Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) X

[Devil X]

Hedberg? What about Bobby Carpenter?

 

[Classic Devil]

Hedberg? What about Bobby Carpenter?

Carpenter is a good pick. Brendan Shanahan in his second Devils stint?

The takeaway is ... rarely has a free agent signing paid off for New Jersey.

 

[Devil X]

He signed a ton of non-NHL FA that were great, Madden, Greene, and Rafalski to name a few.

 

[RSeen]

Free agent signings usually don't work out...Personally I'm not looking to sign a 29 or 30 year old to a 6-7 year term like Lee and Nyquist will get. You more than likely will have majority of the contract be poor value.

 

[jkrdevil]

Does Johnny Oduya count? He was kind of a NHL free agent. Mike Mottau is in the same “kind of a NHLer when we signed him” category. Maybe Johan Hedberg?

No. I’m talking about guys already in the NHL and who were already on the team.

I wouldn’t consider Hedberg a success as he single handedly torpedoed the 2013 season.

 

[Classic Devil]

No. I’m talking about guys already in the NHL and who were already on the team.

I wouldn’t consider Hedberg a success as he single handedly torpedoed the 2013 season.

True on Hedberg, but that was after we re-signed him.

John Vanbiesbrouck was a good backup for us?

 

[GeNeXt]

So I went back to look. Was Dainius Zubrus the only NHL free agent we signed under Lou that kind of worked out?

In the cap era, likely. I remember that deal being brutal at first too since his production wasn't great early on. It never was stellar, but average for a middle-six player. He obviously proved to be valuable as an interchangeable part, PKer and big body presence.

I think he was making $3-$3.5 range, which in 07-08 was a lot of cap space to be allocated to a player of his calibre. He never scored more than 17 during his tenure here, and there was one year he had a four goal game. He was certainly a valuable asset as the cap increased, but he was nearly a cap casualty on a couple occasions, specifically in 2010-11 when we were up against the cap and icing insufficient skaters to stay cap compliant.

 

[jkrdevil]

True on Hedberg, but that was after we re-signed him.

John Vanbiesbrouck was a good backup for us?

That was a trade.

 

[Classic Devil]

That was a trade.

Really? Huh.

Anyway, this exercise definitely demonstrates the point.

 

[jkrdevil]

Really? Huh.

Anyway, this exercise definitely demonstrates the point.

Iirc, they traded Terreri mid season to the Islanders for Beezer. He only actually played a few games for us because Marty played 70+ every year at that point.

 

[Classic Devil]

Iirc, they traded Terreri mid season to the Islanders for Beezer. He only actually played a few games for us because Marty played 70+ every year at that point.

I think I remember he played 4 games, he was mostly a joke.

 

[Devil X]

Free agent signings usually don't work out...Personally I'm not looking to sign a 29 or 30 year old to a 6-7 year term like Lee and Nyquist will get. You more than likely will have majority of the contract be poor value.

Each year is different but in 2017 and 2018 that wasnt the case. Its like GMs got smarter, no really. In 2017 and 2018 on 1 player signed a deal longer the 5 years.... JT 7 years. In 2017 Alzner(30) at 4.6 and Radulov (31) 6.2 each signed for 5 years. In 2018 JVR (29) 7 mil and Neal (31) 5.7 signed for 5 years. ALL the other deals were 4 or less years no matter the age.

2016 might be where everyone learned a lesson. In 2016 3 players signed 7 year deals Okposo (28) 6 mill, Lucic (28) 6 mill Ladd (30) 5.5. Then 2 6 year deals Eriksson (31) 6 mill and Nielsen (32) 5.25. Lastly 2 5 year deals from Backes (32) 6 mill and Demers (28) 4.5. Rest are 4 years or less.

We will see with more talent out there and most of them under 30 will it be 2016 or trend more toward the last 2 years.

 

[RangerDoggo]

My cousin likes Nichuskin as a cheap reclamation project. I saw a chart that shows he’s an offensive black hole, though. Even at a low price, I’m skeptical.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

Andy Greene was an unsigned free agent when we acquired him

Does that count?

 

[Bleedred]

We did sign Vanbiesbrouck the second year we had him, but he only played like 4 games (or maybe it was 5?) and didn't make his season debut until after the olympics in 2002. Apparently Lou talked him into coming back because they didn't have any faith in J-F Damphousse.

 

[Devs4L]

You're also talking about nearly 20 years of Lou's time here as GM when the UFA age was 32. How much would free agency currently be a factor for teams if it was still that way? How much more would it have been a factor for the Devils in the 90's and early 2000's if it was always 27?

That we can even debate Zubrus as a top 5 signing is partly because we signed him while he was still in his 20's. Would we have even signed him at 32? Maybe, maybe not. Of course this also means you have to be extra careful. Obviously the youth of UFA's is partly to blame for GM's being blinded into handing out terrible contracts now. Under the old system, a lot of the Clarkson's, Bickel's, and Beleskey's never got the big pay day because they were weeded out by the time they reached 32.

But the point is when you look at the Devils history of signings, a lot of those years came when the pool of UFA's looked very different. And it didn't include the Panarin, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Parise, and Suter types either. At least, not in terms of age.

 

[MadDevil]

I think Shero has used free agency wisely during his tenure here. Committing for 5-7 years to second tier free agents into their mid 30's is not a wise decision, especially when you're still building the core of your team for those next 5+ years. He's signed guys like Lovejoy and Boyle to affordable, short term contracts. Those types of players will always have value to teams looking for veterans at the deadline, and he's gotten assets back for them because of it. It's a hell of lot easier moving a player making 2-3 million a year (even less when you consider those two were pending UFAs) than it is somebody making 5+ million a year (and possibly for multiple years).

