Post-Game Talk: Devils 4, Penguins 3 - For Want of a Point

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Tom Hanks

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Our D (with or without Cole) isn’t built for being great without help from our forwards. As a collective they’ve been up and down all season. When they don’t provide support and just take off we are vulnerable. Most teams would be.
 

Ogrezilla

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I'm saying we did the worst thing in that scenario that we could do. I do think we miss Cole, I think it affected our chemistry. I think considering how he played prior to the trade it was a shock to the teams system.
and I'm saying that I agree to a degree, losing him did downgrade our D a bit. But there's just no way the loss of Ian Cole is the primary reason why we are giving up an extra 3/4 of a goal a game and why our PK has become 20% less effective.
 

Ryder71

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and I'm saying that I agree to a degree, losing him did downgrade our D a bit. But there's just no way the loss of Ian Cole is the primary reason why we are giving up an extra 3/4 of a goal a game and why our PK has become 20% less effective.
Then tell me what you primarily attribute it to. Because that's one hell of a coincidence.
 

Ryder71

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Our D (with or without Cole) isn’t built for being great without help from our forwards. As a collective they’ve been up and down all season. When they don’t provide support and just take off we are vulnerable. Most teams would be.
I thought our defense looked pretty solid in JAN and most of February.
 

Ogrezilla

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Then tell me what you primarily attribute it to. Because that's one hell of a coincidence.
I'm honestly not sure. What changed from Dec 31 to Jan 1? No clue, but the team flipped a switch. Then they fell back down after the deadline. And Murray being out surely didn't help. And he got hurt two days before the Cole trade. So same coincidence I guess.
I thought our defense looked pretty solid in JAN and most of February.
Our entire team did. They scored over 4 goals a game over that stretch. It's a lot easier to play defense behind the forwards playing like that. Up until then the defense struggled, including Cole.
 

Ryder71

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I'm honestly not sure. What changed from Dec 31 to Jan 1? No clue, but the team flipped a switch. Then they fell back down after the deadline. And Murray being out surely didn't help. And he got hurt two days before the Cole trade. So same coincidence I guess.

Our entire team did. They scored over 4 goals a game over that stretch. It's a lot easier to play defense behind the forwards playing like that. Up until then the defense struggled, including Cole.
OK so you attribute it largely to goaltending. Yep, agree to disagree. As far as our offense goes, we've scored well enough of late to win such games, offense really isn't much of the issue. IMO it's primarily our defense, terrible gap, coughing up the puck etc. Earlier in the season Cole really didn't play much. When he and Oleksiak were paired they were tremendous and the defense as a whole looked better.
 

Tom Hanks

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He made offers for the big fish, which was very time consuming and didn't afford him a lesser more minor acquisition.

Again, you're gonna assert that he can get a guy the caliber of Brass but couldn't get a lowly 3rd pairing defender? Come on.

Fine I guess you don’t believe him when he said he made multiple offers that he thought was more than fair.

We have 6 D that are good enough.
 
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Ogrezilla

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OK so you attribute it largely to goaltending. Yep, agree to disagree. As far as our offense goes, we've scored well enough of late to win such games, offense really isn't much of the issue. IMO it's primarily our defense, terrible gap, coughing up the puck etc.
Offense being worse is an issue with defense. The more you play offense, the less you play defense. The entire team is playing worse. Just because we are still scoring enough to win games doesn't mean the decline in our offense isn't hurting our defense.

You really just don't listen to all of what people are saying. You just take one part of it and run with it and ignore the rest. You ignored everything I said except the two sentences about Murray. Either you're doing this, or you're just stating your opinion as fact. It pretty much makes it impossible to actually discuss anything with you. Whatever, I'm going to bed.
 

Ryder71

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Fine I guess you don’t believe him when he said he made multiple offers that he thought was more than fair.

We have 6 D that are good enough.
We have 6 D that are good enough? How many do you think we'll actually need throughout the playoff grind? My guess is it will be seven or eight? What about you?
 

Ryder71

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Offense being worse is an issue with defense. The more you play offense, the less you play defense. The entire team is playing worse. Just because we are still scoring enough to win games doesn't mean the decline in our offense isn't hurting our defense.

You really just don't listen to all of what people are saying. You just take one part of it and run with it and ignore the rest. You ignored everything I said except the two sentences about Murray. Whatever, I'm going to bed.
I just don't agree with your premise at all. I think our problems are rather obvious, very very obvious actually. Not trying to ignore your perspective and opinion, just think it's faulty.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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You simply don't get it, do you? It's not that Cole is the be all and end all, but when you have no one of that Ilk it's a problem. He's a good PKer, solid positionally, physical and can help close out games. Players like that are very necessary to cup contenders. He's accorded himself rather nicely each of the last two playoff runs. We'll see how your buddy Letang does, and just how reliable he is when the stakes are the highest. Cause right now, he's a dumpster fire.

