Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) part V - OP warning

[135ace]

Like I said it’s difficult to quantify.

But the flow of the game changes drastically when Schneider is in net. We’re constantly on the defensive because he can’t seem to trap pucks or control rebounds. We end up getting stuck in the defensive zone so often due to it and it takes a heroic effort from someone to get the puck into the offensive zone.

I’m big on momentum in games. Often times teams come in waves because you constantly have tired guys on the ice or guys step on into a defensive position. Too many times with Schneider we’re in that position because he doesn’t control the game at all. You end up with tired bodies for extended shifts that could be prevented or shifts where half of a line is on the ice and when the puck does get out it’s 1-on-5 waiting for guys to change. For the tired bodies part, it takes its toll on you as the game goes along.

When Schneider was saving everything, it was fine even with those issues. But now he’s letting in weak goals on top of it and he’s essentially useless.

When Kinkaid is in net, you hardly ever see any of what I listed happen. But it happens in every game with Schneider.

This is a huge problem with Cory. And all of his defenders then go blame the defense. It's hard to play defense when your goalie is a useless idiot. The team plays with a lot more confidence in front of Keith because he helps control the pace of the game. There are so many times we see something stupid like the opposing team just float a wrister in from the point and Keith grabs it and holds for a whistle while Cory just bobbles it before leaving a juicy rebound leading to total chaos and defensive breakdowns. He consistently puts the D in a position to fail.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I thought he was already waived

making room for Bratt I would imagine

 

[devilsblood]

I thought he was already waived

making room for Bratt I would imagine

Think they initially sent him down on a conditioning stint? Had to waive him to keep him down there on a more permanent basis.

But yeah, hopefully for Bratt.

 

[Bleedred]

Aight, but how much weight do we put into save % if 2 of the top 4 guys from a particular 3 year stretch are pretty average?

Pretty sure you're not a big Ben Bishop guy but he is tied for 5th on that list, with Cory Crawford, another guy most don't consider a big time goalie.

Also consider this.

Price is the leader at .931, a good stretch above everyone else.

2 through 13 on that list are seperated by .005, from .924 to .919. In addition to Talbot, Elliot, Bishop and Crawford is also Steve Mason, who was tied for 8th at .921. So during this time, in which Schneid's was "great" he was .003 better then Steve Mason?

Crawford is one of the best goalies in the league. People don’t consider him such because he’s the lone exception to what people do to goalies that play on stacked teams. Most goalies on stacked or strong teams (see: Martin Jones) are jocked and hyped and usually overrated. It’s the opposite with Crawford. Might be because they won a cup before he got there and almost won a series with Darling. That probably didn’t help things for his standing among fans who don’t pay much attention to him.

Bishop had a few really good years, but just like Schneider, he’s also regressed a bit. Though not to the extent of Schneider. Same goes for Rask. Steve Mason was mostly good in Philly until his last year. He also had one absolutely huge season there and the rest were solid until his last year.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I thought he was already waived

making room for Bratt I would imagine

I think they technically "sent him down" but didn't officially waive him. Is that a thing?

 

[TrufleShufle]

NJ: We will waive Lack now
NHL: uuuhh you don't nee-
NJ: WAIVE HIM AND GOOD DAY SIR

 

[EliasFTW]

Good Bratt, now hopefully Hynes makes the right call and sits Stafford.

 

[Triumph]

Like I said it’s difficult to quantify.

But the flow of the game changes drastically when Schneider is in net. We’re constantly on the defensive because he can’t seem to trap pucks or control rebounds. We end up getting stuck in the defensive zone so often due to it and it takes a heroic effort from someone to get the puck into the offensive zone.

I’m big on momentum in games. Often times teams come in waves because you constantly have tired guys on the ice or guys step on into a defensive position. Too many times with Schneider we’re in that position because he doesn’t control the game at all. You end up with tired bodies for extended shifts that could be prevented or shifts where half of a line is on the ice and when the puck does get out it’s 1-on-5 waiting for guys to change. For the tired bodies part, it takes its toll on you as the game goes along.

When Schneider was saving everything, it was fine even with those issues. But now he’s letting in weak goals on top of it and he’s essentially useless.

When Kinkaid is in net, you hardly ever see any of what I listed happen. But it happens in every game with Schneider.

There's just no way this is quantifiable or probably even close to true. I could see it costing a few goals in a season, but no way that the difference between any two goalies is that stark offensively.

