InjuredChoker
Registered User
work ethic (on-ice) and some questioned whether his scoring would translate.
not sure if the latter caused him to drop but i saw that here on HF.
Prospect Info: Devellano comments on Anthony Mantha
- Thread starter Frk It
- Start date
work ethic (on-ice) and some questioned whether his scoring would translate.
not sure if the latter caused him to drop but i saw that here on HF.
TCNorthstars
Registered User
iDangleDangle
We Like Our Team
Sheahan isn't a 2nd line center yet. 36 points is a lowly total for a 2nd line center in a team that is trying to make an impact.
He had the 73rd most points among centers. That's including wingers like Killorn, Mackinnon, Kuznetsov, Soderberg, Tofolli and a few others.
Sheahan also has a better two way game than some of those guys such as Gagner, Ennis, Lindholm, Kadri, etc.
The 60th ranked center by scoring Was Mike Fisher with 39 points. Sheahan is a 2nd Line center; Probably a Low end 2C, but he is a 2C.
In regards to Mantha, Hopefully these comments get him going. But I for one am not hugely disappointed in his year. Adjustments should have been expected and the leg injury obviously impacted him throughout the year. Ill change my projections of Mantha, if he fails to go above .8 p/g next season.
Pros are an entirely different bag. This is why I am also not yet aboard the Larkin hypetrain. He's doing this in the NCAA. I wait for the pros to get excited about players.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I see 0 issue with what Devellano said about those defensive prospects. Said they are solid but unspectacular guys. Pretty much exactly the case.
Also I do think you typically have a decent idea of where guys will end up by age 22 and 23. The fact that none of these guys are full-time on a team with Kindl, Smith, and whoever in front of them, speaks to that a bit.
I think with Larkin it is our last chance to hit on a important position before we are destined to the lottery draft. He has done well at every level so far. Granted it has been WC, WJ, and NCAA. But really if he doesn't hit to turn out into a top line center in addition to Mrazek being a elite tender the organization is pretty ****ed.
It could very well be unfair to him. Maybe AA as well. But we are on our last legs of hitting new upcoming difference makers so there is probably quite a bit of unfair expectation to some of the current up and comers.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
My mistake. I was under the impression that both were playing the wing. I did watch the capitals a few times and I could have sworn Burakovsky was centering Kuz for most of the season.
Either way, my point still stands. Fisher was the 60th Ranked C and scored 3 more points than Sheahan.
Sheahan is already a low end 2C in the NHL
Shaman464
No u
These totals more in line with good third line centers. As for Mantha, from watching him in GR, unless his work ethic changes .8p/g will be a pipe dream.
You need to consider their respective styles of play. Everyone knew that Mantha's style of playing in the Q wasn't going to fly in the AHL. Larkin on the other hand plays a remarkably well-rounded game that should translate nicely to the professional game.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
Let's talk offense, though. I saw probably 30 Griffins games scattered across the season. I'd say Mantha played on the power play for 10 of them, and mostly at the beginning of the year. I estimate he played on the first power play unit for 3 of them (mostly at the end, when Pulkkinen was gone).
Assuming that's a decent sample (it should be), then .53 P/G is actually pretty darn good at even strength. Especially if we look at the fact that Mantha, in his scant PP time, managed to score 6 PPG, which was good enough for 3rd on the team. Pulkkinen only had 10, and Miele had 8. To me, that implies that Mantha could have scored more power play goals if he had gotten the chance to. After all, Mantha wasn't even playing on the same unit as Pulkkinen and Miele most of the time! and he surely got far fewer overall PP minutes, probably less than half as much as the others.
I think this suggests that Mantha didn't struggle offensively as much as we might think. In particular, I think if Mantha gets those PP minutes and hits 20 goals (and I think he would have!), this narrative doesn't get turned around on him this way. But because he hasn't done a good job at playing a two-way type limited role, it's somehow being turned into this idea that all aspects of Mantha's game are equally limited. and that is absolutely not true. At least offensively, he's fine.
Assuming that's a decent sample (it should be), then .53 P/G is actually pretty darn good at even strength. Especially if we look at the fact that Mantha, in his scant PP time, managed to score 6 PPG, which was good enough for 3rd on the team. Pulkkinen only had 10, and Miele had 8. To me, that implies that Mantha could have scored more power play goals if he had gotten the chance to. After all, Mantha wasn't even playing on the same unit as Pulkkinen and Miele most of the time! and he surely got far fewer overall PP minutes, probably less than half as much as the others.
I think this suggests that Mantha didn't struggle offensively as much as we might think. In particular, I think if Mantha gets those PP minutes and hits 20 goals (and I think he would have!), this narrative doesn't get turned around on him this way. But because he hasn't done a good job at playing a two-way type limited role, it's somehow being turned into this idea that all aspects of Mantha's game are equally limited. and that is absolutely not true. At least offensively, he's fine.
Agreed on all points. I noted in another thread that a lot of the secondary scoring for the Griffins was to come from rookies: Mantha, Athanasiou, Tvrdon, Zengerle, and Nosek. Too many rookies filling out your top nine to get consistent scoring for an entire season. It's no coincidence that they all finished with nearly the same point totals.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
For arguments sake, if the Wings have soured on him or say Mantha is upset by the comments and requests a trade (ie. Baertschi), what's his value?
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
The Mantha criticism is not purely a function of statistical production. The guy simply does not want to move his feet and engage. Watch him closely. Unless he is moving in transition, you will rarely see him take more than two strides at a time. I understand playing with structure and I understand not skating yourself out of position, but Mantha really needs to contribute more without the puck, which requires that he move his ****ing feet in a timely fashion. He will engage and battle if the puck is near him, but he does not want to pursue the puck for purposes of engaging in such contests or to support his teammates. He is also very slow to close gaps on the fore check.
