Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part Xl

[DerekDevils30]

That's a decent sample size too

JQ is a winner. Without his careless offensive zone penalty, Zacha wouldn't have been able to score the game winning short-handed goal late in the 2nd. JQ gets it

 

[DerekDevils30]

I'm going to keep pumping Ferland's tires. Maybe if I say it enough he'll eventually come here.

But in all seriousness, I think he's the type of forward we need. Versatile, big body who can make plays but also plays with some physicality. Would compliment the skill guys we have nicely but can also drop down to play a checking role if need be.

He's had some concussion issues and seems to have tailed off a bit recently. Should be interesting to keep an eye on.

I'd be on board for Ferland. Adds an element of grit to a forward group that could use it and he has also proven the ability to play up and down the lineup as you mentioned. He did not look out of place alongside Monahan and Gaudreau in Calgary

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

We can't keep relying on guys from within and then when things don't go as planned, have nothing to fall back on. That is part of the problem we are especially dealing with this year.

Guys from elsewhere need to be brought in, goes without saying that it is easier said than done, however it is going to be one of the few ways to take a step forward without stepping backwards again. The guys from within need competition. This team so sorely needs any type of depth and competition it can get. Very little of that is present right now. Drew Stafford, JSD, and John Quenneville has been this years forwards group competition, if you want to call it that.

The Devils highest paid players are:
Schneider, Hall. Zajac, Greene, Palms , Vats, and MarJo. IMO they need to stop relying on players from elsewhere and start drafting better.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Karlsson not being able to play defense is just something not true. Anyway Sharks are #6 in the league and Karlsson has seems to have gotten into groove. It's not easy to switch to a completely different team/structure as a defenseman. Noted defensive defenseman Vlasic is -15 on a +17 team (not including shootout goals against/for) while Karlsson is +2 and Burns is +8. If that was the other way around I'm sure you would have used that against those two and how they can't 'survive' with both of them. Not that I really care for +/- anyway. Just seems to be an argument always used against him. Karlsson is so much better than any guy on the Devils' blueline and he should be the one turning down the Devils if he comes to UFA and not the other way around.

If EK is looking for a Doughty type of contract that is no reason to give him approximately 13% of next years cap. I hope Shero gives out no FA contracts that will hurt the team in 3-4 years like he has stated he will not.

 

[R8Devs]

If EK is looking for a Doughty type of contract that is no reason to give him approximately 13% of next years cap. I hope Shero gives out no FA contracts that will hurt the team in 3-4 years like he has stated he will not.

The NHL tv deal ends in 2021. The cap will probably raise a decent amount because of that -- the talent level of the team is more a paramount issue than cap space in 4 years which could be drastically different for the reason I stated above + Seattle coming in. And I think Karlsson will still be good in 4 years as well. Anyway for UFA's generally I agree, I wouldn't want to overpay/give term for guys like Calgary did for Neal, Vancouver did for Eriksson, Boston did for Backes etc. but guys like Hall, Karlsson, Panarin are guys I don't mind taking the risk of a long-term deal with a big cap hit.

There's no one in the Devils system that provides what Karlsson can. So if he was to even consider the Devils that'd be something worth looking at.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Sometimes you gotta take some risks to try and improve. Shero stayed idle this offseason, we lost some players... IMO I don't think he's staying idle this summer. Devils have a solid foundation, add a decent young player this draft and a couple decent free agents... this team could easily bounce back.

IMO he did a nice job this past offseason. He will be negotiating with one high priced soon to be FA (Hall) and hopefully he can come to terms with Nico on a longer term RFA contract as well. He will make some type of move as it may be difficult to get to the cap floor with the current group of players. I just do not want any more (other than Hall if he wants to resign here) high priced FA's over 30 that could be declining when Nico is 22 years old or so. Hopefully he can find someone in a trade or FA that we can get for 3 years or so with respect to term.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

The NHL tv deal ends in 2021. The cap will probably raise a decent amount because of that -- the talent level of the team is more a paramount issue than cap space in 4 years which could be drastically different for the reason I stated above + Seattle coming in. And I think Karlsson will still be good in 4 years as well. Anyway for UFA's generally I agree, I wouldn't want to overpay/give term for guys like Calgary did for Neal, Vancouver did for Eriksson, Boston did for Backes etc. but guys like Hall, Karlsson, Panarin are guys I don't mind taking the risk of a long-term deal with a big cap hit.

There's no one in the Devils system that provides what Karlsson can. So if he was to even consider the Devils that'd be something worth looking at.

I know I am in the minority here in that I want to rebuild around Nico and have as many players in their prime producing years when he is age 22 or so. I can 100% understand fans that want to win now. Just a disagreement on how to build a cup champion.

