Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - part XII

[beekay414]

Since Nas took over, we're at 2.79 GF/G which has us tied for 21st with Ottawa (0.02 GF/G behind Buffalo for 20th). Under Hynes, we were at 2.52 GF/G this year (29th) so, for me, it's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

Palms is a solid goal scorer, yeah, but he flat out doesn't fit the timeline and his value to us comes from the ROI you get by dealing him with term. I'm not signing a 31 year old, sub 30 goal scorer to a 5+ year deal for $7+ Million AAV.

 

[MadDevil]

At some point you do need to keep good players around though, even if they may not be an ideal fit for your timeline. Relying on free agency to bring in quality veterans to play with your kids is not a great plan.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

If Bruins fans don’t feel comfortable doing a 1st and one of their best prospects for Palms, then they are better off bugging Ranger fans to lower Kreider’s pride.

we don’t have to trade Palms so there is no reason to accept less.

Totally agree. He is a better player than Coleman and the package has to be more. Otherwise happy to keep him and re-sign him.

And if he doesn't re-sign then we also have next season to trade him. This is a deal whereby we can take our time with.

 

[NJDevs26]

People also act like you can never trade Palmieri again down the road after re-signing him with all this hand-wringing about 'not fitting the timeline'. Or that only players who are absolutely gonna be in their prime (or before it) fit the timeline of when this team can be competitive again.

So a 21-22 year old Nolan Foote who isn't a sure thing and will probably have growing pains fits the timeline of being competitive in 2-3 years? He'll have to be a top six winger by then if we're razing the barn of everyone who isn't a center or goalie. Would it be so bad to have a 32-year old Palmieri around as the team gets competitive again? Or trade him then if things are taking longer than expected again and/or we do wind up finding a bunch of top six guys.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

A 1st and a teams best prospect is not good enough for Palmieri

The only return acceptable is if a young roster player is coming back, along with a top prospect or 1st and whatever else is necessary if cap dumps and/or retention is involved

Whether its realistic or not for a contending team to move a roster player doesnt matter. thats the price when he is near perfect for this team besides not being a little younger, and we have no need to trade him.

Depends on the prospect. Foote is a guy who likely will make the team next year at some point since he can go to Bingo. Timmins would make the team too.

Then of course there are prospects with enormous upside like Byram that you trade for Palmieri one for one even if he had to go back to junior for another year.

Basically I want as close to a sure thing as possible.

 

[Team Concept]

Really have to laugh at the ESPN article that came out an hour ago that says Palmieri should be traded to Edmonton and Kreider to Colorado. Rangers get back a lot more than what we get yet Palmieri has an extra year of contract.

 

[Blender]

Really have to laugh at the ESPN article that came out an hour ago that says Palmieri should be traded to Edmonton and Kreider to Colorado. Rangers get back a lot more than what we get yet Palmieri has an extra year of contract.

That return for Palms is disgusting. Worse than some of the garbage that gets posted on the trade board.

Oilers get: F Kyle Palmieri (half of his salary retained by Devils)
Devils get: F Jesse Puljujarvi's rights, Oilers' first-round pick in 2020 (lottery-protected), F Sam Gagner's expiring contract

Seven trades we'd like to see before the NHL trade deadline

 

[Team Concept]

That return for Palms is disgusting. Worse than some of the garbage that gets posted on the trade board.



Seven trades we'd like to see before the NHL trade deadline

Thanks for posting the links. I am on my cell.

 

[217 Forever]

People also act like you can never trade Palmieri again down the road after re-signing him with all this hand-wringing about 'not fitting the timeline'. Or that only players who are absolutely gonna be in their prime (or before it) fit the timeline of when this team can be competitive again.

So a 21-22 year old Nolan Foote who isn't a sure thing and will probably have growing pains fits the timeline of being competitive in 2-3 years? He'll have to be a top six winger by then if we're razing the barn of everyone who isn't a center or goalie. Would it be so bad to have a 32-year old Palmieri around as the team gets competitive again? Or trade him then if things are taking longer than expected again and/or we do wind up finding a bunch of top six guys.

The Blues had at least 6 players I believe last year over the age of 29. If they started worrying about "timelines" early last season who knows how many of those players would have been gone before they even had the chance to win a Cup.