Even if you can't find the time and space to make plays with the puck, you can find ways to contribute to your team's performance through aggressive fore checking, physical play and responsible defense. This is how junior skill players become 4th line NHLers. I think we saw this a bit with Jurco and the Wings. When he was having a difficult time playing with the puck he realized that he had to find other ways to contribute if he wanted to stay up. This is when his physical game really came to life and you noticed him more on the fore check. I was hoping that Mantha would at some point realize that what worked in the Q will not work in the AHL. Thankfully he is still very young.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
It's good we have Jimmy D to tell us how it is, rather than a whole bunch of hoping and wishing. The d-men have all pretty much come in below their hype, Marchenko didn't look all that hot in Detroit this year. Now Mantha is nowhere near the hype that was generated in the Q and the world championships.
We really have trouble drafting and developing guys from the Q. I can't recall the last guy who turned into a solid pro.
We really have trouble drafting and developing guys from the Q. I can't recall the last guy who turned into a solid pro.
SpookyTsuki
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
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Ok.... So 40 points, Only really need 50 or Sixty to say, Hes a great 2nd line center
For a young player, with Linemates in either Nyquist or Tatar, who tries to dangle around the defenders all the time and Sheahan is thinking "wtf do i do"
Not to mention hes probably the best young two way player we have right now.. Cause Nyquist and Tatar arent all that great.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Worth pointing out it isn't just Jimmy D. On the Griffins broadcast during game 5 they said both Babcock and Holland admitted to being significantly underwhelmed by Mantha and disappointed with his season and lack of progress in areas. Said he had tons of work to do this summer.
I don't think this makes him suddenly available, but he is in for some rough exit meetings. This is pretty much the group think, they are smart enough not to give up on him just yet, but Mantha has a big summer in front of him.
Bertuzzi slotting in immediately above him is also a message being delivered in my opinion.
I actually have liked a lot of what Mantha has done in the several games I have watched this season. He is improving a decent amount, his confidence is really low though and his penchant for picking corners has completely abandoned him. He just looks totally out of it offensively for the most part.
I will say virtually all of those breathtaking Athanasiou rushes start with some sort of involvement from Mantha. Those two actually have significant chemistry. His penalty minutes are way down over the second half the season, but he needs to figure out how to be more aggressive consistently. It has been a good year for his development, not all is lost, but he needs a good summer and hopefully a good start to next season will spark the player I believe he is to emerge.
I don't think this makes him suddenly available, but he is in for some rough exit meetings. This is pretty much the group think, they are smart enough not to give up on him just yet, but Mantha has a big summer in front of him.
Bertuzzi slotting in immediately above him is also a message being delivered in my opinion.
I actually have liked a lot of what Mantha has done in the several games I have watched this season. He is improving a decent amount, his confidence is really low though and his penchant for picking corners has completely abandoned him. He just looks totally out of it offensively for the most part.
I will say virtually all of those breathtaking Athanasiou rushes start with some sort of involvement from Mantha. Those two actually have significant chemistry. His penalty minutes are way down over the second half the season, but he needs to figure out how to be more aggressive consistently. It has been a good year for his development, not all is lost, but he needs a good summer and hopefully a good start to next season will spark the player I believe he is to emerge.
SimplySolace
"We like our team"
- Jun 30, 2013
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I think someone linked to kukla's korner with some audio of each saying this. I'll look for it.
EDIT: Here http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comment...nd-and-mike-babcocks-in-grand-rapids-pressers
Probie
Registered User
Jimmy D strikes again.
Jimmy reminds me a bit of an old mafia type godfather who's prone to angry outbursts saying stuff he shouldn't have.
....It was actually Jimmy D who broke manthas leg in preseason out of his frustration I'n his play. Poor mantha just hobbled onto the ice then collapsed. Lol.
Yeah usually the the comments in the wings media is usually pretty tame. I'm surprised reading this. I'm sure he will turn it around sometime. He still have an appealing skill set. A big, fast, potentially strong sniper. Could become extremely valuable which is why Holland shot down that Phaneuf package.
Jimmy reminds me a bit of an old mafia type godfather who's prone to angry outbursts saying stuff he shouldn't have.
....It was actually Jimmy D who broke manthas leg in preseason out of his frustration I'n his play. Poor mantha just hobbled onto the ice then collapsed. Lol.
Yeah usually the the comments in the wings media is usually pretty tame. I'm surprised reading this. I'm sure he will turn it around sometime. He still have an appealing skill set. A big, fast, potentially strong sniper. Could become extremely valuable which is why Holland shot down that Phaneuf package.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
Interview with Mantha on the topic here. Like Malik says, Mantha seems to own up to it. Good on him for getting out in front of it.
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/on-anthony-mantha-and-three-veries
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/on-anthony-mantha-and-three-veries
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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Not sure those are the best comments to make considering he could be a trade piece but it seems like theyre trying to go tough love on him which might help. He still shows flashes of why he is such an elite prospect, hes huge, can skate and is hard to take the puck from. Like many have said, I'm not going to worry until he doesnt improve next season.
Hes been a late bloomer every league hes played in, this off season is huge for him. Had he not broken his leg he was competing for a spot on Detroit. I'm willing to gie a bit of a mulligan on this season (although my expectations are lower now).
Hes been a late bloomer every league hes played in, this off season is huge for him. Had he not broken his leg he was competing for a spot on Detroit. I'm willing to gie a bit of a mulligan on this season (although my expectations are lower now).