Well, considering last time he was in the playoffs Letang finished third in Smythe votes playing the most minutes of our d-core , I’ll take the risk.

I’m not really sure where the legend of Ian Cole is coming from, he’s been a healthy scratch every year of his career.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
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"I'm not going to put the best player in the world (on alternate days) out for a shift of pond hockey 3 on 3 where only talent matters because something something Taylor Hall."

Except the whole something something mismatch in speed. Hall was Geno's guy.

They got just what they should have.

People can blame Letang, but malkin moved out with Hall. His responsibility.
 

Ryder71

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So you don't think that the drop-off in our offensive play would have a negative impact on our defense? You don't think the lack of our starting goalie has an impact on more goals against?
I don't think the primary issue is our goaltending. We're giving up ridiculously difficult scoring chances in spades. It's to a level where we'd need Patrick Roy in his prime to stem the tide. I'm not saying our goalies have been great, but our defense has been road kill of late. That Ranger game was where Letang got walked around how many times exactly? And yesterday, in OT what the hell was that? Eventually the dam will break.
 
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Ogrezilla

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I don't think the primary issue is our goaltending. We're giving up ridiculously difficult scoring chances in spades. It's to a level where we'd need Patrick Roy in his prime to stem the tide. I'm not saying our goalies have been great, but our defense has been road kill of late. That Ranger game was where Letang got walked around how many times exactly? And yesterday, in OT what the hell was that? Eventually the damn will break.
You just really aren't capable of reading a full post, are you? I mean, it was literally a forward who lost his guy in ot but you still ignore that whole part of my answer.

And do you think Cole was going to make letang play better?
 
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Ryder71

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Well, considering last time he was in the playoffs Letang finished third in Smythe votes playing the most minutes of our d-core , I’ll take the risk.

I’m not really sure where the legend of Ian Cole is coming from, he’s been a healthy scratch every year of his career.
Do you consider Letang ''reliable''?
 

Ryder71

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And do you think Cole was going to make letang play better?
No, but I think if Cole were here save OT, maybe Coles out there near the end of the game and bodies the man off the puck instead of being a glorified turnstile like Letang.
 

Ogrezilla

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No, but I think if Cole were here save OT, maybe Coles out there near the end of the game and bodies the man off the puck instead of being a glorified turnstile like Letang.
Holy shit this is just incredible at this point. At least you're cutting the ignored parts out of the quote though. That's an improvement.

Also, that point makes no sense. We lost in ot, not the end. Who made letang a turnstile last night?
 
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Gurglesons

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Do you consider Letang ''reliable''?

I don’t know in what world, Ian Cole was “reliable” aside from taking a hooking or slashing penalty once a game.

I also think defecting criticism of one player by citing the flaws of another player is silly. Cole was a solid #6, but acting like our team is in a downward spiral because of Cole is silly.

We are playing right around our season average in terms of wins and are on pace to finish like we did in our last 20 last year.

If you want to get into page after page battles over Ian Cole, feel free.
 
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Ryder71

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Holy **** this is just incredible at this point. At least you're cutting the ignored parts out of the quote though. That's an improvement.
The truth is your other points IMO are irrelevant. I see what you're saying but I think it's absurd. And you just ignored my post, so I guess we don't agree at all. Which of course we have said to each other repeatedly. Just go to bed I guess. lol
 

Ogrezilla

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The truth is your other points IMO are irrelevant. I see what you're saying but I think it's absurd. And you just ignored my post, so I guess we don't agree at all. Which of course we have said to each other repeatedly. Just go to bed I guess. lol
You think forwards maintaining more puck possession being linked to improving our goals against is absurd?
 
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Ryder71

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I don’t know in what world, Ian Cole was “reliable” aside from taking a hooking or slashing penalty once a game.

I also think defecting criticism of one player by citing the flaws of another player is silly. Cole was a solid #6, but acting like our team is in a downward spiral because of Cole is silly.

We are playing right around our season average in terms of wins and are on pace to finish like we did in our last 20 last year.

If you want to get into page after page battles over Ian Cole, feel free.
The hypocrisy here is so rich and so absurd it needs to be mentioned. Kris Letang is one of the most erratic, unreliable, brain dead defensemen this team has ever had the displeasure of employing! I mean my lord you're calling Cole unreliable? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound when you champion a guy like Letang? That's like a 500lb fat guy criticizing a 300lb fat guy. It's so preposterous. You don't have to like Cole, but he's far more reliable defensively then that two cent brained prima donna Letang. Holy cheese and crackers, like!
 

Ryder71

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You think forwards maintaining more puck possession being linked to improving our goals against is absurd?
I don't think that's the main issue. Could it contribute to some degree? Sure, but it's not an overriding variable IMO. I think the main issue is piss poor gap and zone coverage along with too many turnovers.
 
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