 

[Bleedred]

Can’t we send Gabriel back? I’ve had a bad feeling since the last game ended that we’d see Gabriel in on Friday.

 

[EliasFTW]

I happily forgot about Gabriel.

 

[devilsblood]

Can’t we send Gabriel back? I’ve had a bad feeling since the last game ended that we’d see Gabriel in on Friday.

If Bratt is not quite ready we might need Gabriel for that 2nd line rw spot.

 

[devilsblood]

There's just no way this is quantifiable or probably even close to true. I could see it costing a few goals in a season, but no way that the difference between any two goalies is that stark offensively.

Is their a stat which tracks rebounds allowed for goalies?

Or better yet rebounds allowed to hd zones?

Edit:I'd bet teams internally track those #'s.

 

[MartyOwns]

yeah we should send gabriel down for sure. he played in one game with less than 6 minutes of ice time, so once he’s back in binghamton we’ll start winning again

 

[Triumph]

Is their a stat which tracks rebounds allowed for goalies?

Or better yet rebounds allowed to hd zones?

Edit:I'd bet teams internally track those #'s.

Natural Stat Trick has rebound attempts allowed, but these aren't something that someone is manually tracking - it will be dependent on the scorer, assuming he's recording the time of the shot attempts correctly, and that he is counting everything equally as an attempt. This is just going to be shots attempted X seconds after a save was recorded.

Schneider was last in the NHL from 2013-14/2015-16 in rebound attempts allowed per 60 minutes played, although this seems to have a huge scorer bias because he was by far the best at home but was middle of the pack on the road. Meanwhile Jake Allen was one of the best at home and one of the worst on the road.

In the last two seasons, this didn't really change - Schneider is still middle of the pack away, and at home he's 2nd in the NHL to... you guessed it, Keith Kinkaid. So yeah, the Devils' scorer is as stingy as ever and probably isn't all that diligent at timing either.

 

[Bleedred]

If a goal is scored on a rebound shot, a lot of buildings don’t even count the first shot as a shot on goal/save for the goalie. That’s something I’ve noticed more in the last several years since Fox Sports started putting up a shot on goal counter next to the score. You’ll see the shot on goal count only go up by 1 after the goal is scored and not by 2.

 

[Billdo]

Of course stopping the initial shot is the priority. But let's not diminish the importance of rebound control either.

And putting the puck in the corner is certainly not the biggest goalie sin in terms of rebound control, but leaving loose pucks in the slot? Asking for trouble.

Correct, I was referencing a post saying something along the lines of his primary concern is stopping the initial shot, which is blatantly the objective.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Crawford is one of the best goalies in the league. People don’t consider him such because he’s the lone exception to what people do to goalies that play on stacked teams. Most goalies on stacked or strong teams (see: Martin Jones) are jocked and hyped and usually overrated. It’s the opposite with Crawford. Might be because they won a cup before he got there and almost won a series with Darling. That probably didn’t help things for his standing among fans who don’t pay much attention to him.

Bishop had a few really good years, but just like Schneider, he’s also regressed a bit. Though not to the extent of Schneider. Same goes for Rask. Steve Mason was mostly good in Philly until his last year. He also had one absolutely huge season there and the rest were solid until his last year.

Crawford was actually having a pretty good season last year up until his injury that happened against us.

 

[BahlDeep]

I really want to pull the trigger on a ticket for tomorrow, but I'm in a dilema of not wanting to pay $300-400 to watch them get blown up.

 

[Better Call Sal]

 

[Better Call Sal]

I like reading "full participant"

 

[Better Call Sal]

 

[Call Me Al]

that's a small line, but cool

 

[Better Call Sal]

Give us our Bratt back!

 

[NjDevsRR]

As per Amanda:

Hall Hischier Palmieri
Johansson Seney Bratt
Coleman Zajac Anderson
Boyle Dea Wood

 

[My3Sons]

All I know about Corey right now is that he's playing small. He LOOKS small in the net. Part of it is lack of confidence, which leads many goalies to play further back in the crease. They don't have the confidence to come further out and cut angles. Even in net mouth scrambles, he looks like his shoulders are sagging, and he's a bit further back than needed. It's just weird how that happens.

Unfortunately, it may take more than a win to break this. He's got to string a bunch of good games together to get his mojo back, I think.

I think he is probably still working back from the injury. Being cleared to play and being at your best are two very different things. Think how long it took Zajac last year to return to form. My guess is something similar is going on and we won’t see what Cory is truly capable of until the turn of the year. Hopefully he can hold it together until then.