Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) VI

[Devils731]

lol. Back to the goaltending was the sole culprit. sigh.

If we don't sign a dman and Smith isn't ready, and we play the same stupid system - then it'll be goaltending again this year, I guess.

Why did the goaltending improve so much in the second half if it was all system and players and not on the goalies?

 

[Bleedred]

I know all about the goaltending. And the injuries. I'm just not giving that more than a 10-12 point impact. As bad as the injuries/goalies were last year, the year before we rode an insane season by Hall and a two-month off the charts stretch by a now unemployed goalie. IMO this team is a mid-80s point team talent-wise right now. We can all have our opinion but it's water under the bridge anyway.

Consider this. Moves were made at the deadline that were meant to weaken this team by design. To ensure a nuclear finish and not some 83 point one to miss the playoffs by some 10-12 point margin. Not to mention that our best player didn't play a single game after Christmas. He missed over half the season. Then we sent Johansson out of town and Boyle (who might have actually been helping our power play to an extent) was shipped out and these guys were replaced with players like Kevin Rooney, Blake Pietila, Eric Tangradi. And a very green Michael McLeod and Joey Anderson. You had Steve Santini playing many nights later on, which means more shots for the opponent, even if the goaltending is better. Jesper Bratt was injured for two different stretches that bookended the season. You gotta figure that shaved off another half a dozen points or more.

 

[Bleedred]

lol. Back to the goaltending was the sole culprit. sigh.

If we don't sign a dman and Smith isn't ready, and we play the same stupid system - then it'll be goaltending again this year, I guess.

Sure it wasn't.

Because there's only so many goalies in the league that are better than that POS Kinkaid and capable of putting up better than an .891% on this team.

 

[217 Forever]

Consider this. Moves were made at the deadline that were meant to weaken this team by design. To ensure a nuclear finish and not some 83 point one to miss the playoffs by some 10-12 point margin. Not to mention that our best player didn't play a single game after Christmas. He missed over half the season. Then we sent Johansson out of town and Boyle (who might have actually been helping our power play to an extent) was shipped out and these guys were replaced with players like Kevin Rooney, Blake Pietila, Eric Tangradi. You had Steve Santini playing many nights later on, which means more shots for the opponent, even if the goaltending is better. Jesper Bratt was injured for two different stretches that bookended the season. You gotta figure that shaved off another half a dozen points or more.

I get how that is the "logical" way to look at things. However, there are lots of examples of teams that are way out of the playoff race all of the sudden turning things on with young hungry guys and when the pressure is off. Weren't Agostino's numbers pretty much the same as MOJO's on a ppg basis, for example? Ottawa was much more competitive after Boucher was fired even though it was the same players. Hockey is funny that way. To take our 97 point season and basically use that as an established baseline for our team is a big leap of faith IMO.

 

[Triumph]

I get how that is the "logical" way to look at things. However, there are lots of examples of teams that are way out of the playoff race all of the sudden turning things on with young hungry guys and when the pressure is off. Weren't Agostino's numbers pretty much the same as MOJO's on a ppg basis, for example? Ottawa was much more competitive after Boucher was fired even though it was the same players. Hockey is funny that way. To take our 97 point season and basically use that as an established baseline for our team is a big leap of faith IMO.

I doubt anyone but the most naive, rah-rah Devils fan is taking the 97 point season as the established baseline. That is what happens when just about everything goes right for a team of that talent level. Last season is what happens when just about everything goes wrong. The truth is that the Devils are probably around an 80-85 point team right now without adding Hughes or Smith or whatever else. So yes, there's work to be done, but things are beginning to fall into place.

 

[Bleedred]

And like SV% that has nothing to do with quality of shots. If you can't clear the crease, allow breakaways, 2-on-1s, have terrible giveaways, get trapped in your zone, and no one understands the defensive system...... it only takes one shot to score. But I'm not getting roped into this discussion again.

And when shots like these are going in, it doesn't matter what you're defensive system is. And it's also a pretty good indicator of why the save percentage was so putrid.





Enjoy these. It took me a half hour to find these and while I'm supposed to be working.

And I'm sure if I didn't bring it up first, the rebuttal would have been ''These guys are snipers bro. Kucherov and Panarin?''.

