries for NJ.

A year after a bunch of teams started running an extremely effective new offense (moving out of the zone with speed in close formation with lots of puck support to maximize choices) the Oilers appear to have had exactly the same dumbshit plan as last year, i.e., one D-man recovers the puck, swings it over to the 2nd D who is standing COMPLETELY STILL looking for some kind of long-range bomb to throw to forwards who are literally nowhere to be seen.

A year after a historically bad PP where we kind of stand around and move the puck around and hope McDavid does something awesome, literally our only PP that didn't look dismal was the one where McDavid did something awesome.

Yeah I know I'm just a couch coach but this is as plain as day: these players are good enough to play a better system because almost any random collection of players in the NHL can play a better system. I don't know how else to say this... if games 2 -10 show no improvement in these regards the organization will be steaming straight towards a 2019 McDavid holdout. No number of trades can fix an organization that can't make these basic improvements.

 

[The Panther]

I think all of this harping on the players is a little much. Yeah a lot of guys looked bad in game 1, yeah they have more to give, but why the HELL are they playing exactly the same systems as last year after hiring two new coaches? In spite of the fact that a team of nobodies made it to the SCF last year using a high-pressure, coordinated team defense and opportunistic counterattack, the Oilers continued to dump it in, play their dumb, one-man-in forecheck, have zero team coordination through the neutral zone and the result was easy zone entries for NJ.

A year after a bunch of teams started running an extremely effective new offense (moving out of the zone with speed in close formation with lots of puck support to maximize choices) the Oilers appear to have had exactly the same dumb**** plan as last year, i.e., one D-man recovers the puck, swings it over to the 2nd D who is standing COMPLETELY STILL looking for some kind of long-range bomb to throw to forwards who are literally nowhere to be seen.

A year after a historically bad PP where we kind of stand around and move the puck around and hope McDavid does something awesome, literally our only PP that didn't look dismal was the one where McDavid did something awesome.

Yeah I know I'm just a couch coach but this is as plain as day: these players are good enough to play a better system because almost any random collection of players in the NHL can play a better system. I don't know how else to say this... if games 2 -10 show no improvement in these regards the organization will be steaming straight towards a 2019 McDavid holdout. No number of trades can fix an organization that can't make these basic improvements.

I don't disagree with any of this; I'm just telling people to be a little patient. One game is not enough to judge anything. Maybe after 15 games or more we can all get together and collectively justify guillotining McLellan.

I think a lot of people are just focusing their anger on McLellan because it's easy. The real enemy is Peter Chiarelli. Imagine being McLellan after the Hall -- Larsson or Eberle -- Strome trades and having to be the one to explain it to the media (since Chiarelli didn't). McLellan puts on a brave face and does his best, despite his boss trading away assets for minimal return. McLellan might also have his hands tied with the Lucic problem. You can't give 4th-line minutes to the guy making 7 million a year.

I regret watching an interview with Chiarelli a year ago (might have been the Bob McKenzie one?), because prior to that I hadn't ever seen him interviewed in person and I sort-of assumed he was bright and articulate. But my goodness, he came off as a clueless fool who lucked his way into the position. I realize being articulate and erudite isn't the job-description, but I think the GM should at least appear to have a clue. I mean, the Leafs have young Kyle Dumbass or what-his-name-is, who speaks like a Rhodes scholar. Chiarelli appears nervous and insecure when facing questions from the media, and doesn't have much to say. The man at the top has to look and act like the man at the top.

A good coach can look bad. Someone mentioned Scotty Bowman? Remember how he managed (and coached) Buffalo into the ground in the 80s, to the point where they were last overall by 1987 and he was fired?


The Oilers can no longer afford to "fire everyone!", and they seem to have figured this out. I think McLellan is good. I don't think Chiarelli is good based on what he's done and how he speaks. I do therefore wish Katz or whoever at the very top would intervene if the management gets any worse, but Katz always appears impotent.

 

[tsnTpoint]

That’s pretty much a normal season for any playoff team in any given year. You stay reasonably healthy some forwards have good years, D plays solid and you get good goaltending. That happens to 16 teams every year.

Can't agree more with this post.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

No it wasn’t. Who had a career year? In the top 4 just Klefbom. You could argue Benning for the other D men that’s it. In the top 6 just Draisaitl and Maroon. In fact Eberle and Nuge has arguebly their worst NHL seasons. In the bottom 6 I guess Letestu and Caguilla. Talbot obviously had a career year but he doesn’t necessarily need to be that good for us to be in the mix. 65 games at a .915 would do.

Not anymore. A .915 would have made you the 18th ranked starter last year.