There is this holy grail attitude among so many fans that there has to be some perfect mix of all 22-27 year olds which is the only way for a team to be championship worthy just drives me berserk. It's not an exact science. Team dynamics are always changing. Players can develop at vastly different intervals. There are always unforseen injuries. A goalie that you count on one minute falls off a cliff the next. Simpy put, Palmieri in my view is an integral part of our team and should remain such if possible. Along these same lines I hope the Rangers trade Kreider. He's playing the best hockey of his life.

 

[Smitty426]

Those who have followed me on the Devils HF Boards the past few years know how high I was on Jett Woo in his draft year of 2018. He's just a beast with his physicality and defensive acumen, he skates well, and although he's not going to put up video game numbers he is certainly capable of a role on a NHL 2PP and 35-45 point seasons.

So yes, everyone here needs to embrace @Smitty426 and his trade idea -- it's a good one, and the salary retained by NJ + taking on the bad Baertschi contract would make it worthwhile for Vancouver even though they would be getting fleeced talent-wise.

Steve, continuing on this Wayne to Van move-
On capfriendly.com I came across this:
simmonds - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
One of the suggestions made for Vats/Sim at half off was
Baerschti / Woo / Podkolzin
Why would we not do that?
Yes we'd need a dance partner in Van.
Thoughts on any of these posted?

 

[FooteBahl]

Really have to laugh at the ESPN article that came out an hour ago that says Palmieri should be traded to Edmonton and Kreider to Colorado. Rangers get back a lot more than what we get yet Palmieri has an extra year of contract.

As soon as I see ESPN and hockey in the same sentence, I normally just close the link.

 

[GameSeven]

That return for Palms is disgusting. Worse than some of the garbage that gets posted on the trade board.



Seven trades we'd like to see before the NHL trade deadline

They know it's Kyle Palmieri and not Nick, right?

 

[aboriginal]

Dany can we win?

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

The Blues had at least 6 players I believe last year over the age of 29. If they started worrying about "timelines" early last season who knows how many of those players would have been gone before they even had the chance to win a Cup.

There is this holy grail attitude among so many fans that there has to be some perfect mix of all 22-27 year olds which is the only way for a team to be championship worthy just drives me berserk. It's not an exact science. Team dynamics are always changing. Players can develop at vastly different intervals. There are always unforseen injuries. A goalie that you count on one minute falls off a cliff the next. Simpy put, Palmieri in my view is an integral part of our team and should remain such if possible. Along these same lines I hope the Rangers trade Kreider. He's playing the best hockey of his life.

You are missing the point. St. Louis had some previous playoff success and felt the players in AP's age group were the players to build around. The Devils veteran core has not shown that type of success. Most Cup winners have older players because they add to their winning core by trading futures for players. For example, Pitts barely drafts in the 1st round recently because they are building around their two generational centers that are in their 30's. That is the right thing for them to do because they are trying to maximize their time while they have their superstars. In a few year Pitts will be terrible because of what they are doing now.

Having said that, I would only trade Palms if the Devils got a deal where a roster player or a player very close to coming up was involved and the Devils received an excellent offer. Since I would want a roster player that would mean if I was GM it is unlikely he would be traded at the deadline since contenders are unlikely to trade roster players at this time.

 

[Better Call Sal]

TG, still love you, ya salty bastard.

 

[217 Forever]

You are missing the point. St. Louis had some previous playoff success and felt the players in AP's age group were the players to build around. The Devils veteran core has not shown that type of success. Most Cup winners have older players because they add to their winning core by trading futures for players. For example, Pitts barely drafts in the 1st round recently because they are building around their two generational centers that are in their 30's. That is the right thing for them to do because they are trying to maximize their time while they have their superstars. In a few year Pitts will be terrible because of what they are doing now.

Having said that, I would only trade Palms if the Devils got a deal where a roster player or a player very close to coming up was involved and the Devils received an excellent offer. Since I would want a roster player that would mean if I was GM it is unlikely he would be traded at the deadline since contenders are unlikely to trade roster players at this time.