 

[Bleedred]

And it only lets us post 3 videos per post, so here's another 3 softies.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And like SV% that has nothing to do with quality of shots. If you can't clear the crease, allow breakaways, 2-on-1s, have terrible giveaways, get trapped in your zone, and no one understands the defensive system...... it only takes one shot to score. But I'm not getting roped into this discussion again.

from what I remember, the Devils were also middle of the pack in high danger chances against. I could be wrong though.

edit- actually they were 4th best in HDCA/60

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[217 Forever]

I doubt anyone but the most naive, rah-rah Devils fan is taking the 97 point season as the established baseline. That is what happens when just about everything goes right for a team of that talent level. Last season is what happens when just about everything goes wrong. The truth is that the Devils are probably around an 80-85 point team right now without adding Hughes or Smith or whatever else. So yes, there's work to be done, but things are beginning to fall into place.

On the previous page I called us a mid-80s point team...

 

[Better Call Sal]

Jesus, are you guys gluttons for punishment or something with those videos?

 

[None Shall Pass]

It is weird being a fan of the only team in the NHL whose goalies let in soft goals sometimes.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm gonna get into my stoppable goal analysis in this thread and just for fun, I'm gonna see what teams combined for more goals I counted stoppable than the Devils of this year. It won't be incredibly accurate, due to a few goalies (like Cam Talbot, Anders Nilsson, Calvin Pickard, etc) playing for multiple teams this year, so I'm just gonna go over the teams that had the same goalies play for them all year long. I never separated the counts for goalies that played for multiple teams this year, just added to their original count. I know I said I was only going to do teams that had the same goalies play there the entire year, but I can say that Edmonton probably had more. I have Koskinen at 53 (tied for the league lead with good ole Martin Jones) and Talbot with 34. Talbot only allowed 13 goals in total with the Flyers and 95 with Edmonton. And I'm pretty sure Talbot had already hit 30 before the trade, so let's just say 83 for Edmonton. Probably in the upper 80's, due to a few on Stolarz after the trade. I'm also gonna assume I counted more on Ottawa than us, as they were the worst team in the league and Craig Anderson didn't perform particularly well on my count.

I had our team at 78. 41 for Kinkaid, 22 for Schneider, 15 for Blackwood. Blackwood was the only goalie on the team who was better than league average in both save percentage and allowed a lower percentage of goals I counted stoppable than my league average.

Tampa Bay: 57
Boston: 52
Toronto: 61 (maybe a few more with Hutchinson, who played for multiple teams)
Montreal: 61
Florida: 71 (maybe a few more with Hutchinson)
Buffalo: 73
Detroit: 70
Ottawa: They had multiple goalies that spent time on other teams this year. They probably had more than us though.
Washington: 70
NYI: 44
Pittsburgh: 58
Carolina: 56
Columbus: 58
Philadelphia: Too many goalies played there and a couple played for other teams.
NYR: 69
NJD: 78
Nashville: 54
Winnipeg: 68
St. Louis: Johnson played for multiple teams, but I would bet it's still gonna be considerably lower than ours. Even with Jake Allen's 35.
Dallas: 47
Colorado: 63
Chicago: 81! WOO! WE GOT ANOTHER WORSE THAN US! Chicago was also an even worse team though, don't even think their goalies were worse.
Minnesota: 50
Calgary: 75 (CLOSE!)
San Jose: 69
Vegas: 58
Arizona: I get 51 when not adding Pickard, who played for multiple teams and only allowed 17 goals with Arizona. So they're also much fewer.
Vancouver: I get 58 when not counting Nilsson, who played for multiple teams. Still don't think he pushes them past us.
Anaheim: Only get 51 with Gibson, Miller and Boyle. Johnson played for 2 teams this year, but only allowed 20 goals with Anaheim.
Edmonton: They may be your league leader. About 85 or more, but Talbot and Stolarz both played with the Flyers last year.
Los Angeles: 64

TL/DR: Devils goaltenders should have made more f***ing saves last year. Only teams I counted higher for stoppable goals were Edmonton, Chicago and maybe Ottawa and possibly Philly.