 

[R8Devs]

I know I am in the minority here in that I want to rebuild around Nico and have as many players in their prime producing years when he is age 22 or so. I can 100% understand fans that want to win now. Just a disagreement on how to build a cup champion.

if you seen my posts from the past, I'm on the long term build as well. Nico will be 22 in 2 years 1 month from now, Karlsson will still be good player then. I don't want guys like Panarin or Karlsson because I want the Devils to win next season but I think they can be part of the long-term game too. I don't think his game is suddenly going to drop off by then -- he's only a little more than 1 year older than Hall.

I don't believe in signing UFA's like I said if it's guys like Backes or Neal but top 5 players at their position are the exception. Getting . a guy that can impact the team like Karlsson can would be hard to do from drafts and may never happen.

it's a pipedream for the devils to even get one of Panarin or Karlsson so this is all probably moot (as is any discussion on hf I guess lol). anyway they'll have another high pick this year barring a crazy run(and if that happens it would probably be because of young players transitioning so that'd be a good thing) so that would still fit your timeline of getting good players for when Nico is ~22. All I'm saying is Karlsson should still be a significant player when Nico is 22 as well.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I know I am in the minority here in that I want to rebuild around Nico and have as many players in their prime producing years when he is age 22 or so. I can 100% understand fans that want to win now. Just a disagreement on how to build a cup champion.

its not really a disagreement, you just want to outright tank and are sugarcoating it in every way possible

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I cant believe there are people who would say no to Karlsson or Panarin if they wanted to play here lmao.

 

[njdevils1982]

I cant believe there are people who would say no to Karlsson or Panarin if they wanted to play here lmao.

we already have our panarin and he's 7 years younger….bratt's best years are still ahead of him

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I cant believe there are people who would say no to Karlsson or Panarin if they wanted to play here lmao.

Its because neither of those players get the team a top-3 draft pick

In reality, NJ signs either outside of gross overpayments

 

[Bleedred]

The Devils highest paid players are:
Schneider, Hall. Zajac, Greene, Palms , Vats, and MarJo. IMO they need to stop relying on players from elsewhere and start drafting better.

What's wrong with those guys being the highest paid players? Outside of the obvious that Schneider and to a lesser extent Greene are not who they were when they got those deals? We traded for 5 of those guys in very fair and a couple even steal deals and Zajac and Greene have been in the organization their entire NHL career.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

What's wrong with those guys being the highest paid players? Outside of the obvious that Schneider and to a lesser extent Greene are not who they were when they got those deals? We traded for 5 of those guys in very fair and a couple even steal deals and Zajac and Greene have been in the organization their entire NHL career.

Teams with a high percentage of Zajac's and Greene's that are drafted or are found as original FA'sare teams like Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc. Teams that acquire 5 of their top paid players by trade are much more likely to end up 14-16-7 and tied for last place in their division at the end of the calendar year. The Devils are over reliant on players from elsewhere was the point I was making.

 

[Blender]

Teams with a high percentage of Zajac's and Greene's that are drafted or are found as original FA'sare teams like Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc. Teams that acquire 5 of their top paid players by trade are much more likely to end up 14-16-7 and tied for last place in their division at the end of the calendar year. The Devils are over reliant on players from elsewhere was the point I was making.

[citation needed]

While I generally agree that it's better to draft and develop your own players, I'm unconvinced of this link between salary structure and where the player came from.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

we already have our panarin and he's 7 years younger….bratt's best years are still ahead of him

Lol we wish

 

[Bleedred]

Teams with a high percentage of Zajac's and Greene's that are drafted or are found as original FA'sare teams like Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc. Teams that acquire 5 of their top paid players by trade are much more likely to end up 14-16-7 and tied for last place in their division at the end of the calendar year. The Devils are over reliant on players from elsewhere was the point I was making.

So if we acquire good players for fair prices, we'll be 14-16-7 just because they weren't homgrown players? What's wrong with acquiring those players if they're good though? If you can acquire Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson, you do it. If you can acquire Kyle Palmieri for a 2nd round pick, you do it. If you can acquire Marcus Johansson for a 2nd round pick, you do it. If you can acquire Vatanen for Henrique when you clearly need defense more, you do it.

As far as Schneider for 9th overall goes, I know many here like to rewrite history, but that was a good trade at the time and only looks bad now because the guy fell off the face of the earth at a way premature age.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

So if we acquire good players for fair prices, we'll be 14-16-7 just because they weren't homgrown players? What's wrong with acquiring those players if they're good though? If you can acquire Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson, you do it. If you can acquire Kyle Palmieri for a 2nd round pick, you do it. If you can acquire Marcus Johansson for a 2nd round pick, you do it. If you can acquire Vatanen for Henrique when you clearly need defense more, you do it.