The players I was referring to on the Blues (Bouwmeester, Bozak, Gunnarson, Maroon, Perron, Pietrangelo, Steen) were either long time Blues or free agent signings. I guess my point was that some teams win championships with a young group that kind of all matures at the same time like the Blackhawks, while others can kind of come out of nowhere like a veteran Blues team that was struggling horribly and did nothing more than change coaches and find a miracle goalie. Personally I prefer to just keep putting together the best group possible and hoping it clicks rather than constantly searching for the holy grail, but to each their own.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

The players I was referring to on the Blues (Bouwmeester, Bozak, Gunnarson, Maroon, Perron, Pietrangelo, Steen) were either long time Blues or free agent signings. I guess my point was that some teams win championships with a young group that kind of all matures at the same time like the Blackhawks, while others can kind of come out of nowhere like a veteran Blues team that was struggling horribly and did nothing more than change coaches and find a miracle goalie. Personally I prefer to just keep putting together the best group possible and hoping it clicks rather than constantly searching for the holy grail, but to each their own.

come out of nowhere? they made the playoffs in 6 of 7 seasons before last year? and the only season they didnt make it they had 94 points? Not really a good comparison to where we are.

 

[Zippy316]

The Blues had at least 6 players I believe last year over the age of 29. If they started worrying about "timelines" early last season who knows how many of those players would have been gone before they even had the chance to win a Cup.

There is this holy grail attitude among so many fans that there has to be some perfect mix of all 22-27 year olds which is the only way for a team to be championship worthy just drives me berserk. It's not an exact science. Team dynamics are always changing. Players can develop at vastly different intervals. There are always unforseen injuries. A goalie that you count on one minute falls off a cliff the next. Simpy put, Palmieri in my view is an integral part of our team and should remain such if possible. Along these same lines I hope the Rangers trade Kreider. He's playing the best hockey of his life.

I think the logic here (and also with Coleman) is their value at their contracts right now is very very high. For the Devils, they would just be wasting their best years at terrific value. To other teams, they can be an integral cheap piece to their team.

It’s not like we are winning the cup next year either. Compile assets, flip those to address our main needs (quality defenders), and then if the timing is right, revisit these guys when they turn free agents in two off-seasons.

I’m still under the impression that with an improved defensive group, quality tandem goalie for Blackwood, and a hungry forward group, this team can still fight for a playoff spot next year. It isn’t like keeping Coleman and Palmieri will put us over the edge either.

 

[217 Forever]

come out of nowhere? they made the playoffs in 6 of 7 seasons before last year? and the only season they didnt make it they had 94 points? Not really a good comparison to where we are.

The two franchises are/were not in the same place but them winning the Cup absolutely came out of nowhere. They didn't even make the playoffs the year prior then were the worst team in the NHL for half a season.

 

[OmNomNom]

TG, still love you, ya salty bastard.

i knew he loved us right from his reaction here

aaaaaaaaaaaand no love for chere LOL

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

The two franchises are/were not in the same place but them winning the Cup absolutely came out of nowhere. They didn't even make the playoffs the year prior then were the worst team in the NHL for half a season.

but they did the 6 years prior, and had 94 points which would have made it in the east and they added Ryan Oreilly. They got horrible goaltending for half a year and then Binnginton came in and righted the ship. Really not a comparison i woud make with our most talented players being 23 and under.

 

[217 Forever]

but they did the 6 years prior, and had 94 points which would have made it in the east and they added Ryan Oreilly. They got horrible goaltending for half a year and then Binnginton came in and righted the ship. Really not a comparison i woud make with our most talented players being 23 and under.

And if the approach we're taking works I'll be as happy as everyone else but there are clear examples of bad teams constantly going young and doing nothing but staying bad as well as examples where the results are as you'd like so we'll see what happens.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

And if the approach we're taking works I'll be as happy as everyone else but there are clear examples of bad teams constantly going young and doing nothing but staying bad as well as examples where the results are as you'd like so we'll see what happens.

what other approach do we have?? and how does that compare to a blues team who had all their best talents in their primes and made the playoffs 6 straight times and missed once with 94 points haha

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

And if the approach we're taking works I'll be as happy as everyone else but there are clear examples of bad teams constantly going young and doing nothing but staying bad as well as examples where the results are as you'd like so we'll see what happens.

There are but the Devils would not be one of them. They have made multiple trades in the last 5 years that involved trading futures for roster players. They are just now trading good players for futures.

 

[NJDevs26]

what other approach do we have?? and how does that compare to a blues team who had all their best talents in their primes and made the playoffs 6 straight times and missed once with 94 points haha

To be fair if our fan base had the Blues combination of regular season success and postseason duds before last year most people here would be complaining our GM should rebuild and was pulling a Lou trying to win with a team that wasn’t a real contender a la the late ‘00’s.