 

[Bleedred]

It is weird being a fan of the only team in the NHL whose goalies let in soft goals sometimes.

It is weird being a fan of an NHL team with the third or fourth most allowed soft goals last year?

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

It is weird being a fan of an NHL team with the third or fourth most allowed soft goals last year?

Did you track 31 teams?

 

[None Shall Pass]

One goalie was badly injured for half the year, and the other sucked and got traded. Of course we gave up a lot of goals during that span.

Bleed, how do the numbers look split between pre-Cory getting healthy and post-Cory getting healthy/Blackwood sticking around?

 

[Bleedred]

Did you track 31 teams?

Yes. Just a few posts up in post #812. Like I said, Philly had about 8 or 9 goalies play for them and some played for multiple teams. Ottawa went through a lot as well. And that made it harder to get a definite count on those teams, as I never started the count over for when a goalie would switch teams.

I definitely counted more on Chicago and Edmonton. Ottawa and Philly are maybe's.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

We acquired Taylor Hall, Kyle Palmieri, Marcus Johansson, Sami Vatanen & Mirco Mueller and the best piece we gave up was Adam Larsson and Adam Henrique. Think about that.

if Shero is great at one thing, its getting max value out of trades.

I agree on that for the most part. He fleeced Edmonton and made a great hockey trade to get Vats. It took giving up Henrique and few small pieces. The trade for Mueller was a little unnecessary IMO (and others) the time of the deal. We're talking bringing in a player on a tier higher than Vatanen or Palmieri but depending on who get we might have to move more quality than quantity. I don't think 2nds and 3rds will be what entices teams at a starting point.

 

[Bleedred]

One goalie was badly injured for half the year, and the other sucked and got traded. Of course we gave up a lot of goals during that span.

Bleed, how do the numbers look split between pre-Cory getting healthy and post-Cory getting healthy/Blackwood sticking around?

Pre-Cory's final return, I distinctly remember having him down for 13 goals stoppable. After his final return, I counted just 9 in about 15 or 16 more games. So he did improve in the count after his return.

Blackwood had the lowest percentage of any goalie on our team last year, as well as being the only goalie that had a lower percentage than my league average of goals I counted stoppable. He wasn't great or one of the best in the league, but he was solid. And I'm pretty sure he had a lower percentage of goals I counted stoppable than Carter Hart did.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Rumor from NJ Ledger saying Hall for Laine has been discussed

 

[Devils731]

Rumor from NJ Ledger saying Hall for Laine has been discussed

Link?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Link?

There were several E5 sort of writers on this 2 or 3 days ago. Highly likely to be completely bogus.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Ray Shero: "Well Taylor, we're excited to be adding some new young talent to this team. Ty Smith, Jack Hughes, maybe even Patrick Laine."
Taylor Hall: "Well then, sign me now."
Ray Shero:

 

[vtdevils2k]

Rumor from NJ Ledger saying Hall for Laine has been discussed

From someone that doesn’t exist apparently i read. Saw that on Facebook this morning.

 

[MartyOwns]

“according to sources”...so you know it’s true.

NHL Trade Rumor: Jets deal Patrik Laine to the Devils for Taylor

edit- don’t give them clicks:

According to sources, the New Jersey Devils and Winnipeg Jets have held preliminary discussions around a couple of superstars. The talks included swapping Taylor Hall for Patrik Laine.

Laine who is currently an RFA looking for a new deal, has been battling the Jets as the team isn't quite sold on what type of player he will become so they are hesitant to offer an 8 year deal over $9 million AAV, which has caused some to believe he wants out of Winnipeg.

Taylor Hall and his agent have made it known they are not ready to re-up in New Jersey just yet, as Hall will be a UFA next off season and wants to cash in once again. Hall would prefer to wait out the year and see where the direction of the team is headed. Some have reported Hall wants out, but it appears he just doesn't want to sign an extension just yet.

The Devils are uncomfortable with this situation as they don't want their superstar to walk for free, so a move with the Jets to pair Jack Hughes with Patrik Laine for the next 8 years, would make Devils GM, Ray Shero fly over the moon.

 

[Devils731]

So basically as good as the HF trade board. Thanks.