As far as Schneider for 9th overall goes, I know many here like to rewrite history, but that was a good trade at the time and only looks bad now because the guy fell off the face of the earth at a way premature age.

[citation needed]

While I generally agree that it's better to draft and develop your own players, I'm unconvinced of this link between salary structure and where the player came from.

Why are we tied for last place?

 

[Bleedred]

Why are we tied for last place?

Because our goaltending sucks.

Not because we acquired Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson and a bunch of good players for cheap picks/players.

This is one of the worst narratives I've read on here.

You're really gonna argue that?

 

[NJDevs26]

They haven't drafted well enough and haven't used enough of their cap space, but that doesn't mean any of those trades or acquisitions are the cause of it or they shouldn't trade for improvements. It's just an arbitrary marker looking at who's getting paid and where they came from.

And yes the goaltending's been bad this year, unlike most of last season - hopefully they WILL fix that improvement within long-term with Blackwood.

As far as Schneider for 9th overall goes, I know many here like to rewrite history, but that was a good trade at the time and only looks bad now because the guy fell off the face of the earth at a way premature age.

Plus the guy picked in that spot would have filled one of our glaring holes as it worked out. But that's also hindsight thinking since it wasn't exactly likely we would have picked Horvat at 9. If we'd picked who most of the board wanted we'd be the ones obsessing how that guy was a dissapointment, not Stars fans.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Why are we tied for last place?

Goaltending yes. Yes. But also because we came off of last year’s relative success tired, lazy, and without the edge that brought us a playoff berth in 2017-18. Without the work ethic, focus and hunger that, for example, are driving Montreal right now (and without their goaltending too - the comparison is instructive to me).

 

[Bleedred]

I know I am in the minority here in that I want to rebuild around Nico and have as many players in their prime producing years when he is age 22 or so. I can 100% understand fans that want to win now. Just a disagreement on how to build a cup champion.

I know, ''Different era, blah, blah, blah'' but here's an extensive list of key players from all 3 of our cup teams, that were not drafted by the Devils, nor signed as undrafted UFA's like Andy Greene.

Stephane Richer - Acquired via trade.

Neal Broten - Acquired via trade.

3 time cup winner with the Devils, 1 time Conn Smythe winner and HOF player Scott Stevens - Acquired via trade.

Bobby Holik - Acquired via trade.

2 time cup winner with the Devils, 1 time Conn Smythe winner Claude Lemieux - Acquired not once but TWICE via trade.

Randy McKay - Acquired via trade. Technically Stevens and McKay were considered compensation deals back then, but still were acquired and not homegrown talents.

Jason Arnott - Acquired via trade.

Alexander Mogilny - Acquired via trade.

Jamie Langenbrunner - Acquired via trade.

Jeff Friesen - Acquired via trade.

Joe Nieuwendyk - Acquired via trade.

How come these teams all won the cup and weren't 78 point teams? They sure got by with a ton of acquired talent.

 

[Cage Helmet]

Why are we tied for last place?

Clearly it’s becuz Ray Shero traded an average defenseman bred by the organization for Taylor Hall and a bunch of 2nd rounders for Palmieri and Johansson, as well as trading a forward bred by the org for a comparative defenseman and a #9 overall for a tender that was much better than anyone we had in the org. Team would have been better keeping Larsson, those round two picks, Henrique and just going with a platoon of 45 YO Marty and Keith Kinkaid because they’re home grown guys.

 

[NJDevs26]

You left out Niedermayer who was technically a trade too lol (thanks to whatever idiot Leafs GM gave us a top three pick for Tom Kurvers)

 

[Blender]

Of course our drafting stunk for years, no one is going to dispute that really.

As far as this narrative that top teams don't have any guys from outside their organization near the top of their salary chart, not true. The key thing is that all of these teams drafted and developed their best players, not that they don't have any added pieces, because they all do.

Washington - Oshie and Niskanen.
Pittsburgh - Kessel, Hornqvist, and Schultz.
Tampa Bay - Callahan, McDonaugh, and Miller.
Toronto - Tavares, Marleau, and Andersen.
Winnipeg - Wheeler, Myers, Byfuglien, and Little.
Nashville - Johansen, Turris, Forsberg, and Subban. (i.e. their 1C, 2C, 1LW, and 2D).
Anaheim - Kesler and Henrique.
Colorado - Johnson and Varlamov.
Vegas - The entire team almost.