I don't think that just because Hall needs an extension and that we traded for Subban that Shero is suddenly going to change the way he approaches free agency, so I don't expect us to be in on any of those second tier free agents, unless they're willing to take shorter term deals.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Free agent signings usually don't work out...Personally I'm not looking to sign a 29 or 30 year old to a 6-7 year term like Lee and Nyquist will get. You more than likely will have majority of the contract be poor value.

Given the makeup of this team I'm inclined to side with the people who think Nyquist - as nice as he is for a middle 6 guy - is more of the same with lower upside than Zacha or Boqvist.

If we're looking to legitimately compete for the next 3-5/6 years Lee is exactly the kind of player you take a flyer on. The dude will be 29 in a few days and has put up 34, 40, and 28 goals in the last 3 seasons. The 28 goal season being last year when Trotz basically threw offense entirely by the wayside.

We are bursting at the seams with playmakers. A (very) fancy Maroon can't hurt unless we're talking more than $6.5-7mil per. If he bottoms out in 2023 there are always options - as we're currently seeing with the plethora of cap strapped teams unloading guys yet will likely be contenders next year as well.

Not everything can be developed in house.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think Shero has used free agency wisely during his tenure here. Committing for 5-7 years to second tier free agents into their mid 30's is not a wise decision, especially when you're still building the core of your team for those next 5+ years. He's signed guys like Lovejoy and Boyle to affordable, short term contracts. Those types of players will always have value to teams looking for veterans at the deadline, and he's gotten assets back for them because of it. It's a hell of lot easier moving a player making 2-3 million a year (even less when you consider those two were pending UFAs) than it is somebody making 5+ million a year (and possibly for multiple years).

I don't think that just because Hall needs an extension and that we traded for Subban that Shero is suddenly going to change the way he approaches free agency, so I don't expect us to be in on any of those second tier free agents, unless they're willing to take shorter term deals.

I think Ray is still trying to work the trade market. I don’t believe there is a realistic big ticket free agent that he is interested in.

The only guys I think he would have kicked the tires on don’t want to come here anyway.

 

[njdevils1982]

My cousin likes Nichuskin as a cheap reclamation project. I saw a chart that shows he’s an offensive black hole, though. Even at a low price, I’m skeptical.

there were a few here that were swooning to take him in the 13 draft….but then the "youre gonna wanna hear this" bettman thing happened at the 9th pick

 

[NJDevs26]

I think Ray is still trying to work the trade market. I don’t believe there is a realistic big ticket free agent that he is interested in.

The only guys I think he would have kicked the tires on don’t want to come here anyway.

You're probably right but he's going to have to trade actual prospects as opposed to picks now without a 2 next year. I figured a trade would be easier before the draft ended with all our excess picks, but I guess Ray went the other way and figured stock the farm first then use that for trade bait.

They wouldnt have signed him if they didnt give that 3rd year. He wasnt bad his first couple years and provided a ton of leadership for that young group. People look at numbers (stats, money) but in some cases there are other things at play. Im pretty sure if you go back, knowing what they do know they would still sign him.

I mean everyone rolled their eyes at that one but the thing is his contract wouldn't have been THAT big an issue if they didn't wind up signing JT as well. Plus who knows what kind of cap ninja stuff Lou would have pulled if he was still there.

The spam-bashing of Lou from one poster in two different threads is getting old though. I mean really, complaining about **** five and six years ago when Lou's long-gone, what's the point? Shero's had enough time to put his own stamp on things now. And as a Mets/Jets fan I'd be envious for even the mediocre Lou of 2005 on given the gongshow both organizations are.​

 

[Ripshot 43]

I would much rather spend in Free Agency than to start trading away our prospects. Any top 6 Signed winger is going to cost a top 5 prospect. Time to open the wallet in a smart yet needed way.

 

[NJDevs26]

I would much rather spend in Free Agency than to start trading away our prospects. Any top 6 Signed winger is going to cost a top 5 prospect. Time to open the wallet in a smart yet needed way.

The rub being trading prevents you from getting involved in the stupid contracts of free agency.

They could still use a top six wing one way or another. After Palms and Hall you have Bratt, then Zacha if you move him over from center or Boqvist as your leading top six wing candidates. If you're trying to win in the near future that ain't cutting it for wing depth.

 

[Devil X]

You don’t want to slow progress a I have high hopes for a buy like Bovqvist but he needs to earn his way in. I’d rather be in a spot where he pushes someone down then given a role he isn’t ready for and can’t be counted on for.

As for progress, like I said. One comment made me think Shero is going to be a bit more of a player in FA this season. When he traded for a Subban in one of his interviews he said in his discussions with ownership that it was “time” implying to me at least it was time to spend money. You sign a winger because you need to in my eyes. You need to put the effort in for Hall, you need something in place in case Hall walks so it won’t hurt as bad as it might normally. You only have 3 years of Subban. You have some cheap contracts out there still.

But it’s FA and the player has to want to sign with your team. Shero can talk till he is blue on the face but if none of these guys want to come here it won’t matter to much. But I’d say that a top 5 of Hall Nico Hughes Palmieri and Bratt isn’t to bad of a group to join at the moment and hopefully for a long time.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I think Ray is still trying to work the trade market. I don’t believe there is a realistic big ticket free agent that he is interested in.

The only guys I think he would have kicked the tires on don’t want to come here anyway.

For those that are worried about a 7 year contract, I agree that Shero isn’t ready to commit long term to anyone other than Hall at this time. He’ll may offer five, no more. He probably rather make a trade. We’ll see.