 

[MessierII]

Not anymore. A .915 would have made you the 18th ranked starter last year.

18th is a hell of a lot better than the 30th. If we had the 18th best goaltending last year we win over 40 games.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

18th is a hell of a lot better than the 30th. If we had the 18th best goaltending last year we win over 40 games.

Our aim should never be 'below average'

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

We have the best player on the planet and the best we can hope for is to be mediocre.

Management/coaching hold this team back in so many ways.

 

[bucks_oil]

Our aim should never be 'below average'

Being "just below average" on this team might be the best you can ask for. Some talented forwards and questionable team defense means that your break downs are big ones. A Vezina capable G (which I believe Talbot is... go remind yourself of his career stats) might only be able to pitch "league average" on a below league average defensive team. It's a team stat.

 

[SaltNPeca]

I don't disagree with any of this; I'm just telling people to be a little patient. One game is not enough to judge anything. Maybe after 15 games or more we can all get together and collectively justify guillotining McLellan.

I think a lot of people are just focusing their anger on McLellan because it's easy. The real enemy is Peter Chiarelli. Imagine being McLellan after the Hall -- Larsson or Eberle -- Strome trades and having to be the one to explain it to the media (since Chiarelli didn't). McLellan puts on a brave face and does his best, despite his boss trading away assets for minimal return. McLellan might also have his hands tied with the Lucic problem. You can't give 4th-line minutes to the guy making 7 million a year.

I regret watching an interview with Chiarelli a year ago (might have been the Bob McKenzie one?), because prior to that I hadn't ever seen him interviewed in person and I sort-of assumed he was bright and articulate. But my goodness, he came off as a clueless fool who lucked his way into the position. I realize being articulate and erudite isn't the job-description, but I think the GM should at least appear to have a clue. I mean, the Leafs have young Kyle Dumbass or what-his-name-is, who speaks like a Rhodes scholar. Chiarelli appears nervous and insecure when facing questions from the media, and doesn't have much to say. The man at the top has to look and act like the man at the top.

A good coach can look bad. Someone mentioned Scotty Bowman? Remember how he managed (and coached) Buffalo into the ground in the 80s, to the point where they were last overall by 1987 and he was fired?


The Oilers can no longer afford to "fire everyone!", and they seem to have figured this out. I think McLellan is good. I don't think Chiarelli is good based on what he's done and how he speaks. I do therefore wish Katz or whoever at the very top would intervene if the management gets any worse, but Katz always appears impotent.

If we would 100% agree Chia made terrible moves you still have a decent NHL roster and the best player in the league. The coaching staff has to work with those pieces each and every game with the intention of making the playoffs, then one game at a time!

Every team, no matter what the GM sets up, can go thru injuries, slumps and other personnel changes the coach(es) have to deal with. They are a critical part of the team.

No McLellan hate, but...
He talked in the post-game about how well Jersey played as a group of 5. For me that is critical. The Oilers only thrive when McDavid has a killer game, when Drai went beast-mode in '17 playoffs, or Talbot stops 30-some shots in his 60-somethingth start. Maybe an eggageration, but they aren't playing a winning system (if any system, but "get it to McDavid"?). Need to be able to win with the guys we have, and kill teams when the stars have their special nights.
How can he not be embarrassed when the Hall-led NJD as a group outplay his McDavid-led Oilers? I would have liked him say directly that either the Oiler system sucks and needs to be changed, or the players didn't execute the system.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Another point: McLellan said something like "we got 1 PP goal, if we get that every game it's 82 in the season".

Wow. McDavid drove that play off the rush, pretty much like a 5on5 goal. I saw no progress on the Oiler PP system in this game. It didn't threaten and didn't sustain much pressure. Maybe I'm a stupid fan and they're on track for a big turnaround...

 

[GameChanger]

Another point: McLellan said something like "we got 1 PP goal, if we get that every game it's 82 in the season".

Wow. McDavid drove that play off the rush, pretty much like a 5on5 goal. I saw no progress on the Oiler PP system in this game. It didn't threaten and didn't sustain much pressure. Maybe I'm a stupid fan and they're on track for a big turnaround...

Even without any system the Oilers PP will be producing some goals due to McDavid and some others to a lesser extent. I certainly hope McLellan is at least smart enough to realize those goals happen anyway and have absolutely nothing to do with how well his PP is working. It didn't sound like that, though, but somewhere inside he really has to know what's going on.

 

[Yablo21]

Matt Benning is not an NHL player. He really is only in the league because he's a right shot.

And still was slotted on the Left side for the powerplay! WTF!

 

[harpoon]

They are poorly executing a bad system.

I think we can probably agree on this. Cheers.