Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) VI

[njdevils1982]

Continue

…keepings palms

 

[Tretyak 20]

@Tretyak 20 from the last team thread, you said you wouldn't trade Hall for the 4th, I'm interested in why?

@Emperoreddy Although I think Chicago takes Byram, that would be an absolute dream scenario to walk out of this draft with Hughes AND Byram is the fourth was actually ours as well. Byram is going to be an absolute stud and I 100% wanted him when I was thinking we'd get the third pick. I actually was ALMOST disappointed we weren't going to take him. He's going to be EXACTLY what this teams been missing since Niedermayer left.

Quite frankly I think a prime player one season removed from a Hart trophy is worth more than that.

Beyond that there's the problem that Hall wouldn't want to go from one bottom feeder to another. If he is totally unwilling to re-sign here, it's because he wants a contender. Colorado isn't going to trade a 4th overall pick for an unsigned player - there would have to be a verbal deal in place, which would raise Hall's value.

Hall for 4OA is a pipe dream, and a bad one at that. He will either A) re-sign here, B) get traded to a contender or C) test the market.

 

[LeedsMonster]

Colin Wilson 2-3 yrs to center or play LW on the 4th line. Solid production, decent defensive player I believe, and a connection with Shero. Trade Jesper Bratt+ to Pittsburg for Brandon Doumolin. Sign Eberle 3 yrs.
Thoughts?

Hall- Hischier- Palmieri
Zacha- Hughes- Eberle
Coleman- Zajac- Anderson/McLeod
Wood- Wilson- Anderson/ McLeod

Doumolin- Severson
Smith- Vatanen
Greene- Butcher

 

[Billdo]

Quite frankly I think a prime player one season removed from a Hart trophy is worth more than that.

Beyond that there's the problem that Hall wouldn't want to go from one bottom feeder to another. If he is totally unwilling to re-sign here, it's because he wants a contender. Colorado isn't going to trade a 4th overall pick for an unsigned player - there would have to be a verbal deal in place, which would raise Hall's value.

Hall for 4OA is a pipe dream, and a bad one at that. He will either A) re-sign here, B) get traded to a contender or C) test the market.

I'm not even saying it's a dream, just a hypothetical. Obviously the deal would be contingent on his signing. I don't think Colorado is a basement dweller either.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I'm not even saying it's a dream, just a hypothetical. Obviously the deal would be contingent on his signing. I don't think Colorado is a basement dweller either.

They aren't exactly a contender, and a signed Hall is definitely worth more than just the 4th OA.

 

[OmNomNom]

Colin Wilson 2-3 yrs to center or play LW on the 4th line. Solid production, decent defensive player I believe, and a connection with Shero. Trade Jesper Bratt+ to Pittsburg for Brandon Doumolin. Sign Eberle 3 yrs.
Thoughts?

Hall- Hischier- Palmieri
Zacha- Hughes- Eberle
Coleman- Zajac- Anderson/McLeod
Wood- Wilson- Anderson/ McLeod

Doumolin- Severson
Smith- Vatanen
Greene- Butcher

That's crazy overpayment. Bratt is cap controlled, why would we add for 27 yr old dumoulin? Granted he's signed for a few more years but bratt has a ton of flashy potential

 

[NjDevsRR]

People undervalue Vatanen so much on here. He was an absolute monster in the second half of 2017-18. Last season was derailed due to many injuries. Lets see what he can do next season, he would be a great asset if he returns to that level of play he gave us. Behind Hall and Kinkaid he was the 3rd most important Devil in that playoff run.

 

[BurntToast]

People undervalue Vatanen so much on here. He was an absolute monster in the second half of 2017-18. Last season was derailed due to many injuries. Lets see what he can do next season, he would be a great asset if he returns to that level of play he gave us. Behind Hall and Kinkaid he was the 3rd most important Devil in that playoff run.

I think he is overvalued along with Zacha. Are you saying he was monster in 17-18 bc of his stats? Or was it bc the Devils made the playoffs? He has lower points than most of the other D and isn’t the most physical specimen. Additionally , his hockey IQ is questionable and now you can add injury prone. I think the left side should be better. As-Is:

Green-Sev
Smith-Vats (injury issues)
Butcher- Carrick (?)
Mueller-?
Davies-?

By the end of the year Smith could knock Green down the lineup.

 

[kiwidevil]

What do the fancy stats say about Trouba?

 

[StevenToddIves]

@Zajacs Bowl Cut

You are way too high on Jonas Brodin. Severson and Vatanen are much better players. Possibly Ty Smith as well this season, and maybe even Will Butcher.

Brodin is a #3 at BEST. More likely a #4.

I'd say Brodin is an average bottom-pairing defenseman in the NHL. There's no way he's a #3. He's average defensively, about a 25-point guy, and he's physically soft despite good size. He's like a slight upgrade on Mirco Mueller.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Bottom line. Would Trouba be our best dman?
He may seem overrated, but if he upgrades our D, then he's worth it assuming the price won't kill us.
And with Vats potentially gone in a year, he fills a big void.

Trouba is a dman that Smith can grow with over the years as well.

Yes, Trouba would be the best D on the Devils. His 50-point year was just scratching the surface offensively -- he was only the #1 RD on Winnipeg for the half-season that Byfuglien was hurt, and the only current Devils D capable of a 50-point year are Butcher and Severson. In addition, Trouba would be the most physical Devils D by a country mile, the second best shot-blocker behind Greene, and the best defensive defenseman on the team.

 

[Devil made me do it]

How about trading Zacha + a 2nd rounder for Trouba?
That's not a bad return for the Jets and we get the top pairing d-man we've been looking for..

 

[IT0]

so, no jocktan for us ?

 

[Ripshot 43]

How about trading Zacha + a 2nd rounder for Trouba?
That's not a bad return for the Jets and we get the top pairing d-man we've been looking for..

Personally I would rather a deal where we trade from what’s becoming a logjam of bottom 4 defenders. Vats can be a tweeter for 1st and 2nd pair if paired with the proper 1LD so he may seem valuable to another team in that sense (for this trade scenario). I’d rather not give up Zacha as I think he takes another step forward this next season and Severson is signed to a good deal.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

That's crazy overpayment. Bratt is cap controlled, why would we add for 27 yr old dumoulin? Granted he's signed for a few more years but bratt has a ton of flashy potential

I'd definately trade Bratt+ for Dumoulin, unless that + is Smith or Boqvist. Dumoulin is the best defensive dman in the Penguins. He plays 1st pairing minutes with good results.

Though I doubt the Pens would do this trade.

 

[Billdo]

so, no jocktan for us ?

Evidently he's back in the draft... if we drafted him again would we have his rights just as long?

 

[Nubmer6]

I'd say Brodin is an average bottom-pairing defenseman in the NHL. There's no way he's a #3. He's average defensively, about a 25-point guy, and he's physically soft despite good size. He's like a slight upgrade on Mirco Mueller.

Just curious if you had any thoughts on TJ Brodie.

 

[devilsblood]

What do the fancy stats say about Trouba?

Some individual 5v5 stats.

Toi per game 17:29

Per 60
Pts. .96(.13 goals, .33 1st assist) (2nd on team)
Shots. 5.23
Shooting % 2.4
Penalties. .79
Giveaways. 2.93(led team)
Takeaways. 1.59
Hits. 3.89. (4th on team).
Shots blocked. 5.94. (led team)
Minor penalties. .89

Compared to Sevs.

Toi 17:13 per game.

Pts 1.06 (.34 goals-.5 1st assist)
Shots 3.82
Shooting % 8.89.
Giveaways. 2.0
Takeaways. .81
Hits 3.0
Shots blocked 2.85
Minors. .59.



So 5v5 Sev's did have the better offensive season. Buoyed by a high shooting percentage? Yes, but it's becoming pretty clear that his shot is a weapon. 1st assist#'s also a little better for Sev's, while Trouba's #'s were pretty heavy with secondary assists.

We kill Sev's for the giveaways, Trouba is worse by a decent amount.


Trouba is not a big hitter, moreso then Sev's, but his hits per 60 would be 4th on the Devils.
Trouba did go to the box more then Sev's.

He is a big time shot blocker, twice as many per 60, only Greene on the Devils was better.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I'd say Brodin is an average bottom-pairing defenseman in the NHL. There's no way he's a #3. He's average defensively, about a 25-point guy, and he's physically soft despite good size. He's like a slight upgrade on Mirco Mueller.

You think he’s an “average” 5/6D?

Sorry, that’s wrong.

He definitely isn’t anything special offensively, but he is a defensive rock that Wild fans praise to no end. He’s miles ahead of Mirco Mueller. That’s a ridiculous comparison.

 

[devilsblood]

Special teams comparison.

On the PP is where we see Trouba seperate himself offensively.

Sev's actually played more per 60, 2:29 vs 2:00, 3.54 pts/60 for Sev's. 6.41 for Trouba. Trouba with a better shooting % here. Overall 18 pp pts for Trouba compared to 12 for Sev's. Now do consider that Winnipeg had 63 pp goals this season, which was 5th in the league. Devils had 45, good for 18th in the league.

On the PK Trouba carried a much heavier workload playing 2:30 per game compared to Sev's, 1:30. Trouba still much heavier with the giveaways(about 3 to 2). Sev's actually a little better with the takeaways(both just under 1). Trouba with a solid edge on hits (a little better then 3 to 4) and the 2 are pretty close in shots blocked at 5.8 for Trouba, 5.4 for Sev's.

The on ice PK #'s are all in Sev's favor, from corsi against per 60, to shots against per 60, and goals against per 60 as well. Now like with the PP consider that NJ was an excellent PK team overall(3rd in the league in terms of goals against per 60), while Winnipeg was not so good(21st in the league. Also consider that Lovejoy had better #'s then Sev's did, where as Trouba was right there with the team leaders in all 3 stats(much better then Tyler Myers who also played heavy PK minutes). Some splits would be nice in regards to Sev's on the PK as we now his workload jumped tremendously late in the season with Lovejoy traded and Vat's hurt.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Colin Wilson 2-3 yrs to center or play LW on the 4th line. Solid production, decent defensive player I believe, and a connection with Shero. Trade Jesper Bratt+ to Pittsburg for Brandon Doumolin. Sign Eberle 3 yrs.
Thoughts?

Hall- Hischier- Palmieri
Zacha- Hughes- Eberle
Coleman- Zajac- Anderson/McLeod
Wood- Wilson- Anderson/ McLeod

Doumolin- Severson
Smith- Vatanen
Greene- Butcher

We get hosed in that PIT trade.

Rutherford is on record as a big Dumo guy, so any deal for him would probably require an overpayment like Bratt. Doesn’t mean we have to pay it, though. I definitely wouldn’t.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'd say Brodin is an average bottom-pairing defenseman in the NHL. There's no way he's a #3. He's average defensively, about a 25-point guy, and he's physically soft despite good size. He's like a slight upgrade on Mirco Mueller.

sorry, this is just insane to me.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I'd say Brodin is an average bottom-pairing defenseman in the NHL. There's no way he's a #3. He's average defensively, about a 25-point guy, and he's physically soft despite good size. He's like a slight upgrade on Mirco Mueller.

I'd say this is selling him a little short, but I agree he would be a horrible player to target via trade. Just not that good of a player and wouldn't move the needle for the Devils at all. Basically just more of what we already have in the pipeline.

Yes, Trouba would be the best D on the Devils. His 50-point year was just scratching the surface offensively -- he was only the #1 RD on Winnipeg for the half-season that Byfuglien was hurt, and the only current Devils D capable of a 50-point year are Butcher and Severson. In addition, Trouba would be the most physical Devils D by a country mile, the second best shot-blocker behind Greene, and the best defensive defenseman on the team.

I agree the Devils should be looking at every avenue to try to acquire Jacob Trouba. Ideally, I would want to acquire him with a protected 2020 1st rounder as the main piece of the trade. But I think it would probably have to take Vatanen for the Devils to win the bidding war. Unless they value draft picks highly.

This would be my first offer to Winnipeg for Trouba: 2020 1st round pick (lottery protected) + Mike McLeod + 2019 34th overall + Mueller/Santini/Carrick

 

[Emperoreddy]

I am not sure the D we really need is available at a price we can stomach.

Muzzin was really the guy if we could.

I don’t feel confident it gets addressed this offseason outside a depth or boom/bust signing. They may just let Davies and Smith try and earn spots.

In this situation I do believe we will see a move to upgrade at wing since we will need to score our way out of trouble. Decent free agent options and there is always a high quality wing available via trade.

 

[devilsblood]

Brodin did lead the Wild in limiting offense in every per 60 category. Corsi, shots, goals against. Brodin topped every list. He also started in the defensive zone more then any other Wild player.

Now in general I think Suter handled the toughest assignments, but Suter, as he has offensive ability, was given more favorable assignments as well. It looks like Brodin was used pretty much as a defensive defensemen, and I think his #'s say he performed well.

On the PK, although Brodin played over 2:07 per game, not much below Suter's 2:18 per game, Suter had a much heavier defensive zone starts per 60. So While Brodin's #'s are much better, like tops in the league good, it looks to me like Suter was the clear #1 pair PK d-man, while Suter was the #2. Which to me sounds dumb as that would be a good chance to give Suter a bit of a break, but given Suter wear's the C, and is a known workhorse, I think it's almost